Jon Dahl Tomasson - Officially No Longer Our Head Coach

[DeeCee]

4 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

Being condescending doesn't do you many favours. We all pay our money, watch the games, and have the capability to form our own opinions. Yours is no more valid or insightful than anyone else's. I suggest you accept that you have your own opinion, others will have theirs, and personally attacking or belittling other people for being different to your own view achieves nothing. 

It's easy enough to state your views from your own perspective without bringing "excitable supporters" "navel gazing" etc into the conversation. No one reads that and think it adds any greater value to your commentary, it only diminishes what you are trying to say.

Conquer and divide 

[SuperBrfc]

I recall listening to a Broughton interview in the summer on some podcast, where he was talking about his football philosophy and how he operates.

He stated, in clear terms, the importance of owners "holding their nerve" and sticking with a project even if things are going wrong.

He said words to the effect of it being very easy for owners to change tack, or to make rash decisions or to scrap 'projects' altogether when the situation looks bleak. His advice to owners in that scenario, according to him, would be to stick with it, things will get better and you'll see the fruits later.

If anybody is hoping that Broughton will step in at some point if things become even worse for us these next few months and recommend a change either in manager, system, the project etc, you will be left disappointed.

He will likely be doing the exact opposite, I.e telling the likes of Suhail to stick with the process, based on that interview that I heard.

Swag already doesn't give a shit, he won't be recommending anything to anybody, unless we become stuck in the bottom three.

We must be the only club in England where results mean nothing and where "winning" has a different definition to that which everybody else understands. A reminder of what we're dealing with:

GB: "So, I think we need to have a definition of what winning looks like for Blackburn Rovers, and for me that's very clear. Clearly, it's just improving our performance every single day and in every single month and every single year".

 

[tomphil]

Well the last bit isn't happening it's going the opposite way and will probably still keep doing so unless the gaffer changes tack or we somehow get several half decent bods in.

[Mattyblue]

’Improving performance’ at this odd club could well mean improved ‘metrics’ like minutes on the pitch for academy grads, selling said players on for a profit etc.

Not, you know, the traditional definition of ‘improved performance’, I.e winning games of football and finishing in a higher position in that thing called a ‘league table’.

[NeilInBristol]

1 hour ago, SuperBrfc said:

I recall listening to a Broughton interview in the summer on some podcast, where he was talking about his football philosophy and how he operates.

He stated, in clear terms, the importance of owners "holding their nerve" and sticking with a project even if things are going wrong.

He said words to the effect of it being very easy for owners to change tack, or to make rash decisions or to scrap 'projects' altogether when the situation looks bleak. His advice to owners in that scenario, according to him, would be to stick with it, things will get better and you'll see the fruits later.

If anybody is hoping that Broughton will step in at some point if things become even worse for us these next few months and recommend a change either in manager, system, the project etc, you will be left disappointed.

He will likely be doing the exact opposite, I.e telling the likes of Suhail to stick with the process, based on that interview that I heard.

Swag already doesn't give a shit, he won't be recommending anything to anybody, unless we become stuck in the bottom three.

We must be the only club in England where results mean nothing and where "winning" has a different definition to that which everybody else understands. A reminder of what we're dealing with:

GB: "So, I think we need to have a definition of what winning looks like for Blackburn Rovers, and for me that's very clear. Clearly, it's just improving our performance every single day and in every single month and every single year".

 

Gb is chatting bs 

[SuperBrfc]

1 hour ago, tomphil said:

Well the last bit isn't happening it's going the opposite way and will probably still keep doing so unless the gaffer changes tack or we somehow get several half decent bods in.

The messed up thing is, JDT is stubbornly sticking to this style of football, regardless of results, because he/they feel it is the best way to "increase player value". He said as much himself last season.

I feel he's stuck between a rock and a hard place. His remit is to add player value and he's trying to meet that by playing this tippy tappy football. However, he also wants to win, just like all of us here want for the club, and I think he feels there's no other way to do that with this squad, with it's lack of depth, but to just attack and be quite open.

It's naive at times, stubborn and crazy at times, and he needs to be more pragmatic in certain games, but I genuinely think he's trying to balance "adding player value" against "I want to win football matches.

He should not be having to worry about adding player value. That is bullshit set down by clowns who know nothing about football. On the advice of who, is my question. Which other manager in the top 2 Divisions is having to concern himself with increasing player value? It's bollocks.

The balancing act is going badly wrong at the moment, but the losers above him are fine with the situation because they only value the former (increasing player value) and care not about the latter (winning matches).

[USABlue]

Lose again on Monday and questions may start coming from afar

[SuperBrfc]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

’Improving performance’ at this odd club could well mean improved ‘metrics’ like minutes on the pitch for academy grads, selling said players on for a profit etc.

Not, you know, the traditional definition of ‘improved performance’, I.e winning games of football and finishing in a higher position in that thing called a ‘league table’.

Exactly what I'm thinking. I base that on what I have heard Broughton say in various interviews. Him talking about the 'R rate' being one measure of success, the number of Academy players in the first team another, the number of minutes they play being another. Developing players and selling them on will undoubtedly be a part of "winning" too ( for him and his superiors)

No doubt that whilst most of us on here are analysing the games, airing concerns about results/performances and discussing issues at the club, Broughton and Co will be nonplussed and will be taking things such as:

A good 70 minutes in the legs for young Jake.

Another 90 minutes for Adam.

Good 70 minute run out for Semir

And more...

As small victories.

Winning football matches, though? Making a play off push? Even having a thought about promotion?

Nah, mate. You're entitled and need to get real.

[NeilInBristol]

7 hours ago, SuperBrfc said:

Exactly what I'm thinking. I base that on what I have heard Broughton say in various interviews. Him talking about the 'R rate' being one measure of success, the number of Academy players in the first team another, the number of minutes they play being another. Developing players and selling them on will undoubtedly be a part of "winning" too ( for him and his superiors)

No doubt that whilst most of us on here are analysing the games, airing concerns about results/performances and discussing issues at the club, Broughton and Co will be nonplussed and will be taking things such as:

A good 70 minutes in the legs for young Jake.

Another 90 minutes for Adam.

Good 70 minute run out for Semir

And more...

As small victories.

Winning football matches, though? Making a play off push? Even having a thought about promotion?

Nah, mate. You're entitled and need to get real.

Yeh I recall that. What's this r rate? 

I don't know how GB etc can compare losing with mins. Who cares if Samir as 5full games if champs experience in a season if he hasn't scored and we keep losing. Who will be interested in buying Samir? A 3rd division club? I guess January and summer sales will give us the reason why they keep going on about developing players..

Has JDT mentioned anything other than " player development" ?

[joey_big_nose]

8 hours ago, SuperBrfc said:

Exactly what I'm thinking. I base that on what I have heard Broughton say in various interviews. Him talking about the 'R rate' being one measure of success, the number of Academy players in the first team another, the number of minutes they play being another. Developing players and selling them on will undoubtedly be a part of "winning" too ( for him and his superiors)

No doubt that whilst most of us on here are analysing the games, airing concerns about results/performances and discussing issues at the club, Broughton and Co will be nonplussed and will be taking things such as:

A good 70 minutes in the legs for young Jake.

Another 90 minutes for Adam.

Good 70 minute run out for Semir

And more...

As small victories.

Winning football matches, though? Making a play off push? Even having a thought about promotion?

Nah, mate. You're entitled and need to get real.

Personally I dont have too much of an issue with that - the better we get at developing and selling on players the more financially independent we can be and that makes getting rid of Venkys feasible. As long as we cant balance the books we're tied to them.

But obviously we need to find a way to continue to develop players etc without giving amateur hour goals away.

[martonrover]

2 hours ago, NeilInBristol said:

Has JDT mentioned anything other than " player development" ?

JDT is more ambitious, but is playing along with the "developing young players" narrative, because his only other option is to resign.

[chaddyrovers]

2 minutes ago, martonrover said:

JDT is more ambitious, but is playing along with the "developing young players" narrative, because his only other option is to resign.

JDT is very happy to developing players for the first team like he did with Ash Phillips by playing him in his 3rd game. Plus Wharton and Garrett. 

Yes JDT is ambitious but he is happy to develop young talent players 

[Wheelton Blue]

6 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

JDT is very happy to developing players for the first team like he did with Ash Phillips by playing him in his 3rd game. Plus Wharton and Garrett. 

Yes JDT is ambitious but he is happy to develop young talent players 

What did he have for his tea last night? 🙂

[tomphil]

10 hours ago, SuperBrfc said:

The messed up thing is, JDT is stubbornly sticking to this style of football, regardless of results, because he/they feel it is the best way to "increase player value". He said as much himself last season.

I feel he's stuck between a rock and a hard place. His remit is to add player value and he's trying to meet that by playing this tippy tappy football. However, he also wants to win, just like all of us here want for the club, and I think he feels there's no other way to do that with this squad, with it's lack of depth, but to just attack and be quite open.

It's naive at times, stubborn and crazy at times, and he needs to be more pragmatic in certain games, but I genuinely think he's trying to balance "adding player value" against "I want to win football matches.

He should not be having to worry about adding player value. That is bullshit set down by clowns who know nothing about football. On the advice of who, is my question. Which other manager in the top 2 Divisions is having to concern himself with increasing player value? It's bollocks.

The balancing act is going badly wrong at the moment, but the losers above him are fine with the situation because they only value the former (increasing player value) and care not about the latter (winning matches).

Well yes the better the team and it's progress the better chance of the good players being worth more.

If you're looking to make young and average players attractive to other middling sides in your division though, well......

[chaddyrovers]

15 minutes ago, Wheelton Blue said:

What did he have for his tea last night? 🙂

😕

[tomphil]

10 hours ago, SuperBrfc said:

Exactly what I'm thinking. I base that on what I have heard Broughton say in various interviews. Him talking about the 'R rate' being one measure of success, the number of Academy players in the first team another, the number of minutes they play being another. Developing players and selling them on will undoubtedly be a part of "winning" too ( for him and his superiors)

No doubt that whilst most of us on here are analysing the games, airing concerns about results/performances and discussing issues at the club, Broughton and Co will be nonplussed and will be taking things such as:

A good 70 minutes in the legs for young Jake.

Another 90 minutes for Adam.

Good 70 minute run out for Semir

And more...

As small victories.

Winning football matches, though? Making a play off push? Even having a thought about promotion?

Nah, mate. You're entitled and need to get real.

That's exactly how they look at it imo.

Squad half full of academy grads, one of them probably worth 5 mill say and another worth 4m, a few you could sell now for a million if you needed.

All book value and 'profit' potential seeing as no fees were paid so nothing is owing.

Bankers look at that and say yes we are satisfied to keep your overdraft at 10 million due to 'book value'.

[RevidgeBlue]

12 hours ago, SuperBrfc said:

I recall listening to a Broughton interview in the summer on some podcast, where he was talking about his football philosophy and how he operates.

He stated, in clear terms, the importance of owners "holding their nerve" and sticking with a project even if things are going wrong.

He said words to the effect of it being very easy for owners to change tack, or to make rash decisions or to scrap 'projects' altogether when the situation looks bleak. His advice to owners in that scenario, according to him, would be to stick with it, things will get better and you'll see the fruits later.

If anybody is hoping that Broughton will step in at some point if things become even worse for us these next few months and recommend a change either in manager, system, the project etc, you will be left disappointed.

He will likely be doing the exact opposite, I.e telling the likes of Suhail to stick with the process, based on that interview that I heard.

Swag already doesn't give a shit, he won't be recommending anything to anybody, unless we become stuck in the bottom three.

We must be the only club in England where results mean nothing and where "winning" has a different definition to that which everybody else understands. A reminder of what we're dealing with:

GB: "So, I think we need to have a definition of what winning looks like for Blackburn Rovers, and for me that's very clear. Clearly, it's just improving our performance every single day and in every single month and every single year".

 

This roughly equates to the Mowbray "journey".

Keep the faith - it'll all come good at some unspecified point years into the future. When everyone eventually wakes up and smells the coffee and realise it hasn't worked it doesn't matter by then. I've stuffed my pockets full of cash and can sail off merrily into the sunset.

Blackburn who?

[Paul Mellelieu]

17 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

This roughly equates to the Mowbray "journey".

Keep the faith - it'll all come good at some unspecified point years into the future. When everyone eventually wakes up and smells the coffee and realise it hasn't worked it doesn't matter by then. I've stuffed my pockets full of cash and can sail off merrily into the sunset.

Blackburn who?

You wanted that daft bugger who nearly relegated QPR as manager.....

[Mattyblue]

Bit harsh that Paul…

 

[Leonard Venkhater]

25 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

This roughly equates to the Mowbray "journey".

Keep the faith - it'll all come good at some unspecified point years into the future. When everyone eventually wakes up and smells the coffee and realise it hasn't worked it doesn't matter by then. I've stuffed my pockets full of cash and can sail off merrily into the sunset.

Blackburn who?

Blackburn Alexandra?

[Gav]

Some tripe being talked on here, just for context, thanks to JH:

1) The budget was slashed mid-transfer window with zero warning from India, all targets cancelled.

2) Despite claims to the contrary, it was confirmed that there was an embargo on signings in place, which was so strict that it even prevented us signing Batth on a free/low cost short deal from Sunderland even though JDT had identified him as what was needed in defence.

The owners once again have shafted the manager and his colleagues, like they did with Mowbray at the back end of his time here, meddling in first team affairs, like they did appointing Coyle over Warnock, like they did backtracking on promises to Lambert and selling players like Cairney behind Bowyers back.

Nothing improves until those rats sod off.

Edited December 31, 2023 by Gav

[RevidgeBlue]

36 minutes ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

You wanted that daft bugger who nearly relegated QPR as manager.....

Fair point. Thought he merited a crack at a higher level. 

[joey_big_nose]

17 hours ago, booth said:

There's no way Hyam is fit. He's been rushed back due to lack of options.

Carter is over-rated in my opinion. Not a kid any more but still making schoolboy errors.

Brittain had a few good matches when he joined. He has the odd decent game going forward but he's an awful fullback.

Aside from the odd decent game where he gets stuck in, Pickering is a poor fullback and has been since Mowbray was here. People seem to have buried their head in the sand over this for some reason. Maybe it's because we're never going to get anyone better.

Moran is a young lad out of form and I suspect fatigued from not being used to so many minutes. When he first came into the team he struggled but then got up to speed and looked great. But I'm not surprised he's ran out of steam as he only turned 20 in October. I think he's also missing JRC and Dolan as his decline seems to have coincided with their absences.

We didn't have the best squad at the beginning and now with injuries/fitness issues it's showing us up for what we are. A lower mid-table club.

Thanks for this response. My view is that all these players were a key part of a team that finished just outside the playoffs on goal difference last year and 8th the year before with the only significant loss being BBD and he was a passenger the second half of last season. I can't see how its now a lower mid table squad. It's all opinions I suppose but Pickering, Hyam, Carter have all proven themselves as capable at this level. Brittain I accept has been a bit more hit and miss, but he looks a good player to me when properly supported. Moran has only had a three months here so harder to judge. But he looks a good one to me too.

We are playing in very radical way at the moment. Pushing sometimes eight players forward when we break and looking to our defenders to handle counters on their own. My supposition is if we took fewer risks, sat in our shape a bit more, then broke at speed when it opens up, then we could stop conceding as many soft goals and not lose many of our goals the other way. We can be more direct, we don't need to have 20 touches through the middle of the park to get to the box. As someone said on the Hull thread we looked like we could hurt them with direct passing, like the Szmodics goal, but we rarely don't try it. 

And if we sit in our shape a bit more our tired players will be able to conserve our energy a bit more and be less vulnerable to the simple passing mistakes in midfield which have plagued us. Most of the goals we have conceded recently stem from poor loose passes in the middle of the park we didn't need to make.

 

Edited December 31, 2023 by joey_big_nose

[martonrover]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

JDT is very happy to developing players for the first team like he did with Ash Phillips by playing him in his 3rd game. Plus Wharton and Garrett. 

Yes JDT is ambitious but he is happy to develop young talent players 

You really should be on the payroll at Rovers.

More spin than a Shane Warne googly.

No - one is saying that JDT doesn’t like working and developing young players.

However, that isn’t the be all and end all, and it is blatantly obvious that JDT is not happy with the “change of project”, and the fact the club do not match his ambitions.

Edited December 31, 2023 by martonrover

[Wheelton Blue]

43 minutes ago, Gav said:

Some tripe being talked on here, just for context, thanks to JH:

1) The budget was slashed mid-transfer window with zero warning from India, all targets cancelled.

2) Despite claims to the contrary, it was confirmed that there was an embargo on signings in place, which was so strict that it even prevented us signing Batth on a free/low cost short deal from Sunderland even though JDT had identified him as what was needed in defence.

The owners once again have shafted the manager and his colleagues, like they did with Mowbray at the back end of his time here, meddling in first team affairs, like they did appointing Coyle over Warnock, like they did backtracking on promises to Lambert and selling players like Cairney behind Bowyers back.

Nothing improves until those rats sod off.

Absolutely Gav. In the biggest of pictures, nothing will materially change for the better whilst this lot are here.

In the here and now though, and as you've agreed with prior, Tomasson shouldn't be given a free pass for what is an atrocious set of results.

Talk of getting rid him though - for now at least - is premature. I may not personally like his style of football, but I think that he'll turn it around over the next few games. He may have some weaknesses, but he has enough about him. He's proven that.