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On 12/05/2018 at 09:29, Biz said:

You’d have to be short sighted as “ferk” to think the reason we got relegated was simply down to “they sold all our best players and got relegated”. Do you even acknowledge the simple fact they signed off the signings, the contracts and the managers we had, that put us in so much debt?

 

Wherever did I say our relegation  was simply down to one factor? Unless that factor is Venkys of course. The over-arching factor that's at the bottom of everything over the last 7/8 years. However, diluting the squad every year and selling our 2 centre-backs to Premier League clubs just before kick-off was surely significant?

As for the sentence in bold, what does it even mean? Am I being asked to agree that because of all sorts of decisions taken since Venkys bought the club, a massive debt has arisen which Venkys are responsible for?

Of course I acknowledge that, how could I do otherwise? I just don't see what point you are trying to make. It'll be opposite to mine, I'm aware of that!

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Jesus Christ, give the girl a break. Who knows what she's like? Having her character assassinated and reasons for being with her fella by a bunch of internet nobodies because of how she looks, pretty

There should be no excuses and no cliches imo. The window so far has been...underwhelming.  Do I think we’d go down with this squad? No? Is it better than the one which went down? Yes, I believe

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3 hours ago, Mercer said:

If that's what you believe/hope then fine.

Sadly, I think you will be disappointed.  Heads get turned, folk become unsettled - it's there in everyday life.  I recruited a new member of staff this week, wined and dined her, sold her a deal and over she comes in 3 months' time - it's life Chaddy!

Don’t tell the wife then pal ?

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Bolton totally ran away with League One  and were lucky not to return to it.immediately...THe e goal fest they enjoyed in Div 1 dried up  in face of better defenders..or was it they cashed in on their Dack like players?....Hope we keep our little diamond..Rhodes need rescuing..anyone like to see him back..

 

 

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13 minutes ago, JC4LAB said:

Bolton totally ran away with League One  and were lucky not to return to it.immediately...THe e goal fest they enjoyed in Div 1 dried up  in face of better defenders..or was it they cashed in on their Dack like players?....Hope we keep our little diamond..Rhodes need rescuing..anyone like to see him back..

 

 

They didnt strengthen and also sold their star player Gary Madine to Cardiff. Only brought in half a dozen out of contract players.

This is why I really hope we are given at least a little bit of money to invest and also keep hold of our better players.

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2 hours ago, JC4LAB said:

Bolton totally ran away with League One  and were lucky not to return to it.immediately...THe e goal fest they enjoyed in Div 1 dried up  in face of better defenders..or was it they cashed in on their Dack like players?....Hope we keep our little diamond..Rhodes need rescuing..anyone like to see him back..

 

 

I thought they only went up in the last week or two? 

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I'm of the view that the step up isn't massive. If you look at how ourselves and Wigan have run away with this league, reaching 96 points+ each, winning games on a regular basis even when not playing well, that tells me that we've been a level above in this league, thanks partly to retaining the core of squads from the Championship. I think even with limited additions and investment we should compete in the Championship. It might take significantly more to think about threatening the top end, but again there's plenty of evidence to suggest that money and investment is a side-issue - Norwich, Hull, Forest, Sheffield Wed, Sunderland - all struggled last season despite big budgets or parachute money whilst Brentford, Millwall, PNE, Cardiff all performed well without.

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10 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I aint interested about your new staff you recruited. You dont work in Football. 

I wont be disappoint as Dack going anyway. 

Who buying him tho? 

You kept selling Rhodes all the time and it never happened until Lambert came in. 

Sessegon wont be going anywhere. 100 million pounds is what Fulham quote Man Utd according to the Sun. 

Fulham wont be buying Dack. 

Not directly, however, through my work, I have some involvement in a number of sports including football.  As regards recruitment, I was just trying to demonstrate how life works in the real world including football - it's called 'tapping up' and is a facet of networking.

Neither you nor I can influence whether Dack leaves or not.  The difference is you seem to think that if you keep saying on the MB a certain player, in this case Dack, isn't going anywhere then it wont happen.  There is a difference between wishful thinking and reality.

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2 hours ago, JC4LAB said:

Bolton totally ran away with League One  and were lucky not to return to it.immediately...THe e goal fest they enjoyed in Div 1 dried up  in face of better defenders..or was it they cashed in on their Dack like players?....Hope we keep our little diamond..Rhodes need rescuing..anyone like to see him back..

 

 

They had to win last game to get up don't think that is running away with it

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I think the Bolton comparison is quite valid.

If we don't make 5 or 6 quality signings, IMV, we will be in exactly the same position as Bolton were this season.

Got dragged along to see Bolton a couple of times this season with friends and they knew from last season they were going to struggle. 

Stating the obvious, there is a huge gulf between League 1 and the Championship and we need to face up to it that most of our current first choices will, IMV, struggle next season as they did at times this season.  Mulgrew and Dack and to a lesser degree Raya and Graham pulled us through this season - add Lenihan to the mix, and maybe Bennett, and after that I think there's precious little left in our squad. 

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9 hours ago, 47er said:

Wherever did I say our relegation  was simply down to one factor? Unless that factor is Venkys of course. The over-arching factor that's at the bottom of everything over the last 7/8 years. However, diluting the squad every year and selling our 2 centre-backs to Premier League clubs just before kick-off was surely significant?

As for the sentence in bold, what does it even mean? Am I being asked to agree that because of all sorts of decisions taken since Venkys bought the club, a massive debt has arisen which Venkys are responsible for?

Of course I acknowledge that, how could I do otherwise? I just don't see what point you are trying to make. It'll be opposite to mine, I'm aware of that!

If you are searching for a pattern, look no further than the two close seasons of 2011 and 2016. A relegation script...

You could be forgiven for thinking it was deliberate.....Certainly, I have forgiven myself for those thoughts!

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19 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Not directly, however, through my work, I have some involvement in a number of sports including football.  As regards recruitment, I was just trying to demonstrate how life works in the real world including football - it's called 'tapping up' and is a facet of networking.

Neither you nor I can influence whether Dack leaves or not.  The difference is you seem to think that if you keep saying on the MB a certain player, in this case Dack, isn't going anywhere then it wont happen.  There is a difference between wishful thinking and reality.

Yeah but wasn't it through your work contacts you heard Jordan Rhodes was joining Bolton?then Wigan?That the Venkys where close to selling up?That Raya was on joining a premier league club, wasn't it West Ham you said?

Ever think that your "contacts " may be winding you up?If they exist that is

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Biggest gulf will be the wages when your paying 5 or 6 grand per week for good league 1 players then 10k plus for bog standard championship players or injury prone mercenaries.

Akpan. Guthrie, Delfonso, Brown and the rest, how much were they on ?  

This seasons recruitment is going to have to be very smart indeed although Bolton got wage capped at what 4.5 per week or something & managed it ?  Only just survived though.

 

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38 minutes ago, Mercer said:

I think the Bolton comparison is quite valid.

If we don't make 5 or 6 quality signings, IMV, we will be in exactly the same position as Bolton were this season.

Got dragged along to see Bolton a couple of times this season with friends and they knew from last season they were going to struggle. 

Stating the obvious, there is a huge gulf between League 1 and the Championship and we need to face up to it that most of our current first choices will, IMV, struggle next season as they did at times this season.  Mulgrew and Dack and to a lesser degree Raya and Graham pulled us through this season - add Lenihan to the mix, and maybe Bennett, and after that I think there's precious little left in our squad. 

I feel like your doom mongering is quite baseless to be honest.

For one, Bolton got 10 less points than we did, none of their players got into double figures in league goals, unlike Dack, Graham and Mulgrew, who along with Lenihan, Smallwood and Bennett make a core of players that I feel can definitely make the step up. (most of whom have proved they can in the past) Bolton sold their best player and main striker mid way through the season and still stayed up to be fair. If we sell Dack and bring in a 38 year old replacement then maybe youll have a point.

There is also no basis for Dack leaving, albeit im not as naive as chaddy in thinking hes unsellable, but im sure it would take a much bigger bid than you are suggesting and I also dont get the impression that hes got itchy feet to leave as you seem to be insistent on implying.

I also think he has the make up to be far more productive Championship player than you give him credit for. Yes hes not the quickest, plenty of top Championship players arent, Cairney, Snodgrass, Neves, Maddison to name a few. Dack can beat players with ease due to his close control and the way that he puts his body between man and ball, hes an intelligent player, can I say he will definitely stay or that he will definitely make the step up? No but I feel like you are writing him off already to provoke a reaction, rather than based on anything tangible.

Cant see us being near the play offs or anything silly, and we may be in trouble if we dont add a few, but theres no need for the doom/winding people up just yet.

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47 minutes ago, Mercer said:

I think the Bolton comparison is quite valid.

If we don't make 5 or 6 quality signings, IMV, we will be in exactly the same position as Bolton were this season.

Got dragged along to see Bolton a couple of times this season with friends and they knew from last season they were going to struggle. 

Stating the obvious, there is a huge gulf between League 1 and the Championship and we need to face up to it that most of our current first choices will, IMV, struggle next season as they did at times this season.  Mulgrew and Dack and to a lesser degree Raya and Graham pulled us through this season - add Lenihan to the mix, and maybe Bennett, and after that I think there's precious little left in our squad. 

But you are comparing them to the teams at the top of the division. As a starting point we have to be better than three teams at the bottom of the division. I would suggest Bolton, Wigan and whoever wins the play offs as a start. 

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15 minutes ago, rigger said:

But you are comparing them to the teams at the top of the division. As a starting point we have to be better than three teams at the bottom of the division. I would suggest Bolton, Wigan and whoever wins the play offs as a start. 

I think QPR, Reading and a Mick McCarthy-less Ipswich may struggle next season, based on current personnel. Bolton for sure too. Hard to judge I suppose pre-summer transfer window.

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1 hour ago, Mercer said:

Not directly, however, through my work, I have some involvement in a number of sports including football.  As regards recruitment, I was just trying to demonstrate how life works in the real world including football - it's called 'tapping up' and is a facet of networking.

Neither you nor I can influence whether Dack leaves or not.  The difference is you seem to think that if you keep saying on the MB a certain player, in this case Dack, isn't going anywhere then it wont happen.  There is a difference between wishful thinking and reality.

Mercer, I'm sorry to say this but I dont believe you at all. You kept posting Rhodes was leaving or being sold, Venkys will be selling and none of it was true. 

And you think by posting that Dack is going and his head will be turn then it will come true(for once). 

I have faith in Mowbray and he will keep his best players. Venkys are meeting Mowbray face to face and they only do that to people they trust and believe in. 

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13 hours ago, Mercer said:

Hey Chaddy, when Shearer left Rovers in 1996 my kids cried and I also shed a tear so enough of that cr@p.

Sadly, too many are in football to make a fast buck and I see this happening over Dack.  IMV, his head will be turned, there will be interested clubs (but not at nonsensical fees speculated of £8million upwards) and as such, it would be no surprise to me to see Dack leave in a deal with add ons in the £3 to £4million range.  I think it's 80% certain Dack will leave (think he'll become unsettled)  and if and when he does, I will elaborate further. 

That makes me feel much better. With Mercer's forecasting skills in mind it is therefore 80% certain that Dack will stay.

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11 hours ago, Tom said:

I don’t think money will be our concern with Dack, it’s the bright lights of Essex calling him that is more likely to be troublesome.

Hope not for ours and his sake as you could see that side of his life derailing his career if he isn’t careful.

 

Plenty of bright lights in Manchester too.

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1 hour ago, Mercer said:

I think the Bolton comparison is quite valid.

If we don't make 5 or 6 quality signings, IMV, we will be in exactly the same position as Bolton were this season.

Got dragged along to see Bolton a couple of times this season with friends and they knew from last season they were going to struggle. 

Stating the obvious, there is a huge gulf between League 1 and the Championship and we need to face up to it that most of our current first choices will, IMV, struggle next season as they did at times this season.  Mulgrew and Dack and to a lesser degree Raya and Graham pulled us through this season - add Lenihan to the mix, and maybe Bennett, and after that I think there's precious little left in our squad. 

Did Bolton make 5 or 6 quality signings last summer in the championship? 

The gulf isn't big between Championship and league 1. Look at Millwall and Sheff Utd as examples for clubs that have done well this season and not spend millions after millions

35 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

 

There is also no basis for Dack leaving, albeit im not as naive as chaddy in thinking hes unsellable, but im sure it would take a much bigger bid than you are suggesting and I also dont get the impression that hes got itchy feet to leave as you seem to be insistent on implying.

Cant see us being near the play offs or anything silly, and we may be in trouble if we dont add a few, but theres no need for the doom/winding people up just yet.

who naïve? where did I say he unsellable? please show me where I have say this. You keep making up comments Ive never said again roversfan99, please stop it

I said I don't see us selling him as he is key part of team and Mowbray long term plans

12 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I think QPR, Reading and a Mick McCarthy-less Ipswich may struggle next season, based on current personnel. Bolton for sure too. Hard to judge I suppose pre-summer transfer window.

we don't know who going to strong next season until we see clubs transfer business over the season. 

Will Hurst be install as Ipswich as the current betting suggest or how well will McClaren(if appoint) do at QPR

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Anybody who thinks the Divisional Player of the Year won't attract interest from clubs further up the food chain must also believe in Santa Claus. In case anyone has forgotten I class even the likes of Sunderland as being further up the food chain for example.

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Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Anybody who thinks the Divisional Player of the Year won't attract interest from clubs further up the food chain must also believe in Santa Claus. In case anyone has forgotten I class even the likes of Sunderland as being further up the food chain for example.

Depends on what you class as the 'food chain'. Premier League clubs yes, and I'd have no problem with departures to those, but which Championship clubs are we considering as 'higher up the food chain'? 

In my view none of them should be. Yes some are armed with parachute money but that doesn't inevitably mean we will lose our best players to them. I worry we're getting into a 'them and us' mindset of us being smaller fry and others as 'bigger fish' who can come along and pluck our best players.

Of course it all comes from what approach our owners take, if they want us to be a selling club who loses better players to rivals then that's their decision, the alternative is we fight tooth and nail to compete with these clubs and don't entertain approaches from them for our players.

The evidence of recent years with Rhodes, Cairney, Marshall, Hanley and Duffy is that they will entertain such attention, but i don't accept it is inevitable or unavoidable. Plenty of non-parachute clubs fight to keep their talent and succeed in doing so.

Sunderland aren't higher up the food chain and if people running this club believe that to be so then we're in trouble.

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Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Anybody who thinks the Divisional Player of the Year won't attract interest from clubs further up the food chain must also believe in Santa Claus. In case anyone has forgotten I class even the likes of Sunderland as being further up the food chain for example.

has no-one even said that Dack attract interest from other clubs? I don't see any club paying what we would want. 3 out of 4 clubs that don't get promotion are going to have cutbacks happening. Do I see Stoke, Swansea or WBA coming in for him, not really but depends who the managers are of the 2 clubs who are after a new manager. 

Sunderland? really? massive mess there, ownership takeover still not sorted, no manager in either. could be playing catch up again there again like last season when Grayson was appointed late in the summer. Sheff Utd manager Wilder the current bookies favourite but I think he would be daft to move there. good manager and would be a good appointment for Swansea if he fits what they want

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