Gregg Broughton

[tomphil]

Now for the meat on the bones...

Commercial performance and gates up due to better performance on the pitch (the main key to everything and something you never achieve by the way we operate).  Season tickets up on the back of that and the 20 quid early bird discount, commercial stuff maybe from up front payments from sponsorship/owners.

Best season ever in the Championship was always going to lead to an increase in crowds and the cup run and tv money boosted income on several levels.

So really those figures are the exception to the rule and i doubt this season just gone's figures will be as impressive and are more reflective of the real world Ewood operation, discounting player sales obviously.

Edited May 12 by tomphil

[Miller11]

9 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

@Miller11 anything been said on this coming season shirt sponsor? 

Only that there is a period of time where Totally Wicked have the option to negotiate an extension. I’m fairly sure this window has now passed. This is just a hunch but I’m guessing we’d have heard by now if a new deal had been agreed. The details of any of the negotiations would obviously be commercially sensitive and not discussed with us, particularly before they were concluded.

12 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Lies, damn lies and…

We’ve gone from 8 to 9k ST holders, yes that’s an increase, 9 is higher than 8 after all, but it’s a very low bar in comparison to pretty much the whole division. It’s nothing to be proud of, though it will be bonuses and slaps on the backs all round.

But let’s use that as a baseline regardless and let’s continue to build… so do you (and the club) foresee that progress continuing next season? And if not, why?

It’s absolutely a low bar, but it’s a long time now since our attendances have been remotely decent. We’ve had loads of discussions around how to improve them significantly. It’s no secret that there are financial targets that have to be hit and this is the main consideration. The club have very little faith that they could still maintain those revenue levels by a significant reduction to season ticket prices - they don’t believe that a price reduction would lead to enough additional sales. Steve Waggott is well aware of what Preston charge, he’s also well aware of how much higher our ticket revenue is.

There isn’t a magic wand that anyone can wave to fill Ewood. It’s a long term project that needs to be done much better and much more creatively.

I suppose we will see what the club think about progressing the numbers over the next few days. Personally I think numbers will be significantly down unless there is something radically different with the season ticket offering. We’ve made our thoughts on this very very clear.

Our initial proposal for the season involved a number of initiatives including:

- Reduction in standard ST price

- Introductory priced adult ST for £149 in undersubscribed areas

 - Decent family discounts in all areas

- additional category for younger children

- a number of “bolt on” options to maximise revenue from willing spenders, rather than rinsing the hardcore

- flexible and “pay as you go” options to accommodate people who can’t commit to every game

We initially pitched this months ago, around Christmas and certainly before the January fiasco, the drop off in form, and the managerial change. Since then we have repeatedly stressed the mood of the fanbase will see sales badly impacted. Then of course the details of the new TV deal have since come out.

 

[Mattyblue]

Some excellent suggestions, but if they pretty much ignore the lot where do you stand engagement wise going forward with the executives at Ewood?

Edited May 12 by Mattyblue

[Miller11]

7 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Some excellent suggestions, but if they pretty much ignore the lot where do you stand engagement wise going forward with the executives at Ewood?

It would be disappointing. It’s also be a bit discussion point for our AGM next month.

[chaddyrovers]

33 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

Only that there is a period of time where Totally Wicked have the option to negotiate an extension. I’m fairly sure this window has now passed. This is just a hunch but I’m guessing we’d have heard by now if a new deal had been agreed. The details of any of the negotiations would obviously be commercially sensitive and not discussed with us, particularly before they were concluded.

Thanks for the response. 

33 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

It’s absolutely a low bar, but it’s a long time now since our attendances have been remotely decent. We’ve had loads of discussions around how to improve them significantly. It’s no secret that there are financial targets that have to be hit and this is the main consideration. The club have very little faith that they could still maintain those revenue levels by a significant reduction to season ticket prices - they don’t believe that a price reduction would lead to enough additional sales. Steve Waggott is well aware of what Preston charge, he’s also well aware of how much higher our ticket revenue is.

There isn’t a magic wand that anyone can wave to fill Ewood. It’s a long term project that needs to be done much better and much more creatively.

I suppose we will see what the club think about progressing the numbers over the next few days. Personally I think numbers will be significantly down unless there is something radically different with the season ticket offering. We’ve made our thoughts on this very very clear.

Our initial proposal for the season involved a number of initiatives including:

- Reduction in standard ST price

- Introductory priced adult ST for £149 in undersubscribed areas

 - Decent family discounts in all areas

- additional category for younger children

- a number of “bolt on” options to maximise revenue from willing spenders, rather than rinsing the hardcore

- flexible and “pay as you go” options to accommodate people who can’t commit to every game

We initially pitched this months ago, around Christmas and certainly before the January fiasco, the drop off in form, and the managerial change. Since then we have repeatedly stressed the mood of the fanbase will see sales badly impacted. Then of course the details of the new TV deal have since come out.

 

Waggott should be using the extra TV revenue from the new TV deal to lower ST prices and get Ewood fill more. yes revenue might not go massively but we could get another 3/4k on the attendance increasing atmosphere and more people buying items from Rovers like club shop, food stalls, etc 

I agree with your most of your ideas. 

Edited May 12 by chaddyrovers

[rigger]

4 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

It would be disappointing. It’s also be a bit discussion point for our AGM next month.

What are the appeal options if the club disregard your proposals ?

[yankfan]

3 hours ago, ABBEY said:

Give it a rest forcing venkygander  down our throat.

I said even if it’s not his direct responsibility, he’s going to be viewed at fault. If I hair a contractor to build a home and he hires a bloke that doesn’t  pound nails in the wall. I blame the contractor even though the nails in the boards aren’t his direct responsibility. After the Obrian saga he should have seen the business was completed. Say what you want it’s his reputation that take the hit. 

[Exiled_Rover]

50 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

Only that there is a period of time where Totally Wicked have the option to negotiate an extension. I’m fairly sure this window has now passed. This is just a hunch but I’m guessing we’d have heard by now if a new deal had been agreed. The details of any of the negotiations would obviously be commercially sensitive and not discussed with us, particularly before they were concluded.

It’s absolutely a low bar, but it’s a long time now since our attendances have been remotely decent. We’ve had loads of discussions around how to improve them significantly. It’s no secret that there are financial targets that have to be hit and this is the main consideration. The club have very little faith that they could still maintain those revenue levels by a significant reduction to season ticket prices - they don’t believe that a price reduction would lead to enough additional sales. Steve Waggott is well aware of what Preston charge, he’s also well aware of how much higher our ticket revenue is.

There isn’t a magic wand that anyone can wave to fill Ewood. It’s a long term project that needs to be done much better and much more creatively.

I suppose we will see what the club think about progressing the numbers over the next few days. Personally I think numbers will be significantly down unless there is something radically different with the season ticket offering. We’ve made our thoughts on this very very clear.

Our initial proposal for the season involved a number of initiatives including:

- Reduction in standard ST price

- Introductory priced adult ST for £149 in undersubscribed areas

 - Decent family discounts in all areas

- additional category for younger children

- a number of “bolt on” options to maximise revenue from willing spenders, rather than rinsing the hardcore

- flexible and “pay as you go” options to accommodate people who can’t commit to every game

We initially pitched this months ago, around Christmas and certainly before the January fiasco, the drop off in form, and the managerial change. Since then we have repeatedly stressed the mood of the fanbase will see sales badly impacted. Then of course the details of the new TV deal have since come out.

 

I gather we outsource the food & drink to an external company? Every time I see a day tripper in the Jack Walker (when they do a ticket offer) they've got a pie / chips / coke - but I assume Waggott won't care because we only get a small percentage of that. 

[Miller11]

10 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

I gather we outsource the food & drink to an external company? Every time I see a day tripper in the Jack Walker (when they do a ticket offer) they've got a pie / chips / coke - but I assume Waggott won't care because we only get a small percentage of that. 

It’s not entirely true that he doesn’t care, in fact he’s mentioned the additional income at the Newcastle game quite often. When I heard the average spend per head it seemed quite low to me (I can’t remember the exact figure off the top of my head). We’d no doubt do better if we got people in Ewood at half one instead of ten to three, and of course got more fans through the gates.

Most clubs now outsource it. Some of the other clubs with Sodexo are PNE, Wigan, Newcastle, Brighton, Fulham and Celtic. While you lose a percentage of the revenue, you save on the cost. 

[cesus]

15 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

It’s not entirely true that he doesn’t care, in fact he’s mentioned the additional income at the Newcastle game quite often. When I heard the average spend per head it seemed quite low to me (I can’t remember the exact figure off the top of my head). We’d no doubt do better if we got people in Ewood at half one instead of ten to three, and of course got more fans through the gates.

Most clubs now outsource it. Some of the other clubs with Sodexo are PNE, Wigan, Newcastle, Brighton, Fulham and Celtic. While you lose a percentage of the revenue, you save on the cost. 

Thanks for the info Miller, I appreciate it. This may seem like a low ball question, but do you think Steve Waggott is doing a reasonable job?

I'm not asking to trip you up, but I ultimately feel Steve Waggotts targets come ahead of the benefits to the team. Season tickets being the main one, him losing a few hundred grand off his target but gaining 3000/5000 fans would be better for the team but ultimately I get the feeling he would prefer the cash to hit his own numbers?

[Upside Down]

21 hours ago, toogs said:

And that all costs the Rao’s over £20m a year to implement. 🤯

 

 

I would wager that this entire endeavour over the last 14 years hasn't cost them anything.

[philipl]

So is this the week of Waggott's triumph?

[JHRover]

42 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

I would wager that this entire endeavour over the last 14 years hasn't cost them anything.

'Endeavour' suggests effort has been made. These owners certainly haven't applied any of that in the last 14 years, whatever tab they might have picked up for it.

 

[arbitro]

12 hours ago, Miller11 said:

We’ve had quite a lot of discussion around commercial performance over the last couple of years. The recent accounts show commercial income has grown from £4.8 million to £6.1 million per annum. Turnover was up 25% year on year.

Similarly, average attendance and number of season ticket holders is up again this year. 14% up over the last 2 years. Average attendance the highest since we were relegated. Match day revenue up £1.7 million in the last year.

I get asked on a near daily basis why aren’t we challenging the club on dwindling attendances and decreased commercial revenue. Obviously we can’t attack the club or anyone who works there based on misconceptions. What we can do is express our desire for things to grow at a quicker rate and provide feedback and suggestions on how this might be achieved.

Thanks Duncan. These are figures that Waggott will hide behind and spin but they don't really tell the truth in my view. On the back of season 22/23 there was a wave of optimism, something I haven't sensed for a few years. Finishing just outside the playoffs and two really good cup runs should have been capitalised on by a season ticket offer which was far more appealing and in line with other local clubs. It wasn't and whilst there was an increase the feeling was that it could have been much bigger by taking what I believe would have been a calculated risk. It did it for me when Waggott boasted in a Fans Forum about season ticket income being the highest ever (or something along those lines). I have said for some time that there should be two targets one being income from season tickets and the other being the number sold. It's about the low hanging fruit for Waggott, the path of least resistance. I don't think he is the post for the right reasons, it's about self preservation and that is really damaging to our club.

[Mattyblue]

We went from 8,700 in 22/23 to 9,100 in 23/24, and he was strutting around the place - the strut being on the back of being the club with the 23rd highest number of ST holders in the second division  👏

[Blue blood]

Not that Waggot will care but there is the fact that we need to get fresh blood into the club for its longevity. Season ticket holders - even the loyal core who don't care what Waggot or the owners do to crap on the club - will stop for a number of reasons; death, illness, a change in financial circumstances, moving away from the area. It will happen and they need replacing. Even maintaining the 8 to 9k we have takes effort and work. Given we are making zero effort on this long term we won't even maintain our 8-9k. We've seen it already as it's alarmingly dwindled. A drop a division due to a poorly funded team and I reckon it could be another hit. 

[JHRover]

Waggott knows what he's working for and knows that as long as he can produce figures that show numbers holding steady or slightly increasing then that will be box ticked at the summit meeting and off he goes for another 12 months on the gravy train.

Maybe I'm being kind to the owners here and suggesting that they are ultimately judging their employees on performance, which would be a first. I imagine the truth is Waggott could not sell a single season ticket and do whatever he wanted short of demolishing the stadium and they wouldn't get rid of him. Not unless he started turning the spotlight on them.

As it stands he's the perfect administrator for them. Does a job, keeps things ticking over, presents a facade of normality whilst overseeing an operation that is anything but normal.

Not going anywhere until he decides he's had enough. But when you're paid that sort of money to effectively be your own boss and rule over a little fiefdom thinking you're something special it can be a tough gig to give up voluntarily.

[Mattyblue]

4 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I imagine the truth is Waggott could not sell a single season ticket and do whatever he wanted short of demolishing the stadium and they wouldn't get rid of him. 

 

He would if he could, that pesky caveat - a Lidl would accompany the Aldi across the road nicely.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

42 minutes ago, arbitro said:

Thanks Duncan. These are figures that Waggott will hide behind and spin but they don't really tell the truth in my view. On the back of season 22/23 there was a wave of optimism, something I haven't sensed for a few years. Finishing just outside the playoffs and two really good cup runs should have been capitalised on by a season ticket offer which was far more appealing and in line with other local clubs. It wasn't and whilst there was an increase the feeling was that it could have been much bigger by taking what I believe would have been a calculated risk. It did it for me when Waggott boasted in a Fans Forum about season ticket income being the highest ever (or something along those lines). I have said for some time that there should be two targets one being income from season tickets and the other being the number sold. It's about the low hanging fruit for Waggott, the path of least resistance. I don't think he is the post for the right reasons, it's about self preservation and that is really damaging to our club.

The other time that we’ve had a wave of optimism was in the immediate aftermath of our last promotion. Things appeared to be on the up after years of decline. Then you had the manager pouring cold water on the prospect of a few exciting new signings by saying we didn’t need them. Just a few bench filling  bodies brought in to back up existing squad. Cue the sound of enthusiasm being extinguished.

[Mattyblue]

I honestly think Swag saw a promotion (merely back to the second division, a league we shouldn’t have fallen out of in the first place), that Oxford crowd and honestly expected us to suddenly sell thousands of extra STs on the back of it, whatever the price and ticket campaign.

Six years on and I think he gets out fanbase now, and the effort it takes to re-engage, so fuck that!

 

Edited May 13 by Mattyblue

[den]

For me, the only thing that will see season ticket sales increase is being successful on the pitch. Yes, prices will have an effect if they’re over the top but fans will fall away if they’re disillusioned with what they see. Prices will make no difference to that.

[Mattyblue]

Of course. That’s why offers/reductions have to be timed right to dovetail with a bit of positivity/momentum around the club, we’ve had opportunities over the past few seasons to do it… but that certainly ain’t this summer.

Edited May 13 by Mattyblue

[lraC]

21 minutes ago, den said:

For me, the only thing that will see season ticket sales increase is being successful on the pitch. Yes, prices will have an effect if they’re over the top but fans will fall away if they’re disillusioned with what they see. Prices will make no difference to that.

I know it was after the season tickets had been bought in the main, but I am sure people are still full aware that last season the former manager was told that the aim for the season was to avoid relegation.

Before tickets go on sale, surely a statement of intent is required, along the lines of how the finances are, how likely we are to be making signings and what the aims are for the coming season.

The old saying, if you fail to plan, you plan to fail springs to mind, so hopefully someone has a plan.

[tomphil]

30 minutes ago, den said:

For me, the only thing that will see season ticket sales increase is being successful on the pitch. Yes, prices will have an effect if they’re over the top but fans will fall away if they’re disillusioned with what they see. Prices will make no difference to that.

At the right price or right early bird incentive then even after this season and all the nonsense yet again foisted onto us by those running and owning the place we could still turn 9k into 12k.

There is absolutely no desire to do that though.

[chaddyrovers]

35 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Of course. That’s why offers/reductions have to be timed right to dovetail with a bit of positivity/momentum around the club, we’ve had opportunities over the past few seasons to do it… but that certainly ain’t this summer.

If we had put them on in February we could have say help Rovers secure the championship and secure your seat for next season