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21 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

All are worthless on the market, so not gems.  Tyrhys wasn't difficult to do and the jury is well and truly still out. In fact, what does it say about the rest of the 23s if he comes in as an U19 and goes straight in.....they must all be bang average.

Travis looks a shadow and the other one is unproven aswell.

Hardly gems and hardly through our academy.....

All of those players could, would and will sell for millions of pounds. On free deals at a young age it’s top recruitment.

Our youth recruitment team continue to find the best of the areas released players and continue to develop them into good Championship footballers for our first team. 

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Fast forwards 12 months.... 'We lost the quality of Holtby and the goals of Armstrong last summer along with the regular right back and the experience of Johnson.  It's a sad day for the club but

The problem with keeping Bennett is that although he's versatile he's just not very good at all the things he's versatile at. Get rid.

Outside of his injury patches, which is of course not his fault, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen you say. Dack absolutely delivered in his first season in this league, and was del

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3 minutes ago, JoeH said:

All of those players will sell for millions of pounds. 

And you wonder why you get clog on here....you don't half spout some claptrap.

I'll wager all three will be league 1 within 2 seasons with us.

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1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

And you wonder why you get clog on here....you don't half spout some claptrap.

I'll wager all three will be league 1 within 2 seasons with us.

Dolan is going to play in the Premiership in time. I'm not a big gambler but I'd bet a lot of money on it if anyone knows where that can be done?

Travis is blatantly at least Championship standard. He has been crap since returning but I honestly just feel he has rushed his comeback and isn't really fit. I expect him to be valuable to us again next season.

JRC we will see, but I don't see League One in his near future unless injuries or relegation put him there. He does seem a little prone to them and that could be his undoing.

We might go down, as you imply, if current abysmal management of the club continues. But otherwise those three will be playing at Championship or higher for a good few years yet. (Dolan is the only one I'm saying will play higher btw, slimmer chance for the other two).

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1 hour ago, JoeH said:

Poor do. Choose your words very carefully.

I do think that was an inappropriate post. However...I'm just going to have to ask, not just because of the name but because he is also a Data Analyst I believe, and obviously you're big on data. I'm thoroughly expecting you to say no btw, so this isn't an accusation. But the curiosity of the coincidence is nudging me to ask - you're not related to Stuart Harvey, are you?

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56 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

I do think that was an inappropriate post. However...I'm just going to have to ask, not just because of the name but because he is also a Data Analyst I believe, and obviously you're big on data. I'm thoroughly expecting you to say no btw, so this isn't an accusation. But the curiosity of the coincidence is nudging me to ask - you're not related to Stuart Harvey, are you?

Inappropriate indeed - it won’t be tolerated. 

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1 hour ago, bluebruce said:

Dolan is going to play in the Premiership in time. I'm not a big gambler but I'd bet a lot of money on it if anyone knows where that can be done?

Travis is blatantly at least Championship standard. He has been crap since returning but I honestly just feel he has rushed his comeback and isn't really fit. I expect him to be valuable to us again next season.

JRC we will see, but I don't see League One in his near future unless injuries or relegation put him there. He does seem a little prone to them and that could be his undoing.

We might go down, as you imply, if current abysmal management of the club continues. But otherwise those three will be playing at Championship or higher for a good few years yet. (Dolan is the only one I'm saying will play higher btw, slimmer chance for the other two).

I'm not sold on Dolan.   Its a long road for a young lad and I'm not sure. Lacks power, for me a bit of a Jack whatshisname...little geezer nice feet....

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36 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

I'm not sold on Dolan.   Its a long road for a young lad and I'm not sure. Lacks power, for me a bit of a Jack whatshisname...little geezer nice feet....

You don't always need power. He is pretty fast, could get faster yet, with a terrific shift of pace. Great work ethic, clearly a lot of hunger. But what I like most is he has the fastest feet, widest array of dribbling tricks, and not far off the best ball control I've seen in a Rovers shirt (started watching in the 90s before anyone wades in with Douglas etc), at just turned 19. If he doesn't get to the top flight without an injury or moronic manager interfering with his best development years, I'll be astonished.

And to head off some probably inevitable replies to this - Duff competes for fastest feet, but whilst I'd say he was a better overall dribbler for sure, I dont think even his feet shifted the ball quite as quickly, it was his reading of opponents and probably pace that made him better at beating a man. Rochina is up there for the tricks, and I said not far off for the ball control because Tugay was the king of that. However you slice it, and whichever players I might have forgot, I've not seen many that best young Dolan for those categories. That doesnt make him a better player than than them and others yet, but he has so much potential. Once he learns to read the game and how best to use his attributes, he will be frightening. He really should be starting for us now whenever fit though, and I think some people have taken the fact he doesnt as a slight on him rather than on TM's bungling.

Oh and Sparks, if you meant Jack Wilshere, a lot of his failing to fulfil the hype was his injuries. Still had a much better career than nearly all of our players will have though, power or not. 34 England caps.

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2 hours ago, bluebruce said:

I do think that was an inappropriate post. However...I'm just going to have to ask, not just because of the name but because he is also a Data Analyst I believe, and obviously you're big on data. I'm thoroughly expecting you to say no btw, so this isn't an accusation. But the curiosity of the coincidence is nudging me to ask - you're not related to Stuart Harvey, are you?

No

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7 hours ago, bluebruce said:

You don't always need power. He is pretty fast, could get faster yet, with a terrific shift of pace. Great work ethic, clearly a lot of hunger. But what I like most is he has the fastest feet, widest array of dribbling tricks, and not far off the best ball control I've seen in a Rovers shirt (started watching in the 90s before anyone wades in with Douglas etc), at just turned 19. If he doesn't get to the top flight without an injury or moronic manager interfering with his best development years, I'll be astonished.

And to head off some probably inevitable replies to this - Duff competes for fastest feet, but whilst I'd say he was a better overall dribbler for sure, I dont think even his feet shifted the ball quite as quickly, it was his reading of opponents and probably pace that made him better at beating a man. Rochina is up there for the tricks, and I said not far off for the ball control because Tugay was the king of that. However you slice it, and whichever players I might have forgot, I've not seen many that best young Dolan for those categories. That doesnt make him a better player than than them and others yet, but he has so much potential. Once he learns to read the game and how best to use his attributes, he will be frightening. He really should be starting for us now whenever fit though, and I think some people have taken the fact he doesnt as a slight on him rather than on TM's bungling.

Oh and Sparks, if you meant Jack Wilshere, a lot of his failing to fulfil the hype was his injuries. Still had a much better career than nearly all of our players will have though, power or not. 34 England caps.

No, the Jack who was here a few seasons back., I certainly wasn't comparing Dolan to Wilshire....not in the same stratosphere. 

The nobbers let him go after having him for several seasons, you are describing him as a world beater with control better than you've seen in a long time.  My view is that they let him go for a reason.  He has had a decent 6 months and that's it.  Hopefully he will develop but I'm not convinced. 

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4 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

There are websites for foot fetishist's. Er...apparently.

Dolan's nothing like Jack Payne. 

No, Jack represented his country at youth level to U20s....and his having a career.  Dolan has played professional for 6.months.  you're right,  nothing like Dolan.

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Just now, Sparks Rover said:

No, Jack represented his country at youth level to U20s....and his having a career.  Dolan has played professional for 6.months.  you're right,  nothing like Dolan.

Payne is in his prime playing for a team in a League 1 relegation fight.

Nothing like Dolan. 

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Duff was in a different league to Dolan, literally. Love the kid and think he has good potential but Duff was tearing it up at a similar age in the PL. I think end product is where Dolan needs to work on. He often dribbles into trouble, tries too much, and his final pass/ball is either the wrong choice or poorly executed. His finishing is nowhere near as good as Duffs either.

That said, the lad is still young, excites, has pace and trickery and scares the life out of FB's even without all the above. I like his work ethic, his eagerness to improve, and enthusiasm. Lots of potential there but under this lot, I fear his positive attributes will get coached out of him and his negatives will not improve.

Oh for a proper coaching team and manager.

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13 hours ago, JoeH said:

Tyrhys Dolan - Preston - Free
Lewis Travis - Liverpool - Free
Joe Rankin-Costello - Man Utd - Free

All Three now first teamers. Quality recruitment.

The youth circuit is a small world and picking up cast offs from bigger clubs hardly smacks of quality scouting/recruitment.

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3 minutes ago, Ulrich said:

The youth circuit is a small world and picking up cast offs from bigger clubs hardly smacks of quality scouting/recruitment.

Not to mention the obvious decline in our on-pitch results, which  doesn't support the fact that they are good recruits.  The club is being dumbed down slowly buy surely and some on here are happy to let the happen.

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33 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Payne is in his prime playing for a team in a League 1 relegation fight.

Nothing like Dolan. 

I'd say his career will absolutely match Dolans.  Dolan will fall down the divisions too.

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1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

I'd say his career will absolutely match Dolans.  Dolan will fall down the divisions too.

Time will tell Sparks but at the moment the lad looks much better than your view of him suggests. My only worry is that poor management will do for him.

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15 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

All are worthless on the market, so not gems.  Tyrhys wasn't difficult to do and the jury is well and truly still out. In fact, what does it say about the rest of the 23s if he comes in as an U19 and goes straight in.....they must all be bang average.

Travis looks a shadow and the other one is unproven aswell.

Hardly gems and hardly through our academy.....

Our academy hasn't produced a gem since Phil Jones. That is too long given the money that has been put into it and that it has Cat 1 status. You look at other clubs in our division who have cat 1 status and they are finding and producing better players and players who are making the clubs significant money. Norwich made £40 Million this summer out of Godfrey and Lewis. Then they also have Aarons and Cantwell who are both in the England Under 21's and would both fetch 8 figures. When did we last have a youngster in the England under 21's? Buckley is meant to be this great prospect yet he has never been capped at any youth level. Swansea have made £25 Million in the last 2 seasons out of two academy players in James and Rodon.

You look down at Cat 2 clubs Birmingham this summer sold Bellingham for £25 Million and a few years before him they produced Nathan Redmond. QPR this season sold Eze for £20 Million, Hull got around the same for Bowen last season and you even go back a few years Barnsley produced John Stones. You even look at a club like Exeter down in League 2 in the last 5 years they have produced 2 better players in Ampadu and Watkins than we have at Rovers for over a decade.

I look at the youngsters who have come through the system into our first team squad. So Nyambe, Buckley, Lenihan, JRC, Travis, Wharton and I'll include Dolan as well. I think at the most for those 7 players you are looking at £15 Million combined and none are likely to attract top flight interest. Which when you look at what other clubs in our division are selling players they have produced for really isn't good enough especially given we have Cat 1 status and a lot of money has been invested in it.

Edited by Ewood Ace
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28 minutes ago, hollowsr said:

https://trainingground.guru/articles/sunderland-make-two-major-hires-as-revamp-continues

That's our summer transfer plans....if we even had any up in smoke 

Joe - why didn't you tell us your dad/uncle/brother was leaving (I joke of course)

According to that article, him leaving was a surprise. I defo reckon there is something in these rumours about TM going against the advice/suggestions of the recruiting department. Didn't they not want Ayala? 

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@Ewood AceThat was a depressing read. But spot on. Its hard to say what the reasons are for us not producing talent that generates big sales. I dont really get our strategy of loaning players. Yes Bellis and Elliott are big talents but why not try our own instead? Especially now when we are stuck in no-mans land. Why not throw in Garett, Whitehall, Harlock or Barnes and see how they fare? Or even Gilsenan or Weston? They are supposed to be big talents. I think we have shown that our current practice of letting them play u-23 and then loan them out to poor leagues when they reach 20 doesnt work. 

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Just now, DanielMB said:

But spot on. Its hard to say what the reasons are for us not producing talent that generates big sales.

He's posted a few isolated instances.

Rovers 1st team could be half filled with Academy lads next season, all good enough for the Championship. Name me another club doing that in the Championship? Criticising the Academy is bizarre, it's the only part of the club that actually appears to function to it's full potential. 

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Godfry wasnt really a production from the Norwich Academy. Was bought from York atat 18/19, spent one season in their youth setup, the next on loan at Shrewsbury, and then featured for the first team before being sold on. Great recruitment but not their product really.

Edited by JacknOry
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4 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

He's posted a few isolated instances.

Rovers 1st team could be half filled with Academy lads next season, all good enough for the Championship. Name me another club doing that in the Championship? Criticising the Academy is bizarre, it's the only part of the club that actually appears to function to it's full potential. 

I get that he is highlighting isolated instances. Given our current place in the foodchain we have to produce income from our academyplayers. I do think we have a good academy but we must always strive to do better. Its a difficult practice but the smart thing would be to make our first team better and progress while incorporating academyplayers and once in a while helping one or two make the step up to a better league and for BRFC to make a good profit from it. Its been a while since we have made good money from sales. Its positive though that we have become better at making a pathway for youngsters to play firstteam football for us. 

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