I’m sorry Paul, but it really has bewildered me that running Blackburn Rovers sensibly has been made to look as arduous as sewing in sparring mitts, but that is how it has been presented throughout this near decade long malaise of desperate despair and unease. I just can’t see how the Raos can carry on this sickening pretence any longer. They have proven emphatically over the years that they do not have the wherewithal, the gumption, the vision, the acumen and most critically the contrition and sincerity, to ingratiate themselves with the good upstanding loyal folk who support this club, who have powered and continue to power this club for 144 years. The damage is there for all to see in the form of empty seats. Seats that are a legacy of a severe and unforgivable betrayal of trust. Seats that are now the subtle thief of those long lost feelings of unity and belonging to a club that we hold so dear. Seats that should have been filled with the next generation of enthusiasts. That’s a generation lost and for a club and town our size that is profoundly damaging, present and future. It’s the uncomfortable reality of the situation, but the existing conditions just make the whole club less and less appealing by the day. We all try to contend resolutely with this, perhaps annulling it until the next humiliating derby defeat, the next Ewood no show against newly promoted opposition, the next head-scratching managerial soundbite, the next stand closure, the next sale of a crucial player and so on. But who, in their heart of hearts, can say that they are even merely satisfied with the custodians of our fine club? Everyone of us can accept I’m sure that supporting Rovers will always be accompanied by its share of lows with the highs. Defeats, adversity and even relegation can galvanise a club. But nothing ever changes here; the anguish, the weariness, the bitterness, the helplessness, it never seems to decrease in intensity. Ewood is a totally despondent, forlorn and morose place and that is the owners biggest violation: They’ve removed the hope and the smile from that magnificent edifice on Nuttall St. and worse still shown no remorse in doing so

I'm afraid the club has dug its own grave in relation to attendances and atmosphere at Ewood and it is going to be very difficult to turn that around now from what amounts to a prolonged decline. Some will try and put their heads in the sand and say the decline is mostly natural and a result of life outside the Premier League but I don't entirely buy that cop out of an excuse which seems to be based on 30-40 year old attendance figures for the pre-Jack Walker era (lets be honest such figures have little to no relevance in 2019 given the changes in society, football and stadia) When the club was managed by competent people like John Williams there was a recognition that ongoing efforts needed to be made by the club to boost attendances and the atmosphere. The club came up with the idea of putting home fans behind both goals by opening part of the DE Lower up to home fans and making it 'different' to the rest of the ground by making it cheaper and offering unreserved seating and essentially an unofficial standing area. This lasted reasonably well for 7-8 years despite zero efforts from the club to promote it or encourage people to take flags etc. in there. I went in a couple of times. Not my cup of tea for a number of reasons but i got why some people liked it and that was the obvious place to try and grow and develop a singing/standing/banners and flags area - otherwise empty and right next to the away fans where the atmosphere is easiest to generate between opposing fans. Sadly the money focused people thought they could save a few quid by shutting that stand down. No effort at all made to relocate this area to an adjacent stand. The Lower JW corner unsuitable for such an idea anyway due to its location and size. This followed similar efforts to save a few quid by shutting down the BBE Upper and forcibly relocating season ticket holders in both the BBE upper and JW lower, in the process annoying plenty of people. The folk who are paid to 'manage' matchdays at Ewood quite happy with this new arrangement. Less areas to police. A wrecking ball swung at the most 'troublesome' area of home fans with those numbers plummeting and the diaspora of those remaining across the other 3 stands making them much less of a 'problem' for them to manage. Much better, much easier, much less hassle. Same salary at the end of the day. Why should they care? All this has happened irrespective of results and performances on the pitch (in the main these have been atrocious) and pricing of tickets (which have been escalated massively under the latest bloke claiming to be in charge). It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out why gates and atmospheres have dropped through the floor. Sadly there still seems to be a complete ignorance or refusal to accept that decisions made in the offices at Ewood are arguably the single biggest factor in all this. In 2016 they went for the triple whammy of allowing Lambert to walk out, antagonizing fans by appointing a failed dingle manager and then shutting down stands for good measure. What are they doing to address all that? Any fresh ideas? Nope. Just questioning fans commitment whilst continuing to serve up rubbish and then introducing punitive extra charges for good measure, moving away fans as far away as possible. Anyone who looks at what Huddersfield have done with what was their away end or even Reading whose gates are barely and better than ours in truth would be able to learn a thing or two. Sadly cheap and easy with minimal effort is the way of things these days.

Well said that man. Your second paragraph perfectly sums up the club's predicament. Of course, results on the pitch and the choice of manager are important to all Rovers' fans but the club itself and it's heritage are paramount. I understand that some people may consider my posts as waffle because I usually comment on the owners, not the football, but that to me is the most important issue at the moment. Something has to change at some point. Fan pressure can have an affect but after 10 years I think fatigue has set in for most people. One thing is for sure, we will still be here when Venky's have gone. I hope we still have a club to support.

It's because we have absentee owners who have no active participation in running the club. It creates a power vacuum which is quickly filled by status-seekers and jobs for the boys.

With respect, I think you are missing an important point Joe. The Under-23 team is not a separate club so players at that level don't have THEIR own team. The Academy and the Under-23's have one sole aim which is to help with development of players that will aid the progress of the senior team. It is why the rules of Premier League 2 allow for a certain number of over-age players in Under-23 football so that players coming back from injury or players not getting regular first team football can get 90 minutes of competitive football. The Lancashire Senior Cup, of course, is not an age-limited competition which is why you often get senior players appearing in that competition. Yesterday was unusual because Everton are playing PSV Under-21 in the International Cup today, hence a number of their Under-18's were drafted into their team whilst their Seniors were in Cup action last night. The likes of Ben Brereton, Jacob Davenport and Harry Chapman are all young enough to be involved in Under-23 football and if not getting regular football for the senior team I would expect them to be turning out for the Under-23's. Dominic Samuel has been able to aid his recovery from long term injury by playing for the Under-23's so that has benefited both the player and the club. I've watched the club's second string for the best part of 60 years now and the aim has always been the same - to prepare players to step into the senior team when required. Doesn't matter what name the competition goes by that aim is still the same.

True, but there are many clubs with absentee owners who fill that vacuum with high quality administrators who are expected to perform. Here we don't have Chairmen, CEOs, sporting directors, technical directors or other expertise. We have dodgy agents, tv pundits, part timers, snake oil salesmen and managers mates.

For the record calling your post "waffle" was unacceptable. The only reason I didn't hide it was because by the time I saw it there had already been some proper discussion generated from it and I didn't want to have to hide it all. Nothing wrong with your posts at all mate so keep going.

Sale of Rovers on this thread is way off topic. Weekends comments on the whole were as many of us expected. TM has done what he can and the longer the club waits to replace him or bring in a change at management level the deeper this crisis becomes. Doesn't look like change will happen which means we can expect the same process through team preparation and game time followed by in all probability this message board anger. Luton, Charlton to mention two games but also still fuming with the PNE result. TM's lack of appreciation for our faithful following, his team selection and his lack of tactics to change a game is annoying and results in negative feelings and game loss. Not looking forward to atmosphere on Saturday. We have the players, and I don't just mean senior level, but not the management structure under TM. We need gifted staff that can start bringing this club together on the pitch then the club can begin to climb this division. Pointless waiting as some have suggested, the club should have acted months ago and I fear this will continue to be the case in the coming months.

They've only sacked Keogh because he is injured and is no use for 15 months when he'll be 35. Surely the other two idiots who were driving and then fled the scene like two pathetic cowards should've been jailed, never mind sacked. The fact that they've not been sacked shows how hypocritical and corrupt a club you are dealing with. But then it is the same club who have signed Rooney and given him the number so they can advertise a betting firm and legally get kids who buy the shirt to advertise the firm legally. A scum house of a club that even makes us look good.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50242841 so surely they have to sack the other 2 or is this just because he was injured ?

‘We have more attacking talent than I can ever remember from a Rovers squad and that is testimony to Mowbray’s signings. There have been flashes and signs of progression and I trust Mowbray to find more consistency. Considering what he has rescued the club from, I believe he deserves the chance to see this project through. Kelvin Wilkins ‘ Kelvin is about 11 years old then, I take it?

Bundles have never worked. I bet single tickets for £20 (no tax) would have more success than 3 for £45. Just suppose you get a free Saturday unexpectedly, you have £20 spare. Ewood! £45 is a big wedge to a lot of people. Lots of people can't guarantee 3 free Saturdays. Imagine a local Combination fixture gets rained off on Saturday morning. 11 lads decide to go to Rovers. A bundle is no good.

It all comes down to a complete lack of organisation and discipline. This are the required attributes when put under pressure. It’s the need to intuitively no your role and that of each of the men around you and the discipline for each individual to stick to the plan regardless of opposition pressure. Examples england rugby v New Zealand, dalglish Hughes and alardyce rovers teams. Ferguson most of his teams. This come from the management and nowhere else. Mowbray I feel does not give any clear direction or leadership and then blames individuals for the failure to complete the task. Which has a general principle of management is poor in itself. There are countless examples of teams being greater than the sum of there parts due to organisation and discipline. We are I feel are a working example of how not to manage. finally has an aside before someone comes forward and says league one promotion. Mowbray by his own admission handed over organisation and discipline to the senior professionals. Isn’t it strange that the absence of Conway Mulgrew and the sidelining of Graham has left just Bennett coveting every position on the field and I suspect the dressing room. While Mowbray rejects responsibility for failure and blames it on the younger players. In my opinion and for the reasons above change is required and inevitable

Make your bloody mind up. Which is it?

Upton Sinclair once said - " It's difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it ".

They can sack the other two but they are worth too much money to just terminate their contracts and get no fee....Keogh has no value especially after this injury at his age. He may get a pay off through a tribunal as it seems excessive to me considering the other twos punishment

Is it 2011 again?

If you read that article it claims to know about a group of Rovers fans who don't want this takeover as their club would 'loose' its identity. Absolute horse**** pretending to be journalism. Direct quote: "most of Rover’s fans are keen on the idea of becoming rich club." Some child with access to Google translate had a dream last night after watching old Premiership highlights...

Quality posts like that are why I'll always prefer forums to facebook or twitter!

In my view to boost sales of the three game offer. ”All about creating (the illusion of) value”. People ask why Waggott isn’t seen as on the fans‘ side. They need to look at what he does with his pricing policies and not what he says. - ST prices have increased - Shirt costs have increased - Walk-on costs have rocketed - Food/drink prices have rocketed Meanwhile we have 1875 club incentives, tacky £350 lottery tickets to win 10k, pithy bundles trying to incentivise fans to buy into the higher pricing policy. “Buy a ST it’s cheaper” while putting up the price of everything else to make it appear so. While ignoring the fact that your average Blackburner doesn’t have a big wallet - and they aren’t even spending it in the pub (which is why the pub trade is shrinking as quickly as the Rovers fanbase!) If he doesn’t, can’t, or won’t try to understand - let alone increase - his catchment area, and look at a lower margin, higher volume model then we are never going to see the fanbase grow. Fortunately-well-off (I can afford it so should they) or die-hard (I’d rather follow Rovers and go without) fans may take a different view but they are already here! If you want to attract more affluent out of town folk then you need to make the brand a lot more appealing and floundering around with a manager whose ambition or ability will see us 14th at best isn’t going to work either. Billionaire owners and we are scratting around trying to increase revenues by tapping up the same beleaguered fans. Is it any wonder there is no atmosphere at Ewood and more vociferous fans would rather give their money to away clubs than to Rovers?

I remember playing Cardiff at home 1st game of the season on a Friday night live on TV just after they had been relegated. Darwen End lower divided between home and away fans. BBE upper open. 15,600 on. Maybe 2000 or so Cardiff fans on so 13000-14000 home fans. All areas of ground open. Felt good that night. The ground felt good and it was a good atmosphere. Now we are down to 10,000 with two stands closed it feels awful.

Whatever a reserve side is called these days, its purpose is the same.

It's a strange one anyway, £40 or not Sheff Wed haven't bought more than 3k here for years.

Agree - if these morons are as wealthy as we all think and their indifference to £200million of debt suggests they might be then I don’t get why they don’t do a proper job in hiring a proper manager and bankrolling is into the PL. that’s the only way they will get any significant sum back .Alternatively it’s death by a thousand cuts and ten years from now we’ll be saying the same things but half a billion in debt. makes zero sense and never has .

I wouldn't say that - more like 10% are acutely afraid of who his replacement would be...

Sure that article gets re-released every year...

Yep. That was when we all realised that we were, ultimately and forever, a small town club. Nothing wrong with that, but it was still a let down after the previous six years. What a dividing line, though. This was when not just BRFCS died, but when Blackburn died. Since then, we've had Panorama episodes on Shad and on us being the most racially divided town in the country. It's an arbitrary date. but it works. Blackburn's been dying a slow death ever since.

Last year. That's over 3000, closer to 4000. Looks like over 3000 in 2015 as well.

Since he made that claim we've had 2 matches out of more than 30 where the away following has taken up all or most of the Darwen End. Leeds and Preston at home. I'd be surprised if either sold out this season with Waggott's pricing.

Boro are the opposite of us, they have an owner that gives a shit and will do right by them. They’ve got goals when everyone is fit, they’ll be fine ....

The fear of us getting a worse replacement must be weighing heavy on many fans too. Another legacy of Kean and Coyle is all other managers look mega stars in comparison. Thus both expectations of what a manager could do and hope any new man would be better are at rock bottom. For me, I think we're picking up downwards momentum and TM, who was never that good, has completely lost it, and therefore think the risks are minimal in a replacement. I also don't think a club can prosper when the manager choses his own boss and that needs sorting too. (Ideally Venkys bog off too but thinking realistically the first 2 things can and need to happen.) However with Coyle the last but one appointment I can see why fans are wary. For me the rewards outweigh the risks of continuing our free fall under TM but even so, even the most ardent of Tony Out stance fans will be more than a little nervous as to who comes into the hotseat. Not that it matters - he is as safe as houses with this lot in charge.

Paul Simon - You Can Call Me Al

Absolutely true story. I sat with my mate on Sat aft having told him there was no chance we’d leave deep dale with a single point. He laughed as the second one went in but in absolutely the same way as you ‘knew’ I turned to him with my phone saying I was that confident that I’d have a tenner on us to lose at that point. I got 9-1 at BV and the rest is history. I’ve never done that since Kean. The teams ability to implode is written into Mowbrays regime now. He’s consistently terrible at managing games to a favourable end and that’s the reason why I personally now want a change.

Whats the point, the club treat us with contempt, and couldnt care less. Nobody can be assed anymore, weve tried for 9 years now, most have given up and dont go anymore.

You have a point, Harry is very prone to impact head injuries

I think a lot more than 10 percent are afraid of that, despite voting Go The only real chance of Rovers ever prospering in the future is for the crap of Pune to be flushed down the toilet. Until then a manager is just a man on a high salary

VENKYS

Except when he won the match at Hull by saving a penalty

Yes - they scored 3 goals

Jim Wilkinson who’s an ex journo himself has tweeted...

Saddest stat is that Kean is the only manager to have us in the automatic promotion spots and he had us in the top 6 longer than all of the following managers put together. That's how shit we've been.

If only. We couldn't be so lucky like that twice though could we?

Absolute rubbish. The pressure such as it is is amongst the fan base is coming because Mowbray is doing a crap job, has performed extremely badly for the last twelve months and has recruited disastrously in the last 3 transfer windows. It's nothing whatsoever to do with the fact he might have said we were aiming for top ten or top six or whatever. In any event, aiming to try and make the top six is a relatively modest target and should be every Club's aspiration. It's not like we're saying we expect one of the top two spots or saying we need 100 points or something which would be somewhat unrealistic. If however the reports above are correct and the owners and those behind the scenes are burying their head in the sand and trying to pretend nothing is wrong then more fool them and I hope the Club don't act all surprised when we are relegated and try and blame it on injuries or circumstances beyond our control when we were already short on quality in certain areas and compounded it by letting further players in those positions out on loan and sold our first choice keeper without an adequate replacement when we were under absolutely no pressure to do so.

Given we are now in the situation where relegation is a distinct possibility, you would think Tony would self reflect and make some big changes. He should be questioning himself to look for better answers. Why are we struggling going forward? Why do we collapse mentally in games? Who needs to be dropped? Instead it feels like he is disconnected. Nothing significantly changes in his approach. In fact the only thing that seems to be happening is that he is becoming more entrenched in his system and refuses to consider the possibility he might need to change things. Why does Bennett play every game? Why does he continue to belittle younger players whilst playing favourites with older players? Why did he priorities a striker so much more than any other position? I doubt he will ever change. Too stubborn to consider other approaches. And for that reason alone, he has a ceiling to where he can take us. Unfortunately that ceiling is our current position. He won't ever be the manager to take us to promotion or a playoff push. He will keep us in bottom half championship football for the rest of his stint here. However, as others have rightly pointed out, he is under no pressure, no pressure to change, no pressure to get us to the playoffs. Venkys are absent, and seemingly like him. It would take a major catastrophe for him to be sacked, perhaps a surprise relegation. So here we are, stuck in time, waiting for relegation to come with no way out. The club exists in this zombie like phase, lumbering around but with no purpose and until Venkys leave that is the way it will stay. Venkys Out

Feel we are heading back into that horrible zone where a win can feel like a slightly bad thing and extending the inevitable He is circling the drain, he could end up circling it for another year or so stopping us from progressing I could be wrong but I’d be very surprised if he pushes us on now

Why are they the most important?! On what basis? Davenport is a young highly rated player who has suffered badly from injuries but has previous experience of Championship football. You speak as if its a senior player like Smallwood blocking White's path when he plays for the U23s, when in fact Davenport is actually 2 years younger. Surely working with Pep is only a good thing? Again, why are you using Harry Chapmans senior experience against him? He is 21, Butterworth and Rankin-Costello are 20 but Chapmans exposure to mens football and proving in glimpses that he can impact games albeit at League 1 level surely is advantageous? I dont understand your attitude or mindset towards very young players who have what I would perceive to be an advantage in terms of senior football experience, which is what matters, and expert coaching. What would you do with them?

Its a rot that started at Preston away last Novmber and has been ongoing for 11 months. We are almost on relegation form over the past 30 odd games despite the fact we won four on the bounce at the end of last year. Managers dont get a clean slate every summer. There are loads of managers out there that would come. Not sacking him because we "dont know who we would get" was used by people justifying Coyle stopping longer than he should, and that ultimately relegated us.

Fair point (to a point). We won't agree on keepers other than we both agree that we've currently got a bad 'un. I'd have loved the opportunity to see Raya play behind a Moran/Hendry type pairing and I'm sure your thoughts on him would then differ. We'll all be up in arms when Raya goes to Barca for big money!

Who needs Zidane when you have Sherwood.