I think there are two ways this could go. Your scenario above is one of them - e.g. Mowbray will leave when he feels like it and that will only happen when we are really struggling and he's nowhere to hide. The alternative is the Bowyer scenario. This is that the owners have had enough of him and his failure to deliver promotion and get bored of it all again so refuse to meet him, fail to provide any more funds and expect sales to cover costs, and we end up with confusion and chaos. I've got to say that I am disturbed and unimpressed by Mowbray admitting in his interview last week that he had been on to the owners during the international break and was telling them that we will be a promotion force next season. This to me stinks of self-protection and preservation, once again promising milk and honey months or years down the line and covering for failure this season. This isn't what was sold to us. Mowbray didn't say in 2018 that it would be 2021-22 before we have a shot at promotion (and surely not even the most delusional people on here would actually have any confidence in that materialising). Mowbray persuaded us all - owners and fans - that we were doing the slow build. Yet he's now had the allotted time - 5 transfer windows, healthy funds and no enforced sales. Why does he need or deserve more time? Or if he does surely this needs to be weighed against performance THIS season? Or are we already at the stage of writing this season off as yet another transition (seemingly as we are the only side affected by Covid and injuries). Next summer will see another major rebuild required and the chances are there won't be the funds or freedom we've had in recent years. Also likely that Armstrong at least will be sold. Then its just more transition as we adjust to a new style or system to fit the new players. It never ends. No. For me this is it with Mowbray. He's had more time and money than most managers could hope for. I'd rather he went soon to give us some chance of salvaging this season but if not then this season should be his last before someone else gets a go. You only have to listen to Waggott's latest interview to see that he is laying the foundations for more time for him and Tony. Thing is for all of Waggott's talk he isn't a 'Blackburn' fan. He's a very well paid executive who wants to maintain the status quo for as long as possible. Working with his mate on easy street whilst the absent owners pick up the tab and he approaches retirement. 5 years from now he'll have left Ewood never to be seen again looking forward to a cushy retirement whilst we are left with a diminished support base and another glorious shot at promotion missed.

All PNE games are now on PornHub.

Oh we are ready. Kaminski: "Oh you fondle genitals eh? Well guess what I do to them..."

Happens a lot here. Bell and Williams missed the post lockdown warm up friendly at Liverpool, but were ‘only a few days away’... didn’t see them until the new season in September.

They'll always be halves in my book renrag.

I'm with you on the clean sheet den. Problem is whenever we set up hard to beat it is to the detriment of any attacking threat. Then we'll generally throw an individual mistake in and concede anyway. Mowbray has never been able to strike the balance between defence and attack and, after over 4 years, I suspect (well, know) he never will.

Best kit in the world so doesn't matter whether halves quarters

Statistically? Defensive output? I have seen using my own eyes since Bell signed that he is a poor defender, you even said yourself that you arent a big fan, stats dont prove or disprove that, one on one Bell very rarely excels against anyone. He often stands off, he rarely prevents crosses coming in and hes been a weakness in our team since we got promoted. If Douglas is worse defensively than Bell, or indeed if he individually would cause us to concede at least 2 goals simply based on his own lack of ability to defend against a bog standard player like Barkhuizen/Barky, then he really is an appalling signing. I would like to think that it isnt the case. My issue with this suggestion is two fold. Firstly, I dont think that having pace necessarily gives a player the upper hand and in Bell's case, it doesnt seem to help him defensively, Downing played a few games last season at left back and invariably did better against quick wingers than Bell even in spite of his lack of pace because he had the intelligence and the positional sense to counteract his own weakness. If a full back is not fit for purpose against a quick but average wide man then he isnt fit for purpose full stop. Secondly, I totally disagree with making individual selections especially of inferior players to counteract the opposition and based on specific skillsets, its over thinking things, its counterproductive and it goes back to one of Mowbray's historical weaknesses in which he over thinks things and ends up tricking himself. I think it was Oldham at home when Mowbray was laughably bigging up their random right back as a danger, he ended up playing Bell on the left wing in front of Williams and we ended up 2 down at half time before changing it. That doesnt mean that against the divisions best players that I dont respect their qualities but even then, I would suggest more subtle tactical tweaks would make more sense than to play inferior players. Similarly last year off the back of an impressive win against Brentford, you suggested that we should bring in Williams I think for Downing and should change things up to try and counteract the physicality of Gregory and Vokes. We went unchanged and we won rather than compromising our own skills whilst overthinking of how to target average players. Again against Wigan you suggested dropping Downing because of Jamal Lowe's pace, Mowbray played Downing and Lowe didnt have a sniff. There is also surely the obvious flaw in your theory too, that Barkhuizen scored 2 and Preston scored 3 last season, who was our left back? Amarii Bell!

Part of a team that won the (old) First Division and the European Cup, when you had to be champions just to be in it. He was a different class, a much better all-round footballer than Dunny. Wand of a left foot. And we only saw him at the arse-end of his career so I can only imagine how good he must have been in his prime. Tugay-esque.

I agree with the overall point and the proof of the pudding was in the promotions in both of those seasons, but the 91/92 team in particular endured some shocking results and bad runs of form. Had we not scraped into that third promotion spot I think that lot would have been remembered as chokers. Its a thin line sometimes. That said, the spine of that team was miles better than anything we have just now and did it week-in and week-out. Hendry, Moran, Atkins, Cowans, Newell and Speedie. This allowed the Sellars and Wilcox's of this world to perform. I would argue that the 2001 team was the best we've had at 2nd tier level in my lifetime though.

I'm 77. ? I'm a Preston boy and my mother and all her family, my grandad, uncles and cousins, were North Enders. I remember them being promoted from Div 2 and finishing runners-up in Div 1 the following season ( I think). They had a fabulous team which contained Tom Finney, Willie Cunningham and Tommy Docherty among others. They drew big crowds then, a lot coming down from Lancaster and Morecambe areas. Fortunately for me my dad was a Rover and was taking me to Ewood to watch a struggling second division side playing in blue and white quarters. This was just before we brought in Langton, Quigley, Kelly and Briggs. After that it got a lot better. I had a friend, Bob Plunkett. I would go to his house on a Saturday afternoon to see if he would come and play out. His mum always said, "He's gone on't North End". I never learned. No doubt he would have come to my house on other Saturday afternoons to be told I'd gone to the Rovers.

So how long does he get? Should he be allowed to ruin yet another season or should someone else be given the chance to try and salvage something out of it? If the latter we need to be making the change in no more than four or five games time imo.

He's way too cautious. As others have said, starting Trybull and Johnson in central midfield does not give us the opportunity to quickly release our forwards. Always over-thinks it, always over-rates the opposition. Let's play to our strengths rather than our opponents.

14 years!

The Animals - Don’t Let Me Be Misunderstood

Where have you been hiding lol welcome back anyway

Visually though Bell isn't a much better defender than anyone. He is awful in one on one situations and most of the time doesn't even attempt to stop crosses coming into the box.

Picking what I reckon would have been our strongest 2001 side versus what I think is our strongest side of 91/92: Friedel v Mimms - much as I thought Mimms was very decent, Brad wins this one for me easily. Curtis v Brown - not a lot in this one, Curtis was very steady for us but Brown did well in that 1992 team. If I had to rely on one of them though it would be Curtis, so he gets the nod from me Short v Moran - Craig was a colossus in that side, and made himself an all-time hero on Easter Sunday 2001. However, Moran was a warrior and a fabulous footballer too. His goal at Derby in the play off semi was the epitome of him. Berg v Hendry - Difficult to choose between these two, at their peak, but here I'm judging Berg at the end of his career and Colin approaching the peak of his, so he edges it. Bjornebye v Wright - Little Wrighty was a good full back for us, ideal for that Kenny promotion team, but the Norwegian was a class act and quietly went about his business and was a helluva crosser of the ball. Gillespie v Wilcox - Wilcox chipped in with a few goals in that promotion season and played on the right quite a lot if I remember correctly? Gillespie had some sensational games though, and him on one wing and Duff on the other was an extraordinary combination of two very different types of winger. Flitcroft v Atkins - very little to choose between these two to be honest, but I'll give it to Atkins because he was super. Dunn v Cowans - Dunn was a very talented player when fit, but Sid was world class. Duff v Sellars - sorry Scottie, Duffer is the best left winger I've ever seen play for Rovers. Hughes v Newell - it may seem harsh on Sparky, but we really missed Newell when he got injured, and he came back just in time to rescue us. Jansen v Speedie - Speaking of harsh, Speedie was a pocket dynamo and of course scored plenty of vital goals as well as being viciously hacked onto the Wembley turf on that glorious sunny May day in 1992. However, Matt Jansen was a very special talent and the sort of player you would pay good money to watch. So the final score is 6-5 to the 2001 team Obviously this is all my opinion and very subjective. You may not even think that these were the best eleven of each era. Looking at the squads, the 2001 side had good cover in all areas, we all know what happened in 1992 when we got a couple of injuries......

I'm under no delusion whatsoever that this will actually happen with Swag in charge, unless the owners decide to take a closer look at what's going on and cease to be taken in by the 'we're bang on course" routine. However whilst I don't think it will happen, the day you don't think a manager who isn't up to scratch SHOULD leave is the day you should give it up as a bad job! I'm really fed up now, normally I can't stand international breaks but I took a complete two week break from Rovers news, didn't miss worrying about Moggasaurus in the slightest, and returned to it full of idle curiosity wondering if a two week break would have healed some limbs and recharged our batteries. Sadly not it seems. In that two week period I'd almost forgotten how bad in general we are under Mowbray.

He’ll go when he’s had enough on his own terms. Remember that and it will save you all a lot of pointless angst.

...and none of this false 9 bollocks either, just real men in tight shorts with real bollocks.

This present side ain’t fit to clean the boots of their 1992 or 2001 predecessors. That’s why I had to laugh with some of the ridiculous claims of ‘ToP 2’ after we’d just had 3 put past us at Watford.

No question? Personally I think a win tonight would raise a lot of questions. Questions like, 'how did we win a day before the game?'

I think the only win we've had since Souness' days was Lambert's debut when we won 2-1 and were hanging on there. A team of soft lads from the manager down. Nice, honest, play the 'right way' but in a fiery local Derby when the going gets tough they wilt.

There was definitely no Communication Breakdown with that team.

Why wasn’t the Greek at the goal? Injured, not up to speed or Eastham is thought as the better prospect? I am quite surprised tbf

Agreed, but alternately from eyes front with a swivel: white, blue halves from the front view, then white, blue from the back. The corresponding halves front and back therefore appearing as quarters as the model is viewed from above in a 360 degree dimension and could therefore perhaps be construed as quarters. Rovers, blue and white halves, end of!

Gerry & The Pacemakers - How Do You Do It

If Bell plays, we will concede anyway, he’s an absolute liability and has been for pretty much the whole time he’s been here....

Of course !

Billy Ocean - Red Light Spells Danger

Interesting @oldjamfan1, I wouldn't argue with any of those. Like you say, all very subjective. I'd actually forgotten how good Wrighty was but watching those recent clips shows he was brilliant coming forward with the ball. Shame for Wrighty that Le Saux became available, there haven't been many better left backs than GLS. We've been lucky to have witnessed both Duff and Sellars, I'd play two left sided players just to accommodate them! Some Rovers legends in those teams.

Just before my time but the late fifties promotion team must have been pretty handy with Eckersley, Clayton, Woods, McGrath with Douglas, Dobing and Roy Vernon. Most of that team played with no problem at all in the First Division once promotion had been achieved.

Jnr Walker and the All Stars - Road Runner

Warnock has achieved a solid defence almost immediately, mowbray hasnt in 4 years. He's either taking the piss or doesn't know how...either way he should just go.

He's a good solid manager nothing more nothing less but there are vital ingredients still missing. In truth promotion (and relegation) aside he's not really done anything the inexperienced Gary Bowyer didn't do. Apart from fill up the infracstructure with his mates,spend millions on single players and increas running costs again of course. Squad is similar strength wise arguably apart from a Rhodes, style is still bland and over cautious most of the time still. We have the tools to be challenging towards the top 6 but still look a million miles away. So not much has changed from 5 years ago really but of course we have to consider the intervening years. TM has had to build it back to that after taking over a mess although we probably arrived at that point over a year ago. Which brings me to what is really the remit here and why does he never seen under any urgency to push it on at all ? He could well have a job for life here.

Have to pick you up on the "quarters" Bazza. Always halves to me

We could lose 10-0 and it would be business as usual down at Ewood on Wednesday morning.

Kaminski Nyambe - lenihan - wharton - douglas Holtby - Trybull - Rothwell Elliott Armstrong brereton Subs: pears, carter, bell, davenport, downing, buckley, dolan, gallagher, chapman There will be a lot of calls to drop Trybull after Saturday but I think he will be a good player for us so long as he is the defensive midfielder, he isnt one of the wide centre mids at all

Pure conjecture Philip. If's, buts and maybes. The fact is we are just not kicking on as many thought we would. Mid table is where the level of Mowbrays managerial ability tells me where we should be. He is Mr Average, good runs, bad runs interspersed with really good play and poor play with very little consistency. After seven turgid years of that lot many thought he is just what we needed and that could well be true of his first couple of years but when we should be kicking on we are still stuck in the long grass. I just want better for my club.

Main stand! Robert Plant! Dead posh.....

Yeah maybe, even thou Pears hade a mare himself against Reading, but wasn’t dropped.

4k in Tier 1 2k in Tier 2 None in Tier 3. Blackburn will be tier 3.

The Rolling Stones - Shine A Light

We'd everything then we don't have today. A shape, a way of playing, players selected for their ability to fulfil the game plan. A method of getting the ball from our end to their end quickly. How many of the current team would get in that team ? Is Armstrong better than Speedie or Garner, Brererton better than Newall, Lenihan better than Moran or Hendry ? Atko wasn't the most skilful but he'd put our current midfield to shame for sheer effort and the ability to get up with and beyond the front men. What a great signing Alan Wright was.

Lack of manager motivation IMHO.

Barca are 11th in La Liga this season so in a way we are playing like Barcelona ?

That is what really annoyed me about yesterday. Rothwell apart, there seemed to be no real desire or urgency until Luton scored. It's as if the players and Mowbray were happy to sit there at 0 0 for 90 minutes. We can list the excuses - injuries , covid, referee etc but there is simply no excuse for continued lacklustre performances.. We had 11 players on the pitch who were more than capable than beating the 11 from Luton but we didn't really look interested. Unacceptable. Some people saying it's a decent draw because Luton are above is in the league - well they really shouldn't be. When Mowbray took over they were in league 2 and have spent a fraction of the transfer fees and wages that we have since then. We should be out of sight compared to Luton by now. According to 'transfermarket, our squad is worth £42 M to their £14 M. Slow build my arse! The problem is endemic. Venky's have no interest, Mowbray and Waggott on easy street, and under no pressure the players are coasting. Not surprising though really - it's been like that for 10 years - no pride in the club or the shirt.. Depressing indeed.

Rovers fans have a lot to be thankful to Bill Fox for. An often forgotten figure in our ascendancy but the man who laid the foundations. While the rest of our traditional rivals were applying for re-election and trying to avoid relegation to Non-league in the 80's, Bill not only made the decisions that kept us in the 2nd Division (King Kenny wouldn't have taken over a team in Div 3 or 4), but also had us a whisker away from promotion to the 1st Div without a pot to piss in. It must have been a real regret for Uncle Jack not to have had Bill stood next to him on the pitch at Anfield in '95.

This game last season kind of summed Mowbray up to me. We were really good for most of the first half, bossing play and deservedly two up. Neil made a bold change after half an hour taking off his playmaker replacing him with a lump. In the second half they physically mullered us and Mowbray simply didn't react although the writing was on the wall for many of us. I distinctly remember saying to the group I was with at half time "who would take a draw now?" All but one said they would as we had the foreboding that Mowbray didn't.