[Archived] Nottingham Forest vs. Rovers - Saturday 18th January 2014

[SoldierMo]

Evans return cannot come soon enough

[Paul]

Forest simply are a much better side than we are on today’s display, yes the first goal was never a penalty, and we had a good 15 minutes in the second half, but we’re simply not good enough to go up, but if we manage to keep trading next season we’ll have a chance.

 

bed now

GAV what makes you suggest we will have a chance next season? The squad isn't good enough now and the manager doesn't learn from the good and bad performances.

Why do you feel that will change?

It's weird how one week Bowyer throws the kitchen sink against Leeds, and lo and behold we win, then the next it's back to the banal, defeatist tactics of old. The way I see it, anything we get away from home is a bonus, and since it's been proven that this team can't grind out results on the road, we might as well go all-out for the win. Sure, we might end up on the end of a spanking, but what's the difference tonight?

The difference is against Leeds his job was under threat and I guess at the moment it isn't.

I imagine it will be again soon so we can look forward to a good performance at some point. Just hope it's at home.

[Jim Royle]

Well I have very rarely been to a game and thought the referee "had an agenda", I did yesterday. He just was not fair, and he had the biggest influence on the scoreline. How he can claim to be consistent in his decision making is beyond, not just in the first penalty he gave forest and the ones he didn't give to us which were far more blatant but his all round decision making. Billy Davies certainly knows how to work the ref., nasty little fecker. Lansbury knew he had the ref in his pocket and milked it for all his worth.

It took us thirty minutes to get going, that's too long against a decent team, second half we showed a lot more and at 2-1 we should have had a penalty, but no and two mins later its 3-1.

That Paterson impressed me, and Henley needs a proper rest. Id suggest J Lowe at RB, Cairney in one and king down the wing

[john.leigh]

How long til Evans is back?

From the 5 games I saw neither Lowe or Williamson are good enough. Add to this that Bowyer is now paying the price for shopping on the cheap during the last window & it's plain to see why we're struggling. Marrow Judge Songoo Campbell et al just not of the required calibre. Seems we went for quantity over quality...

I really really do like Gary Bowyer and what he's done for the club. I would hate to see him sacked, that's the last thing we need right now. He needs time & he needs to develop - but while he does that Rovers will continue to wallow in mid table

[rovermagic]

Lost in Nottingham so though I'd give my opinions...

Bowyer got it wrong... Again. Cairney was wasted out wide again, everything good that happened was when he drifted inside. If you're of the opinion that it's ok playing him there then you're just plain wrong. There's no debate about it, he being wasted and Bowyer is wrong.

Secondly Scott Dann is the worst centre half since Darren Peakock. If someone wants to give us actual real money to buy him then we're the luckiest sods in the world. Eastwood made a class save out of the top corner and Dann boll*cked him for not catching it! No wonder keepers are having confidence issues. I'll drive him to Crystal Palace, garbage.

Henley is not man enough for this league, didn't stop one single cross. Fair play, the lad Paterson is a good player but he was no where near him. A right back needs bringing in.

Worst referee performance I've seen for some time, first penalty was a disgrace though Henleys' was a definite. They were dragging our players by their shirts and holding on every throw in, corner and set peice & gave nothing. Joke.

We were sat in corner right side of goal, just above Henley for first half. And he was really useless. Esp re Paterson. 2 years ago he seemed a real prospect. But won't go forward properly now. Dann and prob Bowyer have told him not to. And he seems to not have a natural rhythm to his running as has e.g. Paterson. And defends poorly. Not sure it's a question of courage. More surely of confidence but probably also ability. Is Spurr a lot better?

[USABlue]

Well I have very rarely been to a game and thought the referee "had an agenda", I did yesterday. He just was not fair, and he had the biggest influence on the scoreline. How he can claim to be consistent in his decision making is beyond, not just in the first penalty he gave forest and the ones he didn't give to us which were far more blatant but his all round decision making. Billy Davies certainly knows how to work the ref., nasty little fecker. Lansbury knew he had the ref in his pocket and milked it for all his worth.

It took us thirty minutes to get going, that's too long against a decent team, second half we showed a lot more and at 2-1 we should have had a penalty, but no and two mins later its 3-1.

That Paterson impressed me, and Henley needs a proper rest. Id suggest J Lowe at RB, Cairney in one and king down the wing

Who was the ref?

[rovermagic]

On the first of two trains back now after an absolutely abysmal performance, I've never been convinced by Bowyer and today has confirmed that Forest were there for the taking today without any of Wilson, Hobbs and Lascelles at the back. So why Bowyer went with a 5 in midfield with two defensive midfielders (which is at least what Lowe is meant to be) is beyond me with , if your going to play 5 in midfield (which I don't like as it invites pressure on particularly away and leaves the 1 up top isolated) at least play Dunn to give the striker some support. When he brought Rhodes and took Gestede off, it really summed up his negativity as a manager. Particularly when Gestede struggled on his own as he was so isolated, Jordan was unlikely to do any better but together they would probably have caused Forest 4th and 5th choice centre backs some problems.

Also how by now Bowyer how can't see Cairney is a natural central midfielder simply defies belief, he ran the game in there at Leeds where Lee Williamson who with out Jason 'Useless' Lowe in his way also had a very good game. I just have no idea what Jason Lowe brings to the team and why Bowyer sees him as un droppable.

Eastwood may indeed be poor but he didn't make any errors today and made several good saves.

Dann a donkey I think that you have got him confused with the useless, brainless oaf he plays centre back with, who gets an easy time of the fans (unlike Dann) due to him coming up through the ranks. Scott Dann is easily our best centre back and twice the player that Hanley is, we will be a much weaker team if he leaves.

Eastwood did make several really good saves. Against City second leg Robbo made either no saves or one save.

[thenodrog]

The difference is against Leeds his job was under threat and I guess at the moment it isn't.

How do you know that?

[Hasta]

For me it's obvious Marshall should be left side and Taylor/King righr. Then in the middle Cairney and another. That way you can go with either Gestede up top or Dunn just behind. People will say we lack defensive cover doing this but to be honest playing Lowe/Williamson is giving us little cover anyway and stiffling our play.

Id rather fail to get up going for it than fail to get up trying to grind it out

How long til Evans is back?

From the 5 games I saw neither Lowe or Williamson are good enough. Add to this that Bowyer is now paying the price for shopping on the cheap during the last window & it's plain to see why we're struggling. Marrow Judge Songoo Campbell et al just not of the required calibre. Seems we went for quantity over quality...

To be fair the summer was a mixed bag when you add Evans, Cairney, Marshall and Taylor in there. Plus his hands were tied with DJ.

[Gav]

GAV what makes you suggest we will have a chance next season? The squad isn't good enough now and the manager doesn't learn from the good and bad performances.

Why do you feel that will change?

I've actually changed my opinion slightly from the start of the season Paul as I now believe we have the makings of a decent side. I think sometimes we forget that the majority of the side only came together relatively recently and need a bit more time to ‘bed in’, so I think come next season if we keep most of them together we’ll have a better chance of success.

We had a brief spell yesterday in the second half where everything came together, the passing and movement was excellent, and the only thing missing was a goal. We’ve seen glimpses of this throughout the season and that gives me hope for next season really, but I admit it could be misplaced optimism!

[OJRovers]

Even though forest are a decent side, if Spurrs effort goes in rather than hitting the post and we get a penalty for one of the times players were hauled down in the box then we could have a point, maybe 3 despite playing poorly. I do think the midfied looked jaded after the cup game.

[Parsonblue]

I've actually changed my opinion slightly from the start of the season Paul as I now believe we have the makings of a decent side. I think sometimes we forget that the majority of the side only came together relatively recently and need a bit more time to ‘bed in’, so I think come next season if we keep most of them together we’ll have a better chance of success.

We had a brief spell yesterday in the second half where everything came together, the passing and movement was excellent, and the only thing missing was a goal. We’ve seen glimpses of this throughout the season and that gives me hope for next season really, but I admit it could be misplaced optimism!

I couldn't agree more Gav. This season is about putting the foundations in place on which we can build next season. If we can keep the key players together for next season I would expect us to mount a serious challenge for promotion. Of course, the problem will be that the clubs coming down at the end of this season will be coming down with a huge amount of money which, if spent wisely, will give them a huge advantage over all the other clubs in the Championship. Nonetheless, I more optimistic now than at any other time since the clowns in Pune took over. Of course, they are just as likely to sack Gary in the summer and start the whole circus over again.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

That's the problem. They'll all roll up tomorrow morning and nothing will happen at any level in the Club. Nobody will be dreading the " hairdryer " treatment, because there's nobody there to hand one out. One or two may get dropped, but they know that they'll soon be back in the team because that's what happens at Rovers these days. Things will drift along exactly as they have done for years now. We'll win one or two and lose one or two and finish mid table or there abouts. Easy peasy.

I didn't watch any of the game yesterday but I watched all of the City game and I watched all of the game when Forest took West Ham apart a week ago. The difference in enthusiasm, mobility, movement off the ball, to mention just a few points, was there for anyone with eyes to see. I said then that they were two goals better than us and I wasn't far wrong.

Have they a better squad of players than us ? Even now I'd say not really.

What they have got that we haven't got is - organisation, fitness, running ability, a pattern of play that suits their players, a willingness to work off the ball, better team morale at all levels.

Our pattern of play is slow, predictable, and easy for decent teams to combat. Movement off the ball is nowhere near good enough. This leads to much of our passing being laboured and obvious. One player gets the ball stood still, he passes it to another player who is also stood still, sooner or later the pressing opposition player nips in and robs our player because he's moving and our player isn't.

We seem to play with six players plus the goalkeeper basically in our half, we also don't work hard enough up front to win the ball back. That means we very rarely win the ball back in our opponents half. Good teams work really hard at winning the ball back as far up the field as possible, it's pretty obvious why that is.

I was watching the old Rovers v West Ham game the other day on this site. The difference between then and now was heartbreaking. What really stood out in that game was our movement and running off the ball, that gave the player in possession lots of options.

When do we see a central midfielder get beyond the central striker like Flitty did for the first goal these days, or a wide player like Johnno get right in on top of the goalkeeper like he did for his goal.

The bottom line is we're too static all over the field. We all know were this is leading - Coaching staff at the club.

[yoda's brother]

Do you know what he is on about? I confess I haven't a clue.

fragged me as well.

proper bullkean.

[OJRovers]

You are right Tyronne, but we have been getting better at the movement, energy etc recently, yesterday obviously it didn't happen. I think it can be put down to the youth of the side and also fatigue. It might take another season to get that consistency.

[den]

I couldn't agree more Gav. This season is about putting the foundations in place on which we can build next season. If we can keep the key players together for next season I would expect us to mount a serious challenge for promotion. Of course, the problem will be that the clubs coming down at the end of this season will be coming down with a huge amount of money which, if spent wisely, will give them a huge advantage over all the other clubs in the Championship. Nonetheless, I more optimistic now than at any other time since the clowns in Pune took over. Of course, they are just as likely to sack Gary in the summer and start the whole circus over again.

Build next season Parson? The debt must be around £80m now and still rising, while Shaw has said he expects a transfer embargo. That's why it was so important that we got the best manager available last summer, rather than just go along with a coach who had done reasonably well in the odd game.

With a better manager, we just might be in the top 6 now. Some of our performances have been really, really poor and IMO, a more experienced man could have improved those performances enough to have got us to a higher points total.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Build next season Parson? The debt must be around £80m now and still rising, while Shaw has said he expects a transfer embargo. That's why it was so important that we got the best manager available last summer, rather than just go along with a coach who had done reasonably well in the odd game.

With a better manager, we just might be in the top 6 now. Some of our performances have been really, really poor and IMO, a more experienced man could have improved those performances enough to have got us to a higher points total.

That's my view also Den. I like Bowyer and he's done his best but his lack of experience is being shown up at the moment.

[Neal]

We were sat in corner right side of goal, just above Henley for first half. And he was really useless. Esp re Paterson. 2 years ago he seemed a real prospect. But won't go forward properly now. Dann and prob Bowyer have told him not to. And he seems to not have a natural rhythm to his running as has e.g. Paterson. And defends poorly. Not sure it's a question of courage. More surely of confidence but probably also ability. Is Spurr a lot better?

Seems to be either shot of confidence or just playing within himself. Looks like a kid on the pitch & plays like one. I think Spurr is better but struggled yesterday, stopped a lot more crosses than Henley.

[Waggy76]

Unfortunately , the above is true !

The division is very poor in quality and GB is frightenend of other teams ....

The Doncaster game was him all over ....We should have gone for the jugular in the 2nd half ..

[ABBEY]

The game at Donny was the same . ANY experienced manager with a pair of @#/? to play attacking football would romp this division .

We play more scared to lose football.

[Parsonblue]

Build next season Parson? The debt must be around £80m now and still rising, while Shaw has said he expects a transfer embargo. That's why it was so important that we got the best manager available last summer, rather than just go along with a coach who had done reasonably well in the odd game.

With a better manager, we just might be in the top 6 now. Some of our performances have been really, really poor and IMO, a more experienced man could have improved those performances enough to have got us to a higher points total.

The key word there is MIGHT. Yes, we might have done better with a more experienced manager but, then again, we might have done worse as Wigan found with Coyle. All you can do is appoint a guy and give him time to work with the players and develop his own team and style. It takes time and going from potential relegation candidates to winning promotion in one season is a big ask for anyone. I've never believed that our squad would be good enough to make that leap in one season. Even Brian Clough needed time to get his career going with Hartlepool so I think to judge Gary so soon is somewhat harsh. As we saw last season chopping and changing managers rarely works. Personally, in an ideal world, I'd like to see Gary given three or four years to rebuild the club. Yes there are going to be tough times ahead but this is the time that the owners need to simply support him with finance and then sit back and leave him to it.

[arbitro]

Well I have very rarely been to a game and thought the referee "had an agenda", I did yesterday. He just was not fair, and he had the biggest influence on the scoreline. How he can claim to be consistent in his decision making is beyond, not just in the first penalty he gave forest and the ones he didn't give to us which were far more blatant but his all round decision making. Billy Davies certainly knows how to work the ref., nasty little fecker. Lansbury knew he had the ref in his pocket and milked it for all his worth.

It took us thirty minutes to get going, that's too long against a decent team, second half we showed a lot more and at 2-1 we should have had a penalty, but no and two mins later its 3-1.

That Paterson impressed me, and Henley needs a proper rest. Id suggest J Lowe at RB, Cairney in one and king down the wing

When the referee gave that ludicrous penalty I said that to be consistent he had to penalise every offence of holding and pushing in the penalty area. How on earth he didn't then give us at least two penalties in the second half only he knows. I stop short of calling it cheating but I wholeheartedly agree that it was probably the most one sided refereeing performance in recent memory. He was not even handed in his general decision making and reslly should take a long hard look at himself and his performance. Bowyer has the opportunity to express his displeasure in his match report. I hope he also rings David Allison at the Footbll League to try and get some answers from the wholly inadequate referee.

However the dreadful performance by he referee should not mask the clear deficiences in our players and management. In the game itself (aside from an early Gestede chance) Forest murdered us for half an hour. We couldn't handle the movement of their front six and their running of the channels and wide areas left us vulnerable on numerous occasions. And this was with our five man midfield. I really couldn't understand taking Gestede off for Rhodes when we needed a goal. We just didn't change our almost direct approach and Rhodes was domintaed in the air. Surely Gestede should have stayed on to provide the aeriel threat and hopefully supply the knock downs.

A bad day in my opinion and I fear there may be a few more afternoons like this before the end of the season.

[den]

The key word there is MIGHT. Yes, we might have done better with a more experienced manager but, then again, we might have done worse as Wigan found with Coyle.

If we're forever in fear of doing worse, we'll only ever go backwards Parson.

[chaddyrovers]

Personally, I think out wide is the best position for Cairney because he gets more time and space on the ball to begin with. He usually drifts inside to make a pass as does Marshall. Neither Marshall nor Cairney play as orthodox wingers they roam and are therefore more difficult to pick up. Cairney is a playmaker and not particularly strong in terms of tackling. He was excellent at City operating on the right and he started today well but faded. Andy Reid showed today that you can run the game from operating wide and drifting inside and this is something which Cairney has done on a number of occasions. I don't know where you get the idea that I'm critical of him. I think he is excellent in the position he plays. I'm not convinced that there would be any great advantage putting him in the middle with Lowe. He would get less time on the ball and he would have to tackle more which is not the strongest part of his game. Today he wasn't at his best in terms of creating things but then there were a number of players not at their best.

I think when Evans is fit he will partner Lowe in the centre with Lowe being the holding player and Evans getting forward with Cairney and Marshall continuing to be given similar roles to what they have now. With Gestede partnering Rhodes up front that should be a fairly attacking line-up. Whether it will be good enough defensively is another matter. As we saw today our back four and goalkeeper are somewhat fragile to say the least.

that's my view why Cairney has been playing wide right. I have tried to explained this to Rovers fans why Bowyer has been playing him there. I don't like it but understand why Bowyer plays him there.

I fully expect Lowe and Evans playing centre mid together when Evans is back fit and Cairney and Marshall wide. I wouldn't mind seeing Cairney play the number 10 role in a 4-2-3-1 formation with Marshall and King.

I think we should stand by Bowyer for next season. we need stability and look at Leicester who have stood by Pearson. look at them now top of the league with mostly the same squad from last season.

The key word there is MIGHT. Yes, we might have done better with a more experienced manager but, then again, we might have done worse as Wigan found with Coyle. All you can do is appoint a guy and give him time to work with the players and develop his own team and style. It takes time and going from potential relegation candidates to winning promotion in one season is a big ask for anyone. I've never believed that our squad would be good enough to make that leap in one season. Even Brian Clough needed time to get his career going with Hartlepool so I think to judge Gary so soon is somewhat harsh. As we saw last season chopping and changing managers rarely works. Personally, in an ideal world, I'd like to see Gary given three or four years to rebuild the club. Yes there are going to be tough times ahead but this is the time that the owners need to simply support him with finance and then sit back and leave him to it.

exactly ParsonBlue. A experience manager might have got us higher but we could be lower tho. Look at Bolton or Wigan or Watford this season. all done poor or very poor in Bolton case.

IMO, Bowyer is the right manager for us. he is rebuilding this club and playing squad. we are 8th place and only 4 points of playoffs with 21 games to go most fans would have took this. if we can get rid of 4 or 5 players this week then hopefully Bowyer can bring in a 2 or 3 players.

[Parsonblue]

If we're forever in fear of doing worse, we'll only ever go backwards Parson.

Who's to say that Gary won't become an outstanding manager? I simply think we ought to give the guy a chance.