Tony Mowbray's Reign...& is he off to Sunderland ?

[Blue blood]

57 minutes ago, JHRover said:

"Still in the play off picture"

"The play offs are still there if we can do x,y,z"

We never learn do we?

The whole point in the play-off system is that a majority of clubs will be in with a 'chance' of getting in there right up until the final few games of the season, especially IF they suddenly embark on a rich run of form and string some wins together. I'd say anyone down to Swansea in 16th - 11 points behind us but with 2 games in hand - can argue they are still in with a chance. IF they win all their remaining games they might get into the top 6. But they are 16th.

The point to what I am saying here is that unless we are marooned in the bottom cluster of clubs we will always have 'a chance' of the play-offs up until the last few games. Anyone who has watched our performances and results particularly precious points squandered through ineptitude against Bristol City, Sheffield United, Reading and Coventry knows that it isn't happening yet presumably you would keep a manager purely on the basis we are still in with a chance of the play-offs.

Then next season starts and we will be in with a chance of the play-offs again all the way through to March or April unless we are in the bottom 6 because that's how it is in the Football League. It is why the Play-offs were introduced.

No there's a lot more to it than simply glancing at the table, gleaning a 'chance' of the play-offs from position and points and persevering regardless of results and performances until it is mathematically gone. 

If anyone at ownership or executive level had any interest or idea they would have watched the last 3 months with horror and would have contemplated a managerial change. You have to be proactive and review performances and results not just kick back and let events unfold or continue no problems because we are still higher than we expected to be. 

4 wins in 17 this year and 9 goals scored - two of which were in the cup against League One opposition. It is dismal and whether we are 6th or 22nd it can't be allowed to continue.

No manager in the world should be protected from criticism following horrendous results by virtue that his team - that he has signed, coached and selected - is making mistakes. It just doesn't work like that.

Great post. Although it's not like we have failed off badly before or anything... 

Given its happened 4 years with the same manager surely he should be carrying the can for this. Only at Rovers would someone be bulletproof despite collapse after collapse. 

[windymiller7]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Isn't Michael O'Neill staying at Stoke and the owners seem to be sticking with him and allowing him the summer to turn it around

Don't know mate. Just going off the rumour that was posted on here a couple of pages back.

[martonrover]

Coming this midweek, it’s “We’re only ‘x’ points from the Play Offs” Season 21/22.

[BlackburnEnd75]

: “I debate every week what system to go with.

“I’d say three of our most consistent players have been the back three.

“You couldn’t say that Lenihan, van Hecke and Wharton have been paramount to our success this year, but to leave one of them out and to play a back four, it’s a difficult decision for me to make.

“I always feel ‘let’s try and keep a clean sheet, see if we can nick a goal, win 1-0, and if we can if need to change it, we can always change it as we did at half time and the goals started to come’.

Some of Mowbrays problems highlighted in this post match interview

The back 5 worked well when we had a fully fit brereton and khadra providing counter attacking options. The second half of this season perfectly highlights mowbrays often 'fixed mentality'. In mowbrays head this is the plan and we can't deviate from it, last season it was passing possession football on bad pitches when results had dried up. 18/19 it was sit deeper and hoofball. It's gally on the wing for years, it's Rothwell not being trusted on the wing, it's whichever midfielder is a false 9 (holtby and Buckley) that's there role in the team. He could adapt now but he doesn't because that's what the rule is, this is how we do things (until we don't). 

Next week we will likely either go 5 at the back or start Lenihan at right back. Why? Because he says it there, he can't make the tough decision. The 3 Centre half's have played well but the team needs the change and if he gives us the change we will get lenihan in place of an actual right back because he likes square pegs in round holes and nyambe has always been expendable to that trait.

We need to win games now, I'm not sure keep it tight and hope for the best is the best formula. Whichever formation we play we have to impress ourself on the opposition, I find the suggestion of doing the opposite quite defeatist but perhaps that's just me.

[chaddyrovers]

25 minutes ago, windymiller7 said:

Don't know mate. Just going off the rumour that was posted on here a couple of pages back.

That what I said Michael O'Neill saying this week 

[chaddyrovers]

 

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

If anyone at ownership or executive level had any interest or idea they would have watched the last 3 months with horror and would have contemplated a managerial change. You have to be proactive and review performances and results not just kick back and let events unfold or continue no problems because we are still higher than we expected to be. 

4 wins in 17 this year and 9 goals scored - two of which were in the cup against League One opposition. It is dismal and whether we are 6th or 22nd it can't be allowed to continue.

I am fully aware of all the stats involving the current run of results and goals scored and conceded since the 1st of January. 

I wouldn't have made any managerial change within the last couple of months despite the results. I don't believe a change of manager would have much difference. Just look how long its took Bruce at West Brom or Hughes at Bradford who have had very limited impact. I think a managerial change is needed for next season and given Mowbray's comments pre match about no contract offer yet from the club or the owners I think he is off whatever happens this season unless we are promoted. 

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

No manager in the world should be protected from criticism following horrendous results by virtue that his team - that he has signed, coached and selected - is making mistakes. It just doesn't work like that.

I have never said Mowbray should be protected from any criticism have I? I was very critical of his recent team selections and formations being used and I believe that he is far too stubborn to admit that the back 3 from the start of the game isn't working and we aren't solid any more with that formation. 

But I do think that the players have to shoulder some of the criticism and the results we have had in games since January. You want to give them a free pass and pin everything on Mowbray. So when we win is all down to Mowbray and none of the players deserve any praise for the win. Thanks for that being your stance for future reference 

[Wheelton Blue]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

I am fully aware of all the stats involving the current run of results and goals scored and conceded since the 1st of January. 

I wouldn't have made any managerial change within the last couple of months despite the results. I don't believe a change of manager would have much difference. Just look how long its took Bruce at West Brom or Hughes at Bradford who have had very limited impact. I think a managerial change is needed for next season and given Mowbray's comments pre match about no contract offer yet from the club or the owners I think he is off whatever happens this season unless we are promoted. 

I have never said Mowbray should be protected from any criticism have I? I was very critical of his recent team selections and formations being used and I believe that he is far too stubborn to admit that the back 3 from the start of the game isn't working and we aren't solid any more with that formation. 

But I do think that the players have to shoulder some of the criticism and the results we have had in games since January. You want to give them a free pass and pin everything on Mowbray. So when we win is all down to Mowbray and none of the players deserve any praise for the win. Thanks for that being your stance for future reference 

A change of manager may not have made a difference, or maybe it would have done. Who knows? You'd have to go some to do a worse job than Mowbray though.

Having a new manager in place now would have allowed them time to evaluate the squad in advance of next season. Assuming Mowbray does go in the summer, whoever does come in willl instead go into next season from a standing start.

Opportunity missed, but that's not a surprise with this lot.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Wheelton Blue

[Gav]

20 minutes ago, Wheelton Blue said:

A change of manager may not have made a difference, or maybe it would have done. Who knows? You'd have to go some to do a worse job than Mowbray though.

Although the bar has been set extremely low due to our inept owners,  with a promotion and top 6 for most of this seasons, he’s actually been our most successful manager of the Venky era.

The 8 managers before clearly did a worse job in my opinion. 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Gav

[den]

4 minutes ago, Gav said:

Although the bar has been set extremely low due to our inept owners,  with a promotion and top 6 for most of this seasons, he’s actually been our most successful manager of the Venky era.

The 8 managers before clearly did a worse job in my opinion. 

You seem to be doing your best to defend Mowbray’s record as rovers manager Gav. I honestly don’t know why.

5 years now and this has been his best, yet unless something happens now to leave us all dumbfounded, it’s ending in a massive disappointment.

Why would any fan want to continue with him in charge next season? What do you honestly think next season holds and what have you seen to make you believe he’s the best man to get us promotion?

[Exiled_Rover]

12 minutes ago, Gav said:

Although the bar has been set extremely low due to our inept owners,  with a promotion and top 6 for most of this seasons, he’s actually been our most successful manager of the Venky era.

The 8 managers before clearly did a worse job in my opinion. 

Some of them weren't allowed the time to do a worse job...

[1864roverite]

Maybe he surprised himself Den😂

[DE.]

7 minutes ago, Gav said:

Although the bar has been set extremely low due to our inept owners,  with a promotion and top 6 for most of this seasons, he’s actually been our most successful manager of the Venky era.

The 8 managers before clearly did a worse job in my opinion. 

None of the other managers managed us in League 1, so you can't really use that promotion as a legitimate comparison point. I suspect you already know that.

As far as being the most successful of our past managers, that isn't exactly a high yardstick. Kean was the worst manager the club has ever had. Bar none. I doubt anybody will ever come close to the disaster that was his tenure. Berg, Appleton and Lambert were here for a cup of coffee. No useful comparison to be made. Coyle was useless but also only here for something like eight months. Mowbray will have to finish above 8th to better Bowyer, as otherwise his Rovers teams have always finished below where Bowyer placed us in his full seasons at the club regardless of whether we were in the top six for 'x' amount of time. Final league finish is all that ultimately matters, as unfortunately you don't get extra points for time spent in the playoff spots. 

[roversfan99]

Has Gav said that he wants Mowbray in charge next season or that he is the best man to get us promotion? 

If so, fair enough I totally disagree and think thats crazy. But if not, why is it assumed that if anyone questions the at times personal, hyperbolic nonsense about the manager, that it equates to thinking that hes a really good manager.

[den]

5 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Has Gav said that he wants Mowbray in charge next season or that he is the best man to get us promotion? 

If so, fair enough I totally disagree and think thats crazy. But if not, why is it assumed that if anyone questions the at times personal, hyperbolic nonsense about the manager, that it equates to thinking that hes a really good manager.

No, to be fair I don’t think he has said that.

Edited April 3, 2022 by den

[Armchair supporter supremo]

2 hours ago, Gav said:

Although the bar has been set extremely low due to our inept owners,  with a promotion and top 6 for most of this seasons, he’s actually been our most successful manager of the Venky era.

The 8 managers before clearly did a worse job in my opinion. 

Most of the managers before Mowbray where either odious cretins(kean) or having to work under absolute chaos in all quarters with no support and little to no money, Mowbrays had pretty much a free ride his entire time here with seemingly little to no pressure on him from above or even any real serious objectives to get us promoted ot of the championship!!

 

In my opinion.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Armchair supporter supremo

[Gav]

47 minutes ago, Armchair supporter supremo said:

Most of the managers before Mowbray where either odious cretins(kean) or having to work under absolute chaos in all quarters with no support and little to no money

Its all about opinions Armchair and yours is as valid as the next posters. 

I don't think Mowbray has been treated any differently to the rest of them.

Just recently he wanted to sell Rothwell in my opinion, blocked by the owners, his European scout found Kaminsky, then was sacked. He had his budget pulled in the summer and missed out on every number 1 target, the owners promised to replace the pitch, then pulled the plug and the list goes on.

Every manager that has taken the role in the past 11yrs has had 1 hand tied behind his back, King rat aside….

Edited April 3, 2022 by Gav

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

12 hours ago, Gav said:

Thanks for posting that Mike, it gives some context, he was obviously pissed off with Baynes questions, thats quite clear.

There is no excuse for that Gav..a parting of the ways is better for ALL come season end.

His race is run....just like our hopeless owners.

Edited April 3, 2022 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[simongarnerisgod]

26 minutes ago, Gav said:

Its all about opinions Armchair and yours is as valid as the next posters. 

I don't think Mowbray has been treated any differently to the rest of them.

Just recently he wanted to sell Rothwell in my opinion, blocked by the owners, his European scout found Kaminsky, then was sacked. He had his budget pulled in the summer and missed out on every number 1 target, the owners promised to replace the pitch, then pulled the plug and the list goes on.

Every manager that has taken the role in the past 11yrs has had 1 hand tied behind his back.

venkys have given mowbray plenty of money,he`s wasted a lot of it,so much so the indians won`t give him any more,they`ve backed mowbray more than any other manager in their charge,i wish them gone as much as you,but you can`t blame them for mowbray being a **** manager

[roversfan99]

Plenty of money? He got 500k of an 8 figure fee generated from one of his signings this season.

Wasted a lot of it? Main 3 signings cost 15m. One was sold for not far off that and a second will be sold this summer for even more. 

Cant blame them? If he is so shit, surely they should act rationally and sack him.

This bizarre justification that Venkys are entitled not to give the manager money thinking that hes wasted it previously, as if thats a thing. If you dont trust the manager to spend money, then surely again you sack him? You dont withhold spending money on the team.

[47er]

If we were going into next season with this current squad I'd have reasonable anticipation of a promotion campaign. need a couple of additions but not much.

So, in a way, that is good evidence of progress over the years. The squad is significantly stronger than the one he inherited.

But you'd expect that over 5 years wouldn't you?

And, most sadly, the squad that starts next season is likely to be very different from the one that started this.

It will be hard to fill the gaps. Moreover he will still play the wrong players in the wrong places, his tactics and subs will continue to confuse us all and he will never get the best out of any squad.

He's run his course and its time for change. 

Change of owners would be for the best, I agree Gav, but we seem to be stuck with them forever. 

 

[chaddyrovers]

13 hours ago, Wheelton Blue said:

A change of manager may not have made a difference, or maybe it would have done. Who knows? You'd have to go some to do a worse job than Mowbray though.

Having a new manager in place now would have allowed them time to evaluate the squad in advance of next season. Assuming Mowbray does go in the summer, whoever does come in willl instead go into next season from a standing start.

Opportunity missed, but that's not a surprise with this lot.

The focus is on this season and tbh next season squad problems and evaluate can wait until the summer for. Its all about getting a playoff place that it. 

We are still in the playoff picture even after this bad run. So I still wouldn't have sack him and tbh I think we would have been crazy to do so. So I don't see it any opportunity missed at all

on your point the new manager is starting from a standing start, well that's isn't correct cos the recruitment team have still be doing their work in the background and will have a different list for each position as we heard Mowbray confirm last week. Plus a new manager will be already without Nyambe and Rothwell cos they want to leave and move away from the area. Reason why they haven't sign a new contract

[RoversClitheroe]

Can anyone explain to me why Gallagher and Hedges - both not great get in ahead of Dolan week in week out? 

[Wheelton Blue]

32 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

The focus is on this season and tbh next season squad problems and evaluate can wait until the summer for. Its all about getting a playoff place that it. 

We are still in the playoff picture even after this bad run. So I still wouldn't have sack him and tbh I think we would have been crazy to do so. So I don't see it any opportunity missed at all

on your point the new manager is starting from a standing start, well that's isn't correct cos the recruitment team have still be doing their work in the background and will have a different list for each position as we heard Mowbray confirm last week. Plus a new manager will be already without Nyambe and Rothwell cos they want to leave and move away from the area. Reason why they haven't sign a new contract

You're assuming that a new manager would actually want any players on such a list, that he wouldn't have a list of his own, and that the recruitment team themselves would still be at the club.

Any manager worth his salt would pick his own players.

Just because Mowbray says he is planning for next season, in spite of not knowing whether he knows himself whether he'll be here or not, doesn't mean that they actually are.

[Exiled_Rover]

19 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Can anyone explain to me why Gallagher and Hedges - both not great get in ahead of Dolan week in week out? 

Hedges has yet to start a game and has about 80 mins total on the pitch since he arrived.

[AllRoverAsia]

47 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

The focus is on this season and tbh next season squad problems and evaluate can wait until the summer for. Its all about getting a playoff place that it. 

We are still in the playoff picture even after this bad run. So I still wouldn't have sack him and tbh I think we would have been crazy to do so. So I don't see it any opportunity missed at all

on your point the new manager is starting from a standing start, well that's isn't correct cos the recruitment team have still be doing their work in the background and will have a different list for each position as we heard Mowbray confirm last week. Plus a new manager will be already without Nyambe and Rothwell cos they want to leave and move away from the area. Reason why they haven't sign a new contract

The both want to leave for better wages. Nyambe wants more to finance his projects in Namibia.

Moving away from the area is not a driving factor, both will go to whomever pays more.