Championship - 22-23

[Upside Down]

Our owners have never refused to sign a cheque. 

Apparently. 

 

[Hasta]

3 hours ago, Gav said:

They've spent North of £30m since 2020,  Bournemouth, Leeds and Brentford have spent big too.

The original point, money talks in this league, you bucket loads to get promoted. 

 

Forest Net Spend last season = £5.5m

Forest Net Spend 20/21 = -£0.5m

Forest Net Spend 19/20 = -£8.78m

So they've actually gained £3.78million on net transfer dealing over the last 3 years.

 

Incidentally, Forest haven't bought a play in the last 3 years until they achieved promotion who cost as much as Gallagher.

[J*B]

48 minutes ago, Hasta said:

Forest Net Spend last season = £5.5m

Forest Net Spend 20/21 = -£0.5m

Forest Net Spend 19/20 = -£8.78m

So they've actually gained £3.78million on net transfer dealing over the last 3 years.

 

Incidentally, Forest haven't bought a play in the last 3 years until they achieved promotion who cost as much as Gallagher.

But Tony says he wasn’t given any money!

[Mercer]

6 hours ago, Butty said:

I think if Cooper leaves Forest Dyche could end up taking over there, he lives in the area and started his football career off at Forest under Cloughy. He could go in there and keep them up I think. 

Rated Cooper until now.  Seems to have completely lost the plot.  How on earth you can make so many signings (20+)when promoted and expect to both maintain a harmony with those who got you up and form a cohesive unit so quickly to compete in the PL is beyond me.  They look a rabble and would be surprised if Cooper survives the week.  Dyche would be a super appointment for them.

[Mercer]

4 hours ago, Gav said:

They've spent North of £30m since 2020,  Bournemouth, Leeds and Brentford have spent big too.

The original point, money talks in this league, you bucket loads to get promoted. 

 

I'll let you do the figures Gav but would not surprise me if Brentford's NET spend is much different to Rovers - they are expert at buying, selling then buying again.

Edit - also, just seen Hasta's post on Forest, says it all.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Mercer

[roversfan99]

Dyche is the obvious appointment for either Forest if they sack Cooper or Bournemouth to give them the best chance of staying up. Strangely, warped perception means that he will be too unfashionable to even be considered and both sides will likely be relegated.

[roversfan99]

Dyche is the obvious appointment for either Forest if they sack Cooper or Bournemouth to give them the best chance of staying up. Strangely, warped perception means that he will be too unfashionable to even be considered and both sides will likely be relegated.

[chaddyrovers]

16 hours ago, Atko's Engine said:

I was being a bit tongue in cheek there really Chaddy, I just wonder if there's a bit of Mowbray that perhaps wishes he'd waited another month before taking a new job!

I'm sure he'll stay at Sunderland. 

I can't see why Rob Edwards should be high on their wishlist, not what they need. Corberan I could see happening & being a good fit, but then I thought that about Wilder.

Big appointment this for Boro, got to get it right or they'll be in bug financial doo day I think.

From what i have read on different social media pages, they appears to be problem behind the scenes all summer in terms of recruitment, etc. 

From What I read on Boro fan site at the weekend they were saying that they wanted head coach not a manager. Exactly why Dyche wasn't going there in month of Sundays in my opinion. 

16 hours ago, Mercer said:

I really struggle to understand you at times Chaddy.  Can I suggest before you fire out responses, you firstly read slowly and carefully what others post.

When I first raised this on the Cardiff thread, I posted:

"Understand Dyche is next in line for M'boro job IF, and it's quite a big IF given location, he wants it.  Stuck a few quid on Dyche at 12/1 (odds falling pretty quickly)".

What can be clearer than that.

You twisting what people say just causes frustration with posters.

If I knew Dyche didn't want the job, do you honestly think I would have backed him?

The bottom line is simply this: seemingly, the job is, or was, Dyche's IF HE WANTS IT, WANTED IT.  

This is not from titbits in the Middlesbrough Sun or whatever rag they have up there.  It is from a colleague of mine who has very good connections with MFC whose observations/thoughts shared with me on Friday night proved spot on.

Firstly, no one fire out response actually. I read alot about the problems at Boro over the weekend including reading a fan site of Boro fans. Then I already read twitter posts from very reliable journalist with an excellent track down who suggested the 3 names in the running. 

Dyche wasn't going there regardless of what your colleague said. That was obvious to most people . 

The local papers are the Northern Echo and Teesside Gazette  

[chaddyrovers]

6 hours ago, Butty said:

I think if Cooper leaves Forest Dyche could end up taking over there, he lives in the area and started his football career off at Forest under Cloughy. He could go in there and keep them up I think. 

Can't see it myself. Given how the Football management structure which their CEO Dane Murphy has a major say

4 hours ago, Gav said:

They've spent North of £30m since 2020,  Bournemouth, Leeds and Brentford have spent big too.

The original point, money talks in this league, you bucket loads to get promoted. 

 

@Hasta figures are spot here Gav. 

Here are the transfers for each of the season Hasta mentioned 

Nottingham Forest - Transfers 21/22 | Transfermarkt

Nottingham Forest - Transfers 20/21 | Transfermarkt

Nottingham Forest - Transfers 19/20 | Transfermarkt

Wouldn't you say that have been very well manage financially by only spending what the recieved in transfers in 2 out of the 3-season mention? 

 

1 minute ago, Mercer said:

Rated Cooper until now.  Seems to have completely lost the plot.  How on earth you can make so many signings (20+)when promoted and expect to both maintain a harmony with those who got you up and form a cohesive unit so quickly to compete in the PL is beyond me.  They look a rabble and would be surprised if Cooper survives the week.  Dyche would be a super appointment for them.

I would say Dyche is totally the wrong appointment for that squad. They have also been linked Rafa Benitez who I think would be better. Another suggestion Who I think would be good fit for them is Nuno Espirito Santo

[chaddyrovers]

21 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Dyche is the obvious appointment for either Forest if they sack Cooper or Bournemouth to give them the best chance of staying up. Strangely, warped perception means that he will be too unfashionable to even be considered and both sides will likely be relegated.

I don't see why he is obvious appointment for either club. Why would change Gary O'Niell being caretaker manager when he is picking up good results is baffling. Plus, with them in takeover talks can't see them appointing a permanent appointment until that's dealt with

[K-Hod]

41 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Can't see it myself. Given how the Football management structure which their CEO Dane Murphy has a major say

@Hasta figures are spot here Gav. 

Here are the transfers for each of the season Hasta mentioned 

Nottingham Forest - Transfers 21/22 | Transfermarkt

Nottingham Forest - Transfers 20/21 | Transfermarkt

Nottingham Forest - Transfers 19/20 | Transfermarkt

Wouldn't you say that have been very well manage financially by only spending what the recieved in transfers in 2 out of the 3-season mention? 

 

I would say Dyche is totally the wrong appointment for that squad. They have also been linked Rafa Benitez who I think would be better. Another suggestion Who I think would be good fit for them is Nuno Espirito Santo

Whilst I do think it would be madness to sack Cooper yet- Dyche would absolutely be the right appointment.

Lots of PL experience and also Championship experience, if they were to ultimately go down.

The other two haven’t really been anywhere near a relegation battle….

[Gav]

4 hours ago, Hasta said:

Forest Net Spend last season = £5.5m

Forest Net Spend 20/21 = -£0.5m

Forest Net Spend 19/20 = -£8.78m

So they've actually gained £3.78million on net transfer dealing over the last 3 years.

 

Incidentally, Forest haven't bought a play in the last 3 years until they achieved promotion who cost as much as Gallagher.

Nobody mentioned Net spend?

I said they'd spent North of £30m since 2020 - They bought Harry Arta for £6m, Samba for £2m, Jenkinson and Costa for £4m, Soh for £5m, Mckenna for £3m, Sturridge for £3m and I could go on. 

We've spent £1.99 in the same time period, you need money to get out of this league, you heard it here first. 

Edited October 4, 2022 by Gav

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, K-Hod said:

Whilst I do think it would be madness to sack Cooper yet- Dyche would absolutely be the right appointment.

Lots of PL experience and also Championship experience, if they were to ultimately go down.

The other two haven’t really been anywhere near a relegation battle….

I have also said it was utter and complete madness to sack Cooper given that without him they wouldn't be the PL. I feel they should show some loyal to him and not dump him after 7 PL games. 

On Dyche, I don't think him, or his style would suit that squad. People will disagree so better just agree to disagree now

31 minutes ago, Gav said:

Nobody mentioned Net spend, you've made that up.

I said they'd spent North of £30m since 2020 - They bought Harry Arta for £6m, Samba for £2m, Jenkinson and Costa for £4m, Soh for £5m, Mckenna for £3m, Sturridge for £3m and I could go on. 

We've spent £1.99 in the same time period, you need money to get out of this league, you heard it here first. 

Gav, still defending Mowbray again. Mowbray spent 10 million during that time so hardly £1.99 is it. Plus, loan signings and the fact he had over 30-man squad in the season of 20-21 and he couldn't manage that squad to even finish top half. 

Forest has spent just 30 million pounds over those seasons, but they spend what they generate. 

[Gav]

17 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

Gav, still defending Mowbray again. Mowbray spent 10 million during that time so hardly £1.99 is it. Plus, loan signings and the fact he had over 30-man squad in the season of 20-21 and he couldn't manage that squad to even finish top half. 

Forest has spent just 30 million pounds over those seasons, but they spend what they generate. 

Who mentioned Mowbray?

I simply pointed out you need money to get out of this league.

[JacknOry]

39 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I have also said it was utter and complete madness to sack Cooper given that without him they wouldn't be the PL. I feel they should show some loyal to him and not dump him after 7 PL games. 

On Dyche, I don't think him, or his style would suit that squad. People will disagree so better just agree to disagree now

Gav, still defending Mowbray again. Mowbray spent 10 million during that time so hardly £1.99 is it. Plus, loan signings and the fact he had over 30-man squad in the season of 20-21 and he couldn't manage that squad to even finish top half. 

Forest has spent just 30 million pounds over those seasons, but they spend what they generate. 

You defended Mowbray his entire time here until it was clear he was going. If still here, you would continue to defend him. 

[chaddyrovers]

30 minutes ago, Gav said:

Who mentioned Mowbray?

I simply pointed out you need money to get out of this league.

and former manager had money to spend and didn't used it properly whilst not being to sell players to balance the books. Also he was unable to maintain our position in the top 6 last season due to unwillingness and Stubbornness to adapt his tactics. Anyway he has gone now

[chaddyrovers]

 

 

[longsiders1882]

4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Can't see it myself. Given how the Football management structure which their CEO Dane Murphy has a major say

I would say Dyche is totally the wrong appointment for that squad. They have also been linked Rafa Benitez who I think would be better. Another suggestion Who I think would be good fit for them is Nuno Espirito Santo

You always seem to think you know a lot about Dyche. He’s more than happy to work with a DOF

As for you ‘Benitez would be better’ - based on what? His failure at Newcastle despite spending more on one player than Dyche did in 5 seasons? Now there is still a question as to whether Dyche can do it again. My opinion is yes and that if given a chance at Forest/Bournemouth he will do well but only time will tell. For now he’s happy taking around 325k a month home from his Burnley salary.

[Mercer]

4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

From what i have read on different social media pages, they appears to be problem behind the scenes all summer in terms of recruitment, etc. 

From What I read on Boro fan site at the weekend they were saying that they wanted head coach not a manager. Exactly why Dyche wasn't going there in month of Sundays in my opinion. 

Firstly, no one fire out response actually. I read alot about the problems at Boro over the weekend including reading a fan site of Boro fans. Then I already read twitter posts from very reliable journalist with an excellent track down who suggested the 3 names in the running. 

Dyche wasn't going there regardless of what your colleague said. That was obvious to most people . 

The local papers are the Northern Echo and Teesside Gazette  

The penny still hasn't dropped Chaddy has it?

Rovers WANTED Sepp van den Berg but he went elsewhere.

My understanding is Gibson WANTED Dyche and he was top of his wanted list but seemingly he wont be going there and will be going elsewhere - when I first posted on this I strongly caveated it would be a big IF as the geography didn't work for Dyche.

With the greatest respect to you and 'most people' you refer to, I am very confident Dyche was the number one target given where this information came from.

As we know from bitter experience with Rovers' managerial serach, you might have targets but you fail to land them.

It's very simple and if you can't understand that then I am sorry.

 

[chaddyrovers]

12 minutes ago, Mercer said:

The penny still hasn't dropped Chaddy has it?

Rovers WANTED Sepp van den Berg but he went elsewhere.

My understanding is Gibson WANTED Dyche and he was top of his wanted list but seemingly he wont be going there and will be going elsewhere - when I first posted on this I strongly caveated it would be a big IF as the geography didn't work for Dyche.

With the greatest respect to you and 'most people' you refer to, I am very confident Dyche was the number one target given where this information came from.

As we know from bitter experience with Rovers' managerial serach, you might have targets but you fail to land them.

It's very simple and if you can't understand that then I am sorry.

 

I've moved on Mercer tbh now.

I'm happy that Taylor gone to Rotherham as I have money on that. 

 

29 minutes ago, longsiders1882 said:

You always seem to think you know a lot about Dyche. He’s more than happy to work with a DOF

As for you ‘Benitez would be better’ - based on what? His failure at Newcastle despite spending more on one player than Dyche did in 5 seasons? Now there is still a question as to whether Dyche can do it again. My opinion is yes and that if given a chance at Forest/Bournemouth he will do well but only time will tell. For now he’s happy taking around 325k a month home from his Burnley salary.

Is Dyche happy to not a major say in transfers and just be head coach.

I think WBA would be better fit him with the squad there. 

[longsiders1882]

17 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I've moved on Mercer tbh now.

I'm happy that Taylor gone to Rotherham as I have money on that. 

 

Is Dyche happy to not a major say in transfers and just be head coach.

I think WBA would be better fit him with the squad there. 

I’m sure he will expect a say in transfers, to be one voice. As for WBA, can they afford him - or how much is he willing to walk away from? When he finally does take a job it will be interesting to see how he gets on.

[Blue blood]

4 hours ago, Gav said:

Nobody mentioned Net spend?

I said they'd spent North of £30m since 2020 - They bought Harry Arta for £6m, Samba for £2m, Jenkinson and Costa for £4m, Soh for £5m, Mckenna for £3m, Sturridge for £3m and I could go on. 

We've spent £1.99 in the same time period, you need money to get out of this league, you heard it here first. 

Well Gav this is daft - of course net spend matters. As in that shows it's a well run club. It shows that they have generated income to invest in players. It shows that clubs can generate the money needed to get promoted without needing parachute payments (which I think was the initial main point?)

I will grant you there is an element of speculate to accumulate being shown, but then most clubs can do that. 

And in fact in some of the cases they didn't need that much money to speculate/ to start off getting promoted whatsoever. Burnley first time round springs to mind, Huddersfield, Norwich first time round, Brentford - who generated all their own cash. All good examples of loads of money not absolutely being needed to build to success. 

I'd also say playoffs isn't totally irrelevant as if you can get in them you have a chance of promotion. They are a bit of a lottery. It's not the most compelling argument I grant you but it does mean there is a chance, and on rare occasions the small spending club can get promoted (Bournmouth first time? Blackpool).

Anyhow IF Rovers had invested their money better than maybe we'd have the money to speculate. How much was lost from the trio who walked for nothing this summer? How much was lost at not selling Armstrong and Bereton at the right time? (Albeit the former fetched a decent price of which some should have been invested, to invest absolutely nothing was poor.) How much lost in not selling Bereton. Dare I mention the £5 mil spunked on Gally  We haven't protected or sold assets well so we haven't generated income the way other clubs have done so. Had we managed this a bit better than maybe we would be able to generate better fees and buy better players and trade up. 

Plus we have the advantage of an excellent academy. And the manager had more time than any predecessor. So they aren't totally hard done to even under the shambles of Venkys. 

[Upside Down]

When it comes to generating income Rovers seem to do everything in their power to do the opposite. 

[Hasta]

19 hours ago, Gav said:

Who mentioned Mowbray?

I simply pointed out you need money to get out of this league.

No. You said without parachute payments ( "premier league money) you couldn't succeeed in this league. If you trade properly you can.

If you put a Rovers hat on, would we have been allowed to invest as much of that money from sales in as Forest have? Almost definitely not.

 

 

[Gav]

1 hour ago, Hasta said:

No. You said without parachute payments ( "premier league money) you couldn't succeeed in this league. If you trade properly you can.

If you put a Rovers hat on, would we have been allowed to invest as much of that money from sales in as Forest have? Almost definitely not.

Here's the original quote, with the bit you omitted: 

Its never been clearer that money talks in this league, very rarely do clubs without Premiership money, parachute payments prosper, despite the best efforts of all involved.

You need money to get out of this league, as the league table for past 5yrs shows, very few break the mould (Sheff Utd).

I think one point we can both agree on, after that last night, or trading needs to improve significantly, its clearly not enough to turn £2m players into £20m with addons at today Blackburn Rovers. 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Gav