[Archived] Nottingham Forest vs. Rovers - Saturday 18th January 2014

[jim mk2]

Why is anyone surprised at this result ?

I warned beforehand the cup tie against City would drain us mentally and physically and we'd take a drubbing. I said 3-0 to I wasn't far out.

You lot should listen to your uncle jim. I rarely get it wrong.

[USABlue]

Today was unlike Rovers. It was lethargic from the first whistle and appeared that midweek had taken a lot out of them. The first 20 minutes gave me flashbacks of Murphy et all strolling about the pitch with no real purpose.

If thars the case then it smacks of poor professionalism. They had the "played in midweek" excuse in their heads before they ever stepped on the pitch. Do this group really want promotion I mean REALLY want it. Bowyer clearly still has work to do with himself and his team and the untouchable one.

Everyone is crap at their job.

Hell, even when I last went to a fast food joint it was kean. England has gone to the dogs.............

No doubt, when I lived there there was no fast food joints unless you count chippys.

[ABBEY]

The physical demands are well above what you and your mates do again this has been researched. You also don't train like them either which increases the load. Its just not the same.

i used to work on tarmac gangs, labouring jobs & a carpet factory.

I would graft all day then go and do 3 or 4 hours severe training . I won the national wrestling championships and represented GB . We did a lot MORE training than them.

there is no way on earth the modern day footballers do more than that and i dont need a degree to say otherwise.

[LondonRovers]

Bowyer has come out and said that the ref told him at full time that our two penalty shouts were in fact penalties. So why weren't they given??

Genuinely the worst and most bias referreing display I've ever seen on my travels with rovers. I'm not absolving our players or tactics of blame but it's a totally different game at 3-2 to us. I know refs make mistakes but to come out and say we should have had 2 penalties is just rediculous.

[patrickvalery]

And modest too Jim. That's what I like about you.

[islander200]

Why is anyone surprised at this result ?

I warned beforehand the cup tie against City would drain us mentally and physically and we'd take a drubbing. I said 3-0 to I wasn't far out.

You lot should listen to your uncle jim. I rarely get it wrong.

are you happy we lost?

[rovers11]

good midfield players can both defend and attack that why there are there the key word there is good midfield players it has been stated for a number of years that this is a weakness in our team/s

The frustration is we do have two very good central midfielders in Evans and Cairney but one is constantly injured whilst the other is shunted out wide. GB needs to get a right winger in that he rates and then put Cairney in CM. The only two wingers who GB likes are Marshall and King but King is poor at tracking back which is why he doesn't play that often.

GB does quite rightly not seem to rate Olsson, Nunes, Judge, Morris. He also does not rate Taylor in that position. We need to bring in a new right winger. That would then leave us with Mahoney, King, Marshall and new signing as winger options and Cairney, Evans, Lowe and Williamson as CM options.

We've also got no cover at left back and now only have 3 centre halves. If DJ, Best, Rochina and Goodwillie go then that leaves us short of options up front.

That really highlights what GB has to work with here as although we have a big squad most of the squad players are useless but we can't bring in new players unti we shift that dross and free up wages. Such a massive job he has in rebuilding the squad and balancing the books. So far, so.good though. In saying that, GB is not completely blame free because he did bring in some of those players, including Marrow and Songoo.

[Stuart]

are you happy we lost?

Even aimed at Jim that's a daft question.

[Parsonblue]

We made life difficult for ourselves by giving away two soft penalties. I accept the referee was dreadful but when the ref is this inept why make challenges that give him the opportunity to give a pen? Hanley had no need to make a challenge when he did. The Forest player was going nowhere and yet Hanley again tries his strong arm tactics and pays the price. Dann gets a lot of stick from supporters but for me Hanley is an accident waiting to happen every time he tackles in the area. I'm surprised that Craig Short hasn't got hold of him and taught him some of the basics about defending.

In the second half we had a lot of possession but didn't do much with it. Cairney wasn't at his best and looks lightweight in terms of tackling in midfield and Marshall was poor by recent standards. Once again, Andy Reid, who is getting on a bit now, simply ran the show in midfield. With Cairney and Marshall below their best we struggled to create any decent chances and Gestede got little change from Forest's makeshift defence and Rhodes was totally anonymous when he came on.

The goalkeeping position is a worry and it was clear the defence had little or no confidence in Eastwood and were very reluctant to pass back to him. I think he should have done better with the third goal and the defence as a whole simply fell apart to allow Reid to score the fourth.

At the end of the day this season was always about rebuilding and I've always thought the play-offs a long shot. This team is good enough to finish in the top ten but getting that sixth spot is going to require more consistency than we have shown thus far.

I agree with others that some of our players looked surprisingly jaded. Cairney, Marshall, Hanley, Henley, Rhodes, Gestede all looked well below their best. Maybe it's just age, but I never remember the likes of Ronnie or Dougie looking like that and they played on pitches that were paddy fields and didn't have the benefit - if that's the right word - of all the academics telling them how to play and stay fit.

[jim mk2]

Game is played at a higher pace and intensity now Parson. Rovers put a massive shift in against City. Today we paid the price.

[yoda]

i used to work on tarmac gangs, labouring jobs & a carpet factory.

I would graft all day then go and do 3 or 4 hours severe training . I won the national wrestling championships and represented GB . We did a lot MORE training than them.

there is no way on earth the modern day footballers do more than that and i dont need a degree to say otherwise.

gis a job Yosser

[rog of the rovers]

Just back from Nottingham after a cheeky post match pint at the oldest pub in England!

My take.....

Slow, slow start, Forest threatened from the first whistle and deserved to be ahead even though the penalty decision was a bit soft. Second penalty a stone Waller, but credit to Rovers we got back in it, great strike by Marshall.

Second half started well and hit the post, but as the game wore on Forest looked ever more threatening on the break and when Paterson (who was magnificent for them by the way) made it 3-1 it was game over. 4-1 was a little harsh on us in the end.

Eastwood 5 - actually made some good saves, but doesn't command the defence like Robbo

Henley 4 - struggled with Paterson and the pace of the game, poor challenge lead to the penalty. Some poor crosses too.

Hanley 4 - needless 'shoulder' charge, defended ok apart from that, but looked suspect when Henderson came on towards the end.

Dann 5 - kept his head and got forward when possible, but looked annoyed with The other defenders!

Spurr 4 - struggled with the pace and movement of Mackie. Throws ins ineffectual and crossing seems laboured at times.

Marshall 5 - well taken goal and tried hard through out, but struggled to beat Jara and some poor decisions at times.

Lowe 5 - usual Lowe performance, did ok, nothing more nothing less

Williamson 4 - looked injured, poor by recent standards

Taylor 6 - worked hard and put a shift in for the team, oddly withdrawn as he was Rovers best player on the day

Cairney 5 - some nice touches, I wonder if rm really is his suited position as he can cut in, looked a bit too physical for him when cm in the second half.

Gestede 5 - worked hard, but couldn't hold the ball up. Isolated and missed a decent heading opportunity in the first half.

Rhodes and King 5 - added some impetuous, but the final ball wasn't good enough against a solid defence.

Dunn 5 - neat and tidy, if we're going to play 4-5-1 he needs to be involved from the start as he remains one of the few who can link up the play.

Good turnout from the fans once again, loud and proud, but Forest the better side on the day and deserved the 3 points.

[McClarky]

We probably need to double our points from now to get in the top 6, can't see that happening so we'll be lucky to make it now. The way we keep conceding soft goals though we don't deserve it anyway. I think Hanley was getting close to getting himself sent off again today. When he was fouling that bloke on the left side in 2nd half he had no need to stick his elbow in his puss and some refs might have sent him off for that. Lacks discipline that lad although he is a decent defender.

[bazza]

I agree with others that some of our players looked surprisingly jaded. Cairney, Marshall, Hanley, Henley, Rhodes, Gestede all looked well below their best. Maybe it's just age, but I never remember the likes of Ronnie or Dougie looking like that and they played on pitches that were paddy fields and didn't have the benefit - if that's the right word - of all the academics telling them how to play and stay fit.

Both Clayton and Douglas had off days if my memory serves me right but it was soon forgotten when next they played.

Especially Dougie. He occasionally had a real stinker.

[somersetrover]

Game is played at a higher pace and intensity now Parson. Rovers put a massive shift in against City. Today we paid the price.

We put in a massive shift for 45 minutes against City. Then second half after Bowyer had said his words of wisdom at half time, we put very little into the game as we gave up about 2 minutes later when they went two up. Fatigue is a poor excuse and looking to paper over the cracks. If you aren't fit enough to play to high standard for 45 minutes on the Wednesdays and then for 90 on the Saturday then something is seriously wrong, considering the money they are earning and all the fitness and conditioning that players do these days.

[arbitro]

Game is played at a higher pace and intensity now Parson. Rovers put a massive shift in against City. Today we paid the price.

But the players are fitter through advances in sports science and far better training methods. Their equipment is better and the pitches certainly are not as energy sapping. Rovers will have probably had a couple of recovery sessions after the City game and perhaps some swimming and cycling. They would have had ice baths and massages and every other recovery aid known to man to prepare them for today. They will be have been carbed up and hydrated. Tiredness is a cheap excuse that only pampered football people would dream of using.

[RevidgeBlue]

We made life difficult for ourselves by giving away two soft penalties. I accept the referee was dreadful but when the ref is this inept why make challenges that give him the opportunity to give a pen? Hanley had no need to make a challenge when he did. The Forest player was going nowhere and yet Hanley again tries his strong arm tactics and pays the price. Dann gets a lot of stick from supporters but for me Hanley is an accident waiting to happen every time he tackles in the area. I'm surprised that Craig Short hasn't got hold of him and taught him some of the basics about defending.

In the second half we had a lot of possession but didn't do much with it. Cairney wasn't at his best and looks lightweight in terms of tackling in midfield and Marshall was poor by recent standards. Once again, Andy Reid, who is getting on a bit now, simply ran the show in midfield. With Cairney and Marshall below their best we struggled to create any decent chances and Gestede got little change from Forest's makeshift defence and Rhodes was totally anonymous when he came on.

The goalkeeping position is a worry and it was clear the defence had little or no confidence in Eastwood and were very reluctant to pass back to him. I think he should have done better with the third goal and the defence as a whole simply fell apart to allow Reid to score the fourth.

At the end of the day this season was always about rebuilding and I've always thought the play-offs a long shot. This team is good enough to finish in the top ten but getting that sixth spot is going to require more consistency than we have shown thus far.

I agree with others that some of our players looked surprisingly jaded. Cairney, Marshall, Hanley, Henley, Rhodes, Gestede all looked well below their best. Maybe it's just age, but I never remember the likes of Ronnie or Dougie looking like that and they played on pitches that were paddy fields and didn't have the benefit - if that's the right word - of all the academics telling them how to play and stay fit.

Parson granted I don't go to most of the away League games but I don't understand your constant criticism of Cairney whilst he is stuck out wide whereas you generally seem to avoid any criticism of, the central midfielders Lowe and Williamson.

Hypothetically if GB played Cairney and Evans in the middle (please god) and stuck Lowe out wide on the wing I wouldn't attach any blame at all to Lowe if we were overrun in midfield.

It wouldn't be his job to control the game from the wing, it would be down to the two in the middle.

[Parsonblue]

Parson granted I don't go to most of the away League games but I don't understand your constant criticism of Cairney whilst he is stuck out wide whereas you generally seem to avoid any criticism of, the central midfielders Lowe and Williamson.

Hypothetically if GB played Cairney and Evans in the middle (please god) and stuck Lowe out wide on the wing I wouldn't attach any blame at all to Lowe if we were overrun in midfield.

It wouldn't be his job to control the game from the wing, it would be down to the two in the middle.

Personally, I think out wide is the best position for Cairney because he gets more time and space on the ball to begin with. He usually drifts inside to make a pass as does Marshall. Neither Marshall nor Cairney play as orthodox wingers they roam and are therefore more difficult to pick up. Cairney is a playmaker and not particularly strong in terms of tackling. He was excellent at City operating on the right and he started today well but faded. Andy Reid showed today that you can run the game from operating wide and drifting inside and this is something which Cairney has done on a number of occasions. I don't know where you get the idea that I'm critical of him. I think he is excellent in the position he plays. I'm not convinced that there would be any great advantage putting him in the middle with Lowe. He would get less time on the ball and he would have to tackle more which is not the strongest part of his game. Today he wasn't at his best in terms of creating things but then there were a number of players not at their best.

I think when Evans is fit he will partner Lowe in the centre with Lowe being the holding player and Evans getting forward with Cairney and Marshall continuing to be given similar roles to what they have now. With Gestede partnering Rhodes up front that should be a fairly attacking line-up. Whether it will be good enough defensively is another matter. As we saw today our back four and goalkeeper are somewhat fragile to say the least.

[Gav]

Just got home after spending a couple of hours in the Sheffield Tap on route back, fantastic place if you like the real ale.

Forest simply are a much better side than we are on today’s display, yes the first goal was never a penalty, and we had a good 15 minutes in the second half, but we’re simply not good enough to go up, but if we manage to keep trading next season we’ll have a chance.

bed now

[cesus]

Personally, I think out wide is the best position for Cairney because he gets more time and space on the ball to begin with. He usually drifts inside to make a pass as does Marshall. Neither Marshall nor Cairney play as orthodox wingers they roam and are therefore more difficult to pick up. Cairney is a playmaker and not particularly strong in terms of tackling. He was excellent at City operating on the right and he started today well but faded. Andy Reid showed today that you can run the game from operating wide and drifting inside and this is something which Cairney has done on a number of occasions. I don't know where you get the idea that I'm critical of him. I think he is excellent in the position he plays. I'm not convinced that there would be any great advantage putting him in the middle with Lowe. He would get less time on the ball and he would have to tackle more which is not the strongest part of his game. Today he wasn't at his best in terms of creating things but then there were a number of players not at their best.

I think when Evans is fit he will partner Lowe in the centre with Lowe being the holding player and Evans getting forward with Cairney and Marshall continuing to be given similar roles to what they have now. With Gestede partnering Rhodes up front that should be a fairly attacking line-up. Whether it will be good enough defensively is another matter. As we saw today our back four and goalkeeper are somewhat fragile to say the least.

Very good post, I've seen a lot of people talk about Cairney being stuck out wide. I'd say the vast majority of his touches would be very central and as you say coming from wide inwards allows him far more time.

[LDRover]

Maybe but it leaves us with no width. Strikers like Gestede especially thrive on crosses.

[Al]

Personally, I think out wide is the best position for Cairney because he gets more time and space on the ball to begin with. He usually drifts inside to make a pass as does Marshall. Neither Marshall nor Cairney play as orthodox wingers they roam and are therefore more difficult to pick up. Cairney is a playmaker and not particularly strong in terms of tackling. He was excellent at City operating on the right and he started today well but faded. Andy Reid showed today that you can run the game from operating wide and drifting inside and this is something which Cairney has done on a number of occasions. I don't know where you get the idea that I'm critical of him. I think he is excellent in the position he plays. I'm not convinced that there would be any great advantage putting him in the middle with Lowe. He would get less time on the ball and he would have to tackle more which is not the strongest part of his game. Today he wasn't at his best in terms of creating things but then there were a number of players not at their best.

I think when Evans is fit he will partner Lowe in the centre with Lowe being the holding player and Evans getting forward with Cairney and Marshall continuing to be given similar roles to what they have now. With Gestede partnering Rhodes up front that should be a fairly attacking line-up. Whether it will be good enough defensively is another matter. As we saw today our back four and goalkeeper are somewhat fragile to say the least.

We are all entitled to our opinions Parson but in the case of Cairney we do not agree. As with most of the supporters I believe he is wasted out wide and needs to be in the centre, probably not with Lowe.

[thenodrog]

bet it isnt

Do you know what he is on about? I confess I haven't a clue.

[rovermagic]

Personally, I think out wide is the best position for Cairney because he gets more time and space on the ball to begin with. He usually drifts inside to make a pass as does Marshall. Neither Marshall nor Cairney play as orthodox wingers they roam and are therefore more difficult to pick up. Cairney is a playmaker and not particularly strong in terms of tackling. He was excellent at City operating on the right and he started today well but faded. Andy Reid showed today that you can run the game from operating wide and drifting inside and this is something which Cairney has done on a number of occasions. I don't know where you get the idea that I'm critical of him. I think he is excellent in the position he plays. I'm not convinced that there would be any great advantage putting him in the middle with Lowe. He would get less time on the ball and he would have to tackle more which is not the strongest part of his game. Today he wasn't at his best in terms of creating things but then there were a number of players not at their best.

I think when Evans is fit he will partner Lowe in the centre with Lowe being the holding player and Evans getting forward with Cairney and Marshall continuing to be given similar roles to what they have now. With Gestede partnering Rhodes up front that should be a fairly attacking line-up. Whether it will be good enough defensively is another matter. As we saw today our back four and goalkeeper are somewhat fragile to say the least.

Completely agree on Cairney here. Forest are the best footballing side in the league. They have so much movement and pace. Heir Jamie Paterson is an amazing player. He turnd Henley inside out Wnd made Henley seem slow. Forest seem to play sort of 4-2-3-1 which most good teams play these days. Where nine or the three are out and out wingers. But all somewhere in between numbers 10, 7 and 11. Cairney and Marshall are effective in this. But Taylor simply not goos enough as a number 10. Dunn can do this and Rochina.

Gestede was terrible today. No movement, bad heading. Useless. Henley had a mare. Spurr suffered too. Eastwood made some quite good saves. And King disrupted Forest when he came on. But we were as miserable as they were excellent. Again no one closing down in central midfield or by the fullbacks. So Lowe and Wulliamson and our two centre backs gave them time for target practice. In this case Ried and Paterson. We are 0 GD. WON 10 lost 9 drew 7. We are law to exactly average for a Championship. But still quite an improvement on last year.

[jim mk2]

We put in a massive shift for 45 minutes against City. Then second half after Bowyer had said his words of wisdom at half time, we put very little into the game as we gave up about 2 minutes later when they went two up. Fatigue is a poor excuse and looking to paper over the cracks. If you aren't fit enough to play to high standard for 45 minutes on the Wednesdays and then for 90 on the Saturday then something is seriously wrong, considering the money they are earning and all the fitness and conditioning that players do these days.

We didn't give up against City. The players performed to a high level through the 90 minutes. City won through a combination of top-class finishing and poor goalkeeping by Eastwood. It doesn't matter how well conditioned the players are a significant reverse like Wednesday after such an intense effort can have a huge psychological effect. Rovers looked mentally and physically knackered today and I wasn't surprised we lost badly today. one bit. The money they earn is irrelevant.