Brockhall STC - planning permission application ?

[Leonard Venkhater]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

So hypothetically, if you had identified a piece of land that had potential for development, used your influence with the owner of the land to persuade them to sell, obtained planning permission and alerted developers you wouldn't expect (a perfectly legal) "finders fee" off the developers?

And what would any arrangements between you and the developers have to do with the finances of the seller? Wouldn't affect them at all.

Land sales/property investment is really not my strong suit.

What is your working hypothesis about all the different ways that club employees could make personal gain from this?

If it is unwise/too unsafe to make a public post PM me...It sounds like I need to sharpen my own awareness....

Edited March 13, 2021 by Leonard Venkhater

[tomphil]

It's crazy to assume some people in the middle of all this won't make themselves a nice bonus. Nothing illegal about it either it's just the way these things work although taking advantage of a situation raises moral questions.

Finders fees, commission, sweentners, holding fees or just a plain old bonus.

Not a bad gig if you can justify your position by bringing millions in, cover your own wages whilst you've been here AND get a cherry on top.

[Leonard Venkhater]

2 minutes ago, tomphil said:

It's crazy to assume some people in the middle of all this won't make themselves a nice bonus. Nothing illegal about it either it's just the way these things work although taking advantage of a situation raises moral questions.

Finders fees, commission, sweentners, holding fees or just a plain old bonus.

Not a bad gig if you can justify your position by bringing millions in, cover your own wages whilst you've been here AND get a cherry on top.

BUT....as an employee of the club, I would expect that all moneys ought to go back to into the club....I guess that would require owners, who were vigilant anf had processes of scrutiny in place....

Edited March 13, 2021 by Leonard Venkhater

[tomphil]

Time Madame ordered another audit i think....

[RevidgeBlue]

Jus

28 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Land sales/property investment is really not my strong suit.

What is your working hypothesis about all the different ways that club employees could make personal gain from this?

If it is unwise/too unsafe to make a public post PM me...It sounds like I need to sharpen my own awareness....

Just trying to make sense of why anyone would want to bother with a scheme which will leave us with worse facilities than the ones we already have, will almost certainly lose us Category 1 Academy  Status, will probably leave us with nowhere at all to train for a considerable period and which we are told , may need the owners to fork out yet again to meet any shortfall!

No suggestion at all anything illegal would be going on but as matt says it appears on the face of it that it appears to raise moral issues.

 

[lraC]

4 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Time Madame ordered another audit i think....

She is that careful, she had two done last time. Despite that, we carried on losing millions every year. 
 

They are still being badly advised, by the looks of things. 

Edited March 13, 2021 by lraC

[JHRover]

29 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

BUT....as an employee of the club, I would expect that all moneys ought to go back to into the club....I guess that would require owners, who were vigilant anf had processes of scrutiny in place....

I've been told and would fully expect that Waggott is on some sort of performance related pay or bonus system. That would make sense - the more money he saves/delivers the more he takes home. It would explain his attempts to hit his targets - running cash competitions to hit his magical season ticket target.

Now if he delivers this project, which brings in millions in extra cash and also saves substantial amounts every year on running costs, I think it is entirely plausible that he will get some sort of reward for doing so. In fact I'd be absolutely amazed if he was overseeing a project of this nature through to delivery and not doing.

As above, it isn't illegal or dodgy, but the project itself isn't in the club's long term interests, I'm sure of that.

[Leonard Venkhater]

4 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I've been told and would fully expect that Waggott is on some sort of performance related pay or bonus system. That would make sense - the more money he saves/delivers the more he takes home. It would explain his attempts to hit his targets - running cash competitions to hit his magical season ticket target.

Now if he delivers this project, which brings in millions in extra cash and also saves substantial amounts every year on running costs, I think it is entirely plausible that he will get some sort of reward for doing so. In fact I'd be absolutely amazed if he was overseeing a project of this nature through to delivery and not doing.

As above, it isn't illegal or dodgy, but the project itself isn't in the club's long term interests, I'm sure of that.

Hitting the target..missing the point !

[Mattyblue]

Extraordinary really that a decade on we have owners that are still content for a prestigious football club with a relatively large turnover to not bother with a proper recruitment process for the top executive positions, indeed are happy enough for former agent spivs that have already popped up at various lower league outfits to run the place into the ground.

I’d take pleasure in the fools repeatedly having their pants pulled down if it wasn’t so tragic for our football club.

[RevidgeBlue]

11 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Now if he delivers this project, which brings in millions in extra cash and also saves substantial amounts every year

If that was the case it would be a rationale, yet he appears to be claiming the owners may well have to fork out towards it.

Who commits to any sort of redevelopment project without any idea of the likely cost?

[JHRover]

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

If that was the case it would be a rationale, yet he appears to be claiming the owners may well have to fork out towards it.

Who commits to any sort of redevelopment project without any idea of the likely cost?

Because that part is a lie, aimed at shielding Venkys from criticism and to convince people that the motivation isn't financial when it is.

[LDRover]

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

Because that part is a lie, aimed at shielding Venkys from criticism and to convince people that the motivation isn't financial when it is.

Exactamundo.

The sooner we all get our heads around this the sooner we can combine our efforts towards the removal of these scumbags.

[funny-old-game]

I've looked mainly from a distance on here of late about anything Rovers, as I'm running on empty with regards to the passion and love I've had over more than 50yrs being a fan.

 

What irks me most is this total mismanagement will continue until the Venkys leave or we go out of existence. Nobody really knows if the debt £190+ is something they can claw back, either way the club is being diluted, stript back or asset stript (take your pick).

 

The Venkys are in to deep in my opinion so this downward spiral will continue till either of the above happens and we have no club left.

 

Another thing that gets to me is some members that are very vocal on this topic are the one's that looked down their noses at members advocating Venkys out and voiced it on here as their was clearly only one way this was going. Myself, arbitro, Clayton's left boot to name a few where outside Ewood wanting Venkys out and the apathy and distain towards us was soul-destroying, now some are on here with what seems like the pennies has finally dropped, but sadly maybe to later IMO.

[tomphil]

4 hours ago, JHRover said:

Because that part is a lie, aimed at shielding Venkys from criticism and to convince people that the motivation isn't financial when it is.

If that's the case it would sound like this is why he in particular was recruited. Having previous for this kind of project. 

[Sparks Rover]

1 minute ago, tomphil said:

If that's the case it would sound like this is why he in particular was recruited. Having previous for this kind of project. 

I don't believe that.  The business has taken a hit worldwide , about 500m down from what I can see.  Time to consolidate from their point of view.  They could realise 150m from the land potentially and would it really make any difference to the 1st team that we dont have teams below U10.....nope.

[Crimpshrine]

3 hours ago, funny-old-game said:

 Myself, arbitro, Clayton's left boot to name a few where outside Ewood wanting Venkys out and the apathy and distain towards us was soul-destroying, now some are on here with what seems like the pennies has finally dropped, but sadly maybe to later IMO.

Never too late to protest against Venky's ownership. I feel duty bound to continue whenever possible.

[J*B]

10 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

I don't believe that.  The business has taken a hit worldwide , about 500m down from what I can see.  Time to consolidate from their point of view.  They could realise 150m from the land potentially and would it really make any difference to the 1st team that we dont have teams below U10.....nope.

150M? They’re selling the land, not developing the houses themselves. They’ll be lucky to get 20M from knocking down the STC and selling the land. I could accept it if it was 150M. 

[arbitro]

Just now, J*B said:

150M? They’re selling the land, not developing the houses themselves. They’ll be lucky to get 20M from knocking down the STC and selling the land. I could accept it if it was 150M. 

And that is the popular misconception amongst many who are in favour. Swag actually said that it could be that they may even have to ask the owners for more money to complete his project. That is the main reason why I'm struggling with this. Just what is the point of effectively downsizing when it might actually end up costing more money.

[tomphil]

10 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

I don't believe that.  The business has taken a hit worldwide , about 500m down from what I can see.  Time to consolidate from their point of view.  They could realise 150m from the land potentially and would it really make any difference to the 1st team that we dont have teams below U10.....nope.

150 mill ?

So you don't think that if someone tipped them the nod that certain individuals might specialize in these projects then employing them might seem a tab more attractive ?

It was a surprise to everyone when after employing no real directors they suddenly install a real CEO with experience on 300k p.a.  Of course Mowbray got the credit for advising on that but maybe it goes a lot deeper.

[Sparks Rover]

1 hour ago, arbitro said:

Swag actually said that it could be that they may even have to ask the owners for more money to complete his project. 

Must be true then. Make no mistake this is a way of raising money, not spending🙄.

Plus, with the enhanced value of real estate in that area, why wouldn't they look to make money off the builds ?

 

[J*B]

1 hour ago, arbitro said:

And that is the popular misconception amongst many who are in favour. Swag actually said that it could be that they may even have to ask the owners for more money to complete his project. That is the main reason why I'm struggling with this. Just what is the point of effectively downsizing when it might actually end up costing more money.

I’m not bothered about us losing money on building it, although as you say it makes no sense. I’m concerned what happens when we’re (hopefully) back in the Premier League and nobody says “the training centre isn’t big enough - we need to move the academy elsewhere” and all the local land is worth hundreds of millions of pounds and we don’t want to pay that. Before you know it we’ve swapped two sites half a mile between each other for two sites 4 miles away from each other. 

[arbitro]

6 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Must be true then. Make no mistake this is a way of raising money, not spending🙄.

Plus, with the enhanced value of real estate in that area, why wouldn't they look to make money off the builds ?

 

Pretty much everyone would have thought the club would make lots of money on this and that was the motivation and in their eyes the justification. Now whether or not Swag is telling the truth is immaterial to me, the fact he said it should be a stick to beat him with when he is questioned about it by various fan groups and the press. 

[Sparks Rover]

19 minutes ago, J*B said:

the local land is worth hundreds of millions of pounds and we don’t want to pay that. 

Eh? You just pummelled me for saying 150m 

[RevidgeBlue]

12 hours ago, funny-old-game said:

I've looked mainly from a distance on here of late about anything Rovers, as I'm running on empty with regards to the passion and love I've had over more than 50yrs being a fan.

 

What irks me most is this total mismanagement will continue until the Venkys leave or we go out of existence. Nobody really knows if the debt £190+ is something they can claw back, either way the club is being diluted, stript back or asset stript (take your pick).

 

The Venkys are in to deep in my opinion so this downward spiral will continue till either of the above happens and we have no club left.

 

Another thing that gets to me is some members that are very vocal on this topic are the one's that looked down their noses at members advocating Venkys out and voiced it on here as their was clearly only one way this was going. Myself, arbitro, Clayton's left boot to name a few where outside Ewood wanting Venkys out and the apathy and distain towards us was soul-destroying, now some are on here with what seems like the pennies has finally dropped, but sadly maybe to later IMO.

I wasn't a supporter of the original Venky's out campaign because I didn't see the point in ousting multi billionaire owners in favour of people who can't afford to fund us.

Still don't.

If a genuine alternative with sufficient financial clout comes along then it's a discussion worth having but not until then for me.

[RevidgeBlue]

1 minute ago, Sparks Rover said:

Eh? You just pummelled me for saying 150m 

He was talking about years in the future I think.