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Brockhall STC - planning permission application ?


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7 hours ago, JHRover said:

What should I be looking at?

I find the Mowbray directorship that ended last year particularly interesting, but is there anything else that waves red flags?

I was tired and have ‘other pots to wash’, sorry for being abrupt.

Look on the planning proposals lodged with RVBC and see the names of the architects and project planners involved, then navigate Companies House.

Then tie in ‘connected’ company formations and various Director resignations and the dates. Then join the dots!.....

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1 hour ago, darrenrover said:

I was tired and have ‘other pots to wash’, sorry for being abrupt.

Look on the planning proposals lodged with RVBC and see the names of the architects and project planners involved, then navigate Companies House.

Then tie in ‘connected’ company formations and various Director resignations and the dates. Then join the dots!.....

Great work Nick, you are a bright light in the Rovers' wilderness!

Surely there must be some 'journalist' out there worthy of the title who is capable of following the stinking trail back to its foul instigators (basically the proponents of the current plans for Brockhall)? You would have thought there is a community interest story at the least, and potentially the unearthing of a major and systematic long term blight on clubs like ours, Coventry City, Southend United etc....

On the scale and duration of this scam alone, there would appear to be a juicy story just itching to be picked up.

SCAMMERS OUT!

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8 minutes ago, WIR Second Coming said:

Great work Nick, you are a bright light in the Rovers' wilderness!

Surely there must be some 'journalist' out there worthy of the title who is capable of following the stinking trail back to its foul instigators (basically the proponents of the current plans for Brockhall)? You would have thought there is a community interest story at the least, and potentially the unearthing of a major and systematic long term blight on clubs like ours, Coventry City, Southend United etc....

On the scale and duration of this scam alone, there would appear to be a juicy story just itching to be picked up.

SCAMMERS OUT!

Thanks, none necessary really but I do appreciate your sentiments.

Sadly, it appears that few have the requisite bollocks!

Fortunately, WE do!.......(being "posh lads" 'n' all!)

Edited by darrenrover
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20 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Balaji Barrett 

Balaji the Builder in his little hard builders hat is admittedly  a very pleasing image and would at least bring some financial sense to these bizarre plans, if not footballing ones.

It doesn't take into account anything that happened at Coventry though does it?

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Been reviewing this thread and found this in relation to Crystal Palace's new Academy which surely lays bare the motivation behind our scheme.

They have seemingly drawn up detailed plans of a sparkling new facility and received confirmation of Category 1 status before it was completed. So seemingly it is possible to do that.

If our genuine intention was to upgrade the training facilities, surely we would have drawn up the detailed plans a la Palace and obtained confirmation that Cat 1 status would be approved for the new facility BEFORE taking any steps to sell one of the sites?

http://cpfc.co.uk/news/2020/july/crystal-palace-fc-secures-category-1-status-for-its-academy

Edited by RevidgeBlue
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14 hours ago, JHRover said:

Yeah but your posts have gone now 

Oh, that explains it...I haven't been able to read them.

Anyway, almost certainly there are others, lurking on the site, who should not know how much you/ we know etc..

So for now, I can accept there are "known unknowns"

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2 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Been reviewing this thread and found this in relation to Crystal Palace's new Academy which surely lays bare the motivation behind our scheme.

They have seemingly drawn up detailed plans of a sparkling new facility and received confirmation of Category 1 status before it was completed. So seemingly it is possible to do that.

If our genuine intention was to upgrade the training facilities, surely we would have drawn up the detailed plans a la Palace and obtained confirmation that Cat 1 status would be approved for the new facility BEFORE taking any steps to sell one of the sites?

http://cpfc.co.uk/news/2020/july/crystal-palace-fc-secures-category-1-status-for-its-academy

But Crystal Palace are currently Cat 2 so presumably wanted the reassurance that their new centre would be good enough for an upgrade. And they may already have planning approval.

Rovers already have Cat 1 status so have no need to incur costs on designing the new centre until the club has secured proof of concept approval. It would be financially daft to do otherwise.

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@darrenrover If I might make a suggestion and it's only directed at you since you appear to have done the most digging, perhaps you and other interested (qualified) people got together and formed an action committee, set up a website/blog/social media to oppose the club's plans. The old slogan: find it; prove it, print it. Possibly link up with the local Brockhall Village protest group, assuming there is one.

That would ensure there are no legal issues, potentially, for this forum. I'm assuming your posts were removed for that reason.

Edited by Richard Oakley
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8 minutes ago, only2garners said:

But Crystal Palace are currently Cat 2 so presumably wanted the reassurance that their new centre would be good enough for an upgrade. And they may already have planning approval.

Rovers already have Cat 1 status so have no need to incur costs on designing the new centre until the club has secured proof of concept approval. It would be financially daft to do otherwise.

It seems prudent to ensure that plans to redevelop the site ensure that Cat 1/A is maintained.

Any chance you could post the minutes of the fans forum meeting on the fans forum thread on this blog. Been on the thread and seen the minutes have been linked. Thanks to @Herbie6590 for that.

Edited by Richard Oakley
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10 minutes ago, only2garners said:

But Crystal Palace are currently Cat 2 so presumably wanted the reassurance that their new centre would be good enough for an upgrade. And they may already have planning approval.

Rovers already have Cat 1 status so have no need to incur costs on designing the new centre until the club has secured proof of concept approval. It would be financially daft to do otherwise.

I really don't know where you're coming from on this John, the Cat 1 status relates to the existing SEPARATE facilities. Surely if we have to rebuild a completely new training facility from scratch then the existing classification becomes redundant and we would have to go about obtaining Cat 1 status all over again.

To use an extreme example to prove a point, if the Club sold the STC site, knocked down the original facility where the Academy is now, and  replaced it with a large portakabin, that wouldn't attract Cat 1 status merely because we'd had it in the past would it?

In the current case, we'll give the Club the benefit of the doubt and assume they are going to build what they say they are if both proposals are passed. The screening application refers to a facility of "similar scale" and identical specification m to the existing STC. How can we possibly be sure that cramming everyone into a building the size of the existing STC and losing at least half of our pitch space would meet Cat 1 requirements?

Have the Club told you that they've taken any precautionary steps to try and ascertain whether we would be Cat 1 compliant?

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44 minutes ago, Richard Oakley said:

It seems prudent to ensure that plans to redevelop the site ensure that Cat 1/A is maintained.

Any chance you could post the minutes of the fans forum meeting on the fans forum thread on this blog. Been on the thread and seen the minutes have been linked. Thanks to @Herbie6590 for that.

Richard - as you say Herbie has already put up a link to them on the club site. If I posted them on the FF thread it would be a huge post (they are 5 pages of A4) which would really mess up this thread.

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6 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I really don't know where you're coming from on this John, the Cat 1 status relates to the existing SEPARATE facilities. Surely if we have to rebuild a completely new training facility from scratch then the existing classification becomes redundant and we would have to go about obtaining Cat 1 status all over again.

To use an extreme example to prove a point, if the Club sold the STC site, knocked down the original facility where the Academy is now, and  replaced it with a large portakabin, that wouldn't attract Cat 1 status merely because we'd had it in the past would it?

In the current case, we'll give the Club the benefit of the doubt and assume they are going to build what they say they are if both proposals are passed. The screening application refers to a facility of "similar scale" and identical specification m to the existing STC. How can we possibly be sure that cramming everyone into a building the size of the existing STC and losing at least half of our pitch space would meet Cat 1 requirements?

Have the Club told you that they've taken any precautionary steps to try and ascertain whether we would be Cat 1 compliant?

Simon - clearly the work that Palace have done to get their new Cat 1 status would also have to be done by the club as well. But he sensible time to do it will be when they have got past proof of concept and they then engage professionals re the design of the new centre but before they start knocking anything down and building again. Doing all that now just means that they risk wasting money if there are problems with the proof of concept application.

We didn't ask a specific question about getting advance confirmation of retention of Cat 1 status but we will have plenty of time to ask it at subsequent meetings. All I know is as much as anyone else on here given that there have been plenty of public pronouncements i.e. that the club's position is that the most important thing is the retention of Cat 1 status. It's reiterated in the FF minutes.

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3 minutes ago, only2garners said:

Simon - clearly the work that Palace have done to get their new Cat 1 status would also have to be done by the club as well. But he sensible time to do it will be when they have got past proof of concept and they then engage professionals re the design of the new centre but before they start knocking anything down and building again. Doing all that now just means that they risk wasting money if there are problems with the proof of concept application.

We didn't ask a specific question about getting advance confirmation of retention of Cat 1 status but we will have plenty of time to ask it at subsequent meetings. All I know is as much as anyone else on here given that there have been plenty of public pronouncements i.e. that the club's position is that the most important thing is the retention of Cat 1 status. It's reiterated in the FF minutes.

You can build what you want but you can't magic up space that doesn't exist John.

What if the proof of concept applications both go through but further inquiry reveals that the more restricted site is completely incompatible with Cat 1 Regulations? (Which I think it clearly would be)

Do you actually think the Club would scrap the plans at that stage? Can we afford to take that risk?

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56 minutes ago, only2garners said:

Simon - clearly the work that Palace have done to get their new Cat 1 status would also have to be done by the club as well. But he sensible time to do it will be when they have got past proof of concept and they then engage professionals re the design of the new centre but before they start knocking anything down and building again. Doing all that now just means that they risk wasting money if there are problems with the proof of concept application.

We didn't ask a specific question about getting advance confirmation of retention of Cat 1 status but we will have plenty of time to ask it at subsequent meetings. All I know is as much as anyone else on here given that there have been plenty of public pronouncements i.e. that the club's position is that the most important thing is the retention of Cat 1 status. It's reiterated in the FF minutes.

Question:

If you have a pint pot, would you not agree that it will only fit a pint of liquid in it? (rhetorical, obviously)

So if you have 18 acres and are compliant to Cat 1 standards, how the fuck do you then fit that into 9 acres and still be Cat 1 compliant? (For the avoidance of doubt, Seniors and Juniors need to be totally detached and separate entities)

I said I wouldn't post any more on here and I won't but there are some that are about to make my already boiling blood, boil over!!

PS, The Moon's made out of cheese, Waggott said it's fecking Stilton, is that what he told you?

Edited by darrenrover
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1 hour ago, darrenrover said:

Question:

If you have a pint pot, would you not agree that it will only fit a pint of liquid in it? (rhetorical, obviously)

So if you have 18 acres and are compliant to Cat 1 standards, how the fuck do you then fit that into 9 acres and still be Cat 1 compliant? (For the avoidance of doubt, Seniors and Juniors need to be totally detached and separate entities)

I said I wouldn't post any more on here and I won't but there are some that are about to make my already boiling blood, boil over!!

PS, The Moon's made out of cheese, Waggott said it's fecking Stilton, is that what he told you?

Darren, I think you could educate and inform rather than how you are approaching it.

Some things you post are great but it's all so cryptic, be straight to the point and informative as it then helps to educate all of us rather than say "my last post" every time.

Cheers

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59 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Darren, I think you could educate and inform rather than how you are approaching it.

Some things you post are great but it's all so cryptic, be straight to the point and informative as it then helps to educate all of us rather than say "my last post" every time.

Cheers

If I were to 'educate', I'd then be accused of being patronising by some. (which I most definitely am not)

I don't disagree with you at all and in the grand scheme of things, I don't want to prejudice any potential good that may come as a consequence of OUR actions. Hence the reason for saying "last post" several times.

I am however, so revved up and angry, particularly at some who purport to have the best interests of BRFC at heart but clearly don't, that temptation has got the better of me and I have felt the need to respond, when in truth, I would probably have been better keeping my gob shut...but I am what I am! 

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2 hours ago, darrenrover said:

If I were to 'educate', I'd then be accused of being patronising by some. (which I most definitely am not)

I don't disagree with you at all and in the grand scheme of things, I don't want to prejudice any potential good that may come as a consequence of OUR actions. Hence the reason for saying "last post" several times.

I am however, so revved up and angry, particularly at some who purport to have the best interests of BRFC at heart but clearly don't, that temptation has got the better of me and I have felt the need to respond, when in truth, I would probably have been better keeping my gob shut...but I am what I am! 

I personally would love to be educated and I think by educating you would be building a case of support to oppose.

I personally am massively against Waggot, Venus and Mowbray.

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17 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

I personally would love to be educated and I think by educating you would be building a case of support to oppose.

I personally am massively against Waggot, Venus and Mowbray.

Thanks but bloody hell, please give me a break!?

Over the past 2 or 3 months, how much more could I have put on this site to demonstrate what we feel is going on?

I'm pleased regarding your final sentence: the blind man on a galloping horse agrees with you too!

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1 hour ago, RoversClitheroe said:

I personally would love to be educated and I think by educating you would be building a case of support to oppose.

I personally am massively against Waggot, Venus and Mowbray.

I have to say my own education in this matter has been largely made up of things I really did not want to hear!

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Has anyone asked the club, via Fans Forum, or whatever route, this simple question "If the redevelopment of Brockhall (or sell-off to give it its real name) goes ahead, is Cat 1 status for the Academy guaranteed or is it in jeopardy?

(fans of the Goons will recall Neddy Seagoon replying"I don't want to go abroad!"

If not, why not? I ask the question because I've never seen the answer yet it is at the very heart of our concerns isn't it?

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