Summer transfer window 2021.

[islander200]

9 hours ago, JHRover said:

One hell of a gamble. You're happy to gamble with the club's future, I'm not. I don't think we are in a position to take that sort of risk and just hope it pays off, and certainly not with this manager's track record on young projects.

Nothing wrong with using our own academy players in the first team - Nyambe, Trav, Lenihan - 3 big players for us who I would have first names on the team sheet most weeks. Then there's Buckley, JRC and Wharton who also feature regularly. So there's no shortage of players making the grade and being used. Our academy is highly productive and has delivered more than most.

Shame about most of these lads running their contracts down because the Club hasn't got any sort of medium to long term aim but that's another story for another day.

The policy here however, which you seem happy to go with, is to avoid spending any money, issuing permanent contracts or recruiting externally because why do that when you can chuck an academy lad in which is cheaper and easier, regardless of whether they are actually good enough or not and just hope it works out. By works out we aren't talking about promotion from this league, just existence down the middle. Again no overarching aim or ambition at this club other than to cobble together a squad and float around hoping individuals develop and improve.

Others have aims - promotion asap - and recruit to try and achieve it.

The club needs money being brought in.We don't sell Armstrong and he leaves on a free then we won't be able to do anything in the market next season and will have nobody who can bring in the transfer fee that Armstrong can command this season.So you will just be prolonging it.He needs to be sold this season and it's silly to think otherwise.

These teams that you go on about spending big money sell players to fund it.

Edited August 5, 2021 by islander200

[islander200]

33 minutes ago, JHRover said:

And if it results in relegation will you still think the same?

Other clubs sell players and then are ready to reinvest and go again. That's what we used to do. It doesn't happen under this regime, we just get weaker and weaker and waste what little cash is spent on loans.

Must have imagined 7 million being spent on Brererton and 5 on Gallagher,not to mention the raft of high cost free transfers.

Exactly other clubs sell players which we have to do with Armstrong

[Bigdoggsteel]

3 hours ago, neophox said:

How can Norwich value Idah at £5m...then Dolan is the same value?

Idag has scored three goals up to date.

 

Strange one.

How do you make that comparison? Idah has played and scored in the premier league. They know his attributes. To be honest 5 million would be a good deal. 

Dolan was released by Preston and couldn't get in our struggling team ahead of loanees last season 

[tomphil]

If this goes through i can actually see Rovers pulling off another Elliot style loan or 2 on the back of it. The masses on social media will lap it up again (masses who are somehow absent from Ewood on matchday).  Yet they will be missing the point that even these things probably cost the club a million or two.

Dead money straight through the tubes that once its gone - like the STC- it can't be spent again. Yet on the face of it it glosses over long standing problems again with short termism solutions. Something Mowbray seems to specialize in over the last few seasons.

Talk of signings in January given our track record around then even if there was money is futile at best. We know the drill 'no business being done' 'not much about so stupid prices' 'asking for crazy wages' 'wait till summer, stay up then explore the freebie market' and so on.

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 hours ago, CheshireRover said:

Mowbray told the LT that he expects none of the Arma money to come back to the squad.

I suppose the wider issue is we’ve spent the Arma money before selling him, and for the most part wasted it.

Incorrect. He said he doesn't know 

[chaddyrovers]

32 minutes ago, JHRover said:

And if it results in relegation will you still think the same?

Other clubs sell players and then are ready to reinvest and go again. That's what we used to do. It doesn't happen under this regime, we just get weaker and weaker and waste what little cash is spent on loans.

We need to address the financial losses of the club and we are allow to lose 39 mil over a 3 seasons timescale. We are losing 20 million pounds a season so we need ao

[JHRover]

23 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Must have imagined 7 million being spent on Brererton and 5 on Gallagher,not to mention the raft of high cost free transfers.

Exactly other clubs sell players which we have to do with Armstrong

I'm glad you mentioned them two. I expect their transfer fees are what Armstrong's fee will be covering.

Not got a lot to show for this 4 year journey have we?

[JHRover]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

We need to address the financial losses of the club and we are allow to lose 39 mil over a 3 seasons timescale. We are losing 20 million pounds a season so we need ao

You really must have been born yesterday if you believe the state of the club is down to FFP rules.

I notice you didn't answer my question about relegation. I hope you aren't one of these who thinks we are too good to go down.

The 20 million loss is due to Covid.

Isn't it amazing how no other clubs have ended up in sudden dire straits and having to slash costs and sell players to achieve compliance

Almost as though it is unique to Rovers. Wonder why that could be.

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

56 minutes ago, JHRover said:

And if it results in relegation will you still think the same?

Other clubs sell players and then are ready to reinvest and go again. That's what we used to do. It doesn't happen under this regime, we just get weaker and weaker and waste what little cash is spent on loans.

But that’s simply not true. Look at the last 3 seasons, we’ve strengthened each year with no significant outgoings. Even last year, we kept hold of almost everyone and brought in Kaminski and Elliott with others. The whole reason why Mowbray should be sacked is that the squad has got STRONGER over recent times and yet the results haven’t improved.

The Armstrong sale in isolation is necessary given the figures involved. We can’t afford another Dack situation. It’s disappointing to hear that the money won’t go back into the squad but given the financial picture at the club, we can’t be surprised.

[Bigdoggsteel]

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/19492829.mowbray-says-signings-will-dictate-blackburn-rovers-system/

"Signings to dictate system"

Should it not be the other way around? Should it not always have been the other way around? 

[Dreams of 1995]

4 minutes ago, tomphil said:

If this goes through i can actually see Rovers pulling off another Elliot style loan or 2 on the back of it. The masses on social media will lap it up again (masses who are somehow absent from Ewood on matchday).  Yet they will be missing the point that even these things probably cost the club a million or two.

It is no way to run a long term club but sometimes you have to think of the near term. Whatever we have to say about Mowbray, Waggott or the “journey”, the here and now dictates we need bodies in

If the Armstrong deal frees up the finances to bring in the likes of Elliot then I’d be happy in the short term. If we start the season with the squad we have at the time of writing we could be looking at a tough year ahead.

[JHRover]

1 minute ago, magicalmortensleftpeg said:

But that’s simply not true. Look at the last 3 seasons, we’ve strengthened each year with no significant outgoings. Even last year, we kept hold of almost everyone and brought in Kaminski and Elliott with others. The whole reason why Mowbray should be sacked is that the squad has got STRONGER over recent times and yet the results haven’t improved.

The Armstrong sale in isolation is necessary given the figures involved. We can’t afford another Dack situation. It’s disappointing to hear that the money won’t go back into the squad but given the financial picture at the club, we can’t be surprised.

I think we are ending up at cross purposes here.

In isolation I have no objections as such to us selling Armstrong to a PL club, provided we get a suitable fee for him.

The issue I have is that we are not a normal club. Other clubs sell their star players, but then have a plan and funds to go out, reinvest, strengthen and go again.

We won't do that. We know from experience what happens.

January 2016 we sell Rhodes. Very similar comments on here then about it being something we needed to do, was the reality of where we were, that it would provide good funds to rebuild the squad. Then over the following 18 months we spent one fee on Derrick Williams, Lambert walked and we got relegated. That is not reinvestment and if that is what we have to look forward to I would rather keep Armstrong because at least we could have some confidence of survival this season.

Other clubs sign players, even if only on frees. We haven't done anything all summer, which isn't normal even for those under restrictions or on the cusp of FFP.

[islander200]

11 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I'm glad you mentioned them two. I expect their transfer fees are what Armstrong's fee will be covering.

Not got a lot to show for this 4 year journey have we?

No we don't but what's your point?

You continuously make out that we don't spend money when we clearly have?

Armstrong isn't signing a new deal,the club needs money being brought in and letting our only high value asset leave on a free would be stupid beyond belief if offers of 15+ are in 

[Torgeir]

Venky's might pour cold water on any swap deal but certainly Obafemi or Idah would fit our profile and is well within what Mowbray and his staff are trying to do. Armstrong would be the perfect example of course.

 

Idah is still valued at less than we brought Brereton in for, and has earned full caps for his country. A little haggling to bring the total sum up to £17m + £3m Idah and he'll be ready to make his debut around Christmas.

[davulsukur]

Although I think the club want cash only, I do think £15m + a player on a permanent deal is the best we could get. Gives us a player to cover the loss of Armstrong (in terms of bodies) and some money. 

If we sell and get no one, we are looking at Gallagher or an under 23 upfront all season. And we already know Gallagher isn't that great.

[JHRover]

3 minutes ago, islander200 said:

No we don't but what's your point?

You continuously make out that we don't spend money when we clearly have?

Armstrong isn't signing a new deal,the club needs money being brought in and letting our only high value asset leave on a free would be stupid beyond belief if offers of 15+ are in 

The point is that the money has already been spent. Venkys invest in transfer fees on the proviso they get it back through sales. So the Brereton and Gallagher cash has already been earmarked.

Simple question - would you rather survive in the Championship and lose Armstrong on a free next summer or sell him now, get money that won't benefit the club and get relegated?

Selling your best players and not signing anyone whilst releasing 11 players is stupid beyond belief, as is persisting with a poor manager. We're good at making stupid decisions here.

 

[TheKitGuy]

50 minutes ago, CheshireRover said:

Oh yeah, no doubting that! But I bet their fans were absolutely made up with the fact that they brought those players in and used the money wisely.

In hindsight money not used wisely but I imagine it was good to see the club make proactive moves after losing one of their best players in history 

[had.e.nuff]

19 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

How do you make that comparison? Idah has played and scored in the premier league. They know his attributes. To be honest 5 million would be a good deal. 

Dolan was released by Preston and couldn't get in our struggling team ahead of loanees last season 

he has never scored in premier league only got 3 goals all at preston in cup

[Torgeir]

3 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

Although I think the club want cash only, I do think £15m + a player on a permanent deal is the best we could get. Gives us a player to cover the loss of Armstrong (in terms of bodies) and some money. 

If we sell and get no one, we are looking at Gallagher or an under 23 upfront all season. And we already know Gallagher isn't that great.

Not so sure. If there's a three-way bidding war going on, then Rovers should be able to push the fee up to £20m. The question is whether they have someone lined up already if they refuse all the swap proposals. If we end up selling Arma and replacing him with a loan player I'll be very disappointed.

[tomphil]

10 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

It is no way to run a long term club but sometimes you have to think of the near term. Whatever we have to say about Mowbray, Waggott or the “journey”, the here and now dictates we need bodies in

If the Armstrong deal frees up the finances to bring in the likes of Elliot then I’d be happy in the short term. If we start the season with the squad we have at the time of writing we could be looking at a tough year ahead.

Knowing this was coming going way back then i could be forgiven for thinking they might have had their eye on 1 or 2 as a long term replacement.

Obviously if you don't know what might or might not be made available to spend it makes it hard. It doesn't stop you identifying and scouting what might be suitable affordable targets though. That is where planning comes in and communication with the ownership. We have now a CEO and manager who have been here years and got continual backing. We also have a go between from the owners to here, allegedly. So the chain is there and if you don't get answers then demand them.

I suspect that is where it all falls down, everybody just shrugs the shoulders at each other and carries on picking wages up.

Dilemmas like this only get dealt with if and when they actually happen so that's why there is so much short termism.  Most transfers are done with a deposit and stage payments. We've signed plenty before under Vs so it really isn't as difficult as it's made out to be. The whole football industry revolves around it.

You are right though we need quality from somewhere just to guarantee championship football again.

 

[neophox]

Venkys do have cash.....The FFP rules gives us only problems... I think you need to scrap FFP due to covid situation.

[Exiled_Rover]

22 minutes ago, JHRover said:

You really must have been born yesterday if you believe the state of the club is down to FFP rules.

I notice you didn't answer my question about relegation. I hope you aren't one of these who thinks we are too good to go down.

The 20 million loss is due to Covid.

Isn't it amazing how no other clubs have ended up in sudden dire straits and having to slash costs and sell players to achieve compliance

Almost as though it is unique to Rovers. Wonder why that could be.

The £20m loss is due to Mowbray having carte blanche.

Did we really need Downing back last year? What did he take home, a couple of million? What about Douglas? Mulgrew Bennett? The amount of money he's spaffed on wages for shit players / players that don't even get a game is absurd.

[Danny O.Brien]

Wouldn't be the worst deal if we can get idah as well. I'm not saying he's as good as Armstrong but he's better than what we've got. Money wise it's about as good as we can hope for on a player with less than a year on their contract. 

[chaddyrovers]

14 minutes ago, JHRover said:

You really must have been born yesterday if you believe the state of the club is down to FFP rules.

I notice you didn't answer my question about relegation. I hope you aren't one of these who thinks we are too good to go down.

The 20 million loss is due to Covid.

Isn't it amazing how no other clubs have ended up in sudden dire straits and having to slash costs and sell players to achieve compliance

Almost as though it is unique to Rovers. Wonder why that could be.

We need to raise funds to meet FFP threshold of losses only of 39 million pounds over 3 seasons but we have lost 39 million in the last 2 club accounts/seasons so its ain't got owt to do Covid. The owners backed Mowbray again last seasons with signings and higher wage bill last season than ever. And Mowbray failed to deliver promotion. 

Other clubs don't have our high wages compare to our turnover and clubs sell players for money during the 3 year period but  we haven't apart from Raya. Thats it. Mowbray has spent 20 million in transfer fees here and plus wages. He has been financial back and not deliver. 

Yes we know they are other reasons why the club is in the state it is. But we have discuss this haven't we?

I think the squad is good enough to stay up and we can keep bringing through our young quality players

7 minutes ago, JHRover said:

 

January 2016 we sell Rhodes. Very similar comments on here then about it being something we needed to do, was the reality of where we were, that it would provide good funds to rebuild the squad.

Rhodes was always going to be sold cos Lambert didn't want Rhodes and his playing style doesn't fit Lambert who wants a Target man striker like Graham then skilful striker like Watt or pacey striker like Jackson. 

It was clear from pretty much when Lambert came in

[Torgeir]

3 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

The £20m loss is due to Mowbray having carte blanche.

Did we really need Downing back last year? What did he take home, a couple of million? What about Douglas? Mulgrew Bennett? The amount of money he's spaffed on wages for shit players / players that don't even get a game is absurd.

Rewarding players for promotion by handing out new contracts was a big mistake when it was glaring obvious that some of them weren't up to the task of Championship football.