Tony Mowbray's Reign...& is he off to Sunderland ?

[roversfan99]

14 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

I guess if I was driving you/family members and I did two terrible and dangerous pieces of driving that you wouldn't be so sanguine if it were only moments or if we got away with and didn't crash. Likewise with these situations. It shows he can't be trusted as a manager. 

Added to which if it goes down to goal difference would we regret that first half Vs Derby? (Unlikely scenario I know.) Plus there are many instances of other poor choices of playing players out of position albeit not quite as odd as these. 

Nonsense? Hardly? Not sure how else you would interpret his comments.

Also worth noting on Armstrong there was no attempt to replace him even with a free transfer / loan / lower league punt. Hampered by budget, possibly. But blatantly ignored the issue too. 

Your wreckless driving analogy is not comparable in any way shape or form.

Both tactical decisions I like everyone else found them to be illogical. But we won the Derby game yet due credit is not given for that whereas he would be rightfully criticised if we had lost.

There were attempts to replace Armstrong, just failed ones hindered by a minimal budget. He tried to get Obafemi in a swap but he didnt want to come, and he also tried to get Maja on loan but he failed a medical.

[tomphil]

For crying out loud he was orchestrating the first half of that Derby game and we were plain awful and losing 1-0.

He sat in the dugout the vast majority of the second half and Venus was clearly instructing the team and prepping the subs. We won 3 - 1 so maybe we should be crediting the coaching staff for that before the manager.

He was back orchestrating it on the sidelines the game after, we were poor again mostly and lost.

[roversfan99]

Credit others when we win and criticise Mowbray when we lose.

[rigger]

14 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Your wreckless driving analogy is not comparable in any way shape or form.

Both tactical decisions I like everyone else found them to be illogical. But we won the Derby game yet due credit is not given for that whereas he would be rightfully criticised if we had lost.

There were attempts to replace Armstrong, just failed ones hindered by a minimal budget. He tried to get Obafemi in a swap but he didnt want to come, and he also tried to get Maja on loan but he failed a medical.

I would expect anyone to rectify an error, not give them plaudits for doing it.

[rigger]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Credit others when we win and criticise Mowbray when we lose.

I am constant, I critises Mowbray for everything.

[Blue blood]

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Your wreckless driving analogy is not comparable in any way shape or form.

Strongly disagree. The point is that the issue should not be solely judged on whether it was "got away with" or not. The point also stands that no one in the right mind should or would do it. 

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Both tactical decisions I like everyone else found them to be illogical. But we won the Derby game yet due credit is not given for that whereas he would be rightfully criticised if we had lost.

See above. And yes some credit should be given for rectifying it, but more scrutiny should be given to the idiocy before hand because of how unprofessional it was. 

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

There were attempts to replace Armstrong, just failed ones hindered by a minimal budget. He tried to get Obafemi in a swap but he didnt want to come, and he also tried to get Maja on loan but he failed a medical.

Neither of whom were signed. Attempts and achievements are different things. And goodness it's not like they didn't have time to provide a whole list of potential candidates. Fact is despite it being obvious Armstrong was going we didn't get in a replacement. 

[AllRoverAsia]

15 minutes ago, tomphil said:

For crying out loud he was orchestrating the first half of that Derby game and we were plain awful and losing 1-0.

He sat in the dugout the vast majority of the second half and Venus was clearly instructing the team and prepping the subs. We won 3 - 1 so maybe we should be crediting the coaching staff for that before the manager.

He was back orchestrating it on the sidelines the game after, we were poor again mostly and lost.

And the players who spoke up at HT. Even Mowbray acknowledged that happened.

It amazes me that some dismiss entirely what actually happened during that game.

[Miller11]

35 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Credit others when we win and criticise Mowbray when we lose.

Ordinarily I’d have to agree with you on this, but there was something very much out of the ordinary that happened in that game.

 

This was 12 months ago:

I can’t think of another manager that would get such a free pass for such a disrespectful comment.

The sulking we saw against Cardiff, when the team were playing well for the first time in months, is nothing new. It’s also why I think he will be off of his own accord at the end of his contract, and a contributing factor in why I think it’s a good thing.

 

[tomphil]

The transition to possession which effectively wasted two seasons needs an airing here as well. That was down to him and lets not forget his delusional comments as it went pear shaped. He frequently said he was happy after defeats because he thought certain individuals played well. 

That was bizarre in itself but gave a massive indication as to his mindset and how he sees himself in a different light. Hes rightly had credit for ditching it this season so he isn't getting panned for the bad stuff whilst the good is ignored. 

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Miller11 said:

It’s also why I think he will be off of his own accord at the end of his contract, and a contributing factor in why I think it’s a good thing.

If Mowbray's contract is up then won't Venus, Lowe and Benson contracts be up aswell?

[Miller11]

11 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

If Mowbray's contract is up then won't Venus, Lowe and Benson contracts be up aswell?

I hope so.

[chaddyrovers]

6 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

I hope so.

surely that would be logically since they are Mowbray's appointment tho Kaminski has praised Benson coaching method and getting the best from him. 

A new manager/head coach should be allow to bring in his own staff to a point.  

[davulsukur]

35 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

surely that would be logically since they are Mowbray's appointment tho Kaminski has praised Benson coaching method and getting the best from him. 

A new manager/head coach should be allow to bring in his own staff to a point.  

And Kaminski will say the same things about the next goalkeeper coach he trains with.

[chaddyrovers]

5 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

And Kaminski will say the same things about the next goalkeeper coach he trains with.

if you want to be that view point. Kaminski didn't need to mention him but he did. So that's tell a story in my opinion 

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

If Mowbray's contract is up then won't Venus, Lowe and Benson contracts be up aswell?

That's why they'll all be getting new ones otherwise it's a massive change or find someone who will just work with them and vice versa.

Option 2 is Venus or Johnson stepping up of course, neither is a good idea imo so it really is going to be the devil we know. Just pray that they hand out sensible contracts not 3 years or more.

[MarkBRFC]

16 hours ago, Blue blood said:

Brilliant post. Post of the Year imo. 

Few minor tweaks in my book to an exceptional summary.

Firstly the club was chronically underfunded under Coyle who well and truly made the mess even worse. With no windows to rectify it and having (one of?) the highest points totals ever for going down, whilst TM is culpable there's far too many mitigate it. In my lifetime I can't remember any manager who saved us from relegation starting as late as he did. Also there were some positive changes on that season under him so I struggle to apportion too much to blame him for that.

That said when you see Warnock pull Rotherham out of the mire in harder circumstances or some of Big Sam's escapes you realise that he's not a top tier manager. 

Secondly the Diaz situation - contraversial but I am not sure how much of a success we can count it. It's hard to factor in opportunity costs but how many clubs can wait 4 years for a transfer to come good, and one who was their entire budget at that? I've said it numerous times but that £7 million invested well giving more of a contribution in any of the last 3 previous seasons could have made a gigantic difference to our success. 

You are dead wrong about Walton. Average was aspirational for the chap. He was absymal making the swap even worse. Another negative of TM was he never once dropped him even though he clearly was in terrible form. Both aspects of this were criminal. 

Maybe it's me - you do mention it but it really grinds my gears - but a huge negative has always been that we lurch from one player recruitment crisis to another throughout his tenure. Dack wasn't properly covered in either of his two lengthy injuries (despite multiple windows) and a rediculous shortage of defenders year after year leaving us playing kids and Johnson there. Armstrong wasn't replaced. It's really poor - at least try and replace them. Substandard recruitment is one thing. Not trying is something else entirely. 

So yeah a 5 at best EXCEPT then there are his comments. Anyone whose comments could be mistaken for Kean is pretty scummy really. In near 30 years of supporting Rovers I have never ever been accused of expecting a 95 rerun. That's disgraceful for a manager to suggest it. Then there's the inciting fans to action against those who criticise the team amongst a whole load of other bull. Knocks him down at least one mark in my opinion. 

Then there's the playing players rediculously out of position. All managers do it apparently but none, utterly none not even clueless ones like Ince and Coyle would play Gally at right back or Johnson as a false 9. It's so common with him and it's beyond basic - a 12 year old Rovers fan wouldn't do these kind of mistakes. What might have been had he not been so stupid?

Factor in all of this and he gets a 4 at best. As you say "some journey"

 

To be fair i said he was bang average at his absolute best, i do share your views that most of the time he was abysmal.

I didn't really factor in some of his comments over the past 5 years, as all managers speak mostly bollocks. That 1995 one though, yeah that's a fair point. Shows the kind of man he is in my opinion. He's not the honest, humble 1970's "football" man that he and a lot of others would have you believe.

[Gav]

16 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

And the players who spoke up at HT. Even Mowbray acknowledged that happened.

It amazes me that some dismiss entirely what actually happened during that game.

Players having arguments with each other happens all the time in dressing rooms, its hardly anything new.

One posters claimed, during the match, 'Mowbray has lost the dressing room' which is complete and utter garbage of course, but seized upon by the regular posse and they're still running with it now.

Its all very 'blazing saddles'.......

[Upside Down]

He's a bottler plain and simple. 

He can pull it together and get the team really humming. Unfortunately he can only manage to do that when it doesn't count for anything.

This is the reason it always turns to shit in January. It's all well and good going on a winning streak in November, there is no pressure. Come January and you have to make the results count. That's when it all goes south. Then a good run again at the end of the season when there is nothing to play for. 

He even bottled it when it came to winning the 3rd Division. 

His record in derby games is poor also. Again these are games that count and mean something. 

At the end of the day he just ain't got the bottle to achieve anything other than a mid table plod.

[MarkBRFC]

16 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

If Mowbray's contract is up then won't Venus, Lowe and Benson contracts be up aswell?

Lowe and Benson were here prior to Mowbray weren't they? Or did they all sign contract extensions at the same time with Mowbray?

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, MarkBRFC said:

Lowe and Benson were here prior to Mowbray weren't they? Or did they all sign contract extensions at the same time with Mowbray?

Yes they were but given that Mowbray has been for 5 years now, its very likely I would have thought they have sign contract extension during that period 

[Mike E]

On 26/03/2022 at 21:29, Upside Down said:

So nothing like Souness then.

Or Howard Kendall for that matter.

Exactly my point.

[Mike E]

2 hours ago, MarkBRFC said:

Lowe and Benson were here prior to Mowbray weren't they? Or did they all sign contract extensions at the same time with Mowbray?

I've heard it from several different sources that Lowe was actually sacked at one point, and then personally rehired by Balaji.

I think this was around the Lambert/Coyle times.

[Upside Down]

3 hours ago, Mike E said:

I've heard it from several different sources that Lowe was actually sacked at one point, and then personally rehired by Balaji.

I think this was around the Lambert/Coyle times.

So he's got the right agent then.

[riverholmes]

Excuse me for a random post but it occurred to me that this season the following, I believe, have all played in the centre forward position (albeit, not necessarily as centre forwards): Buckley, Dolan, Brereton, Clarkson, Poveda, Hedges? Johnson. As far as I remember, the obvious centre forward, Gallagher, hasn't played there - not for any length of time, anyway.

Aside from Brereton, who has, I believe, got most of his goals from a left wing/forward role, that list consists of midfielders who have barely scored any goals - and in some cases, literally not scored any goals. Herein lies Mowbray's unforgivable failing. Even if we get promoted, I consider it a tactical failure. The central forward must score goals. It's a sign of the irrationality that has taken hold that this needs stating.

I'm increasingly of the opinion that we will look back at this season in a way like we should do last, when we had Adam Armstrong and Harvey Elliot in the squad and finished 15th. But for a sensible formation and tactics, we would be doing much better. In this season's case, much better would be pushing for automatic promotion.

Edited March 28, 2022 by riverholmes

[J*B]

I struggle to bring myself to log on to website I’m the admin of such is my disdain for Tony’s management since January. That sums it up really.