v Wigan Athletic (h) - 6/2/23

[tomphil]

I wouldn't slam the door on Vale he's come through the academy and won't cost much in wages and has been a handy squad man.  Problem is when you end up relying on players like this for goals in a system that creates little to nothing, he might be good foil for a decent striker in a different system.

Yet another imo he just isn't really suited to how we play at the moment and is best used as a sub to come on and close games out.

[Ossydave]

3 minutes ago, tomphil said:

I wouldn't slam the door on Vale he's come through the academy and won't cost much in wages and has been a handy squad man.  Problem is when you end up relying on players like this for goals in a system that creates little to nothing, he might be good foil for a decent striker in a different system.

Yet another imo he just isn't really suited to how we play at the moment and is best used as a sub to come on and close games out.

So who IS suited to playing striker in a team who create fuck all?

 

[jim mk2]

28 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Jack Vale will come good, create some chances for him and see. If he misses those chances then fair enough, but you can't write a player off who so many professionals are impressed with.

People keep talking about his time with Halifax which winds me up, the manager he had there absolutely adores him and he played him as a right-sided midfielder. Not everything is so black and white in terms of the goals return with that loan.  

@wilsdenrover I like Vale's movement and I believe him to be a great finisher. I've seen him for years now across his 21's (23's)/First Team and Loan spells. He's definitely a better natural finisher than some of the other 9's we've got.

You’re watching a different player to most people. I see a player who lacks the physical presence, skill, pace or tactical nous to play in the championship. He doesn’t score goals, he doesn’t work very hard and he’s 22 - if he hasn’t made it by now he is very unlikely to

[roversfan99]

36 minutes ago, JoeH said:

A manager who knows football better than anyone on this board, who played in the position we are discussing, is absolutely relevant.

Owen Coyle made over 600 appearances as a professional striker. Steve Kean played at a higher level than anyone on here!

32 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Jack Vale will come good, create some chances for him and see. If he misses those chances then fair enough, but you can't write a player off who so many professionals are impressed with.

People keep talking about his time with Halifax which winds me up, the manager he had there absolutely adores him and he played him as a right-sided midfielder. Not everything is so black and white in terms of the goals return with that loan.  

@wilsdenrover I like Vale's movement and I believe him to be a great finisher. I've seen him for years now across his 21's (23's)/First Team and Loan spells. He's definitely a better natural finisher than some of the other 9's we've got.

The brunt of all of your arguments seems to be attempting to use "professionals" judgements rather than giving your own opinions against mine and others.

Are "so many professionals" impressed with Vale? And even taking that as a given, think of all of the professionals that have granted poor players so many games. Jason Lowe played over 200 games in the top 2 divisions before he was seemingly found out.

If his movement is good, why does he never find himself in goal scoring positions? I think you also place too much stock in scoring against kids, there are a million and one historical stand outs at that level that fizzle away, it means little.

Being a better finisher than some of our other 9's is hardly a benchmark, our only other one is Gallagher! And even amidst his faults, I know who I would prefer 1 on 1.

22 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

How many chances has Vale had to score this season in the league? 

Dack and BBD are more experience players so I would say unfair comparison 

I mentioned earlier that a big reason that Jack Vale has barely had a chance in the league is because of Jack Vale. He is never in good positions. I don't get how you and Joe seem to be so focused on Vale's apparently good movement. He never really gets into good positions, especially in the box.

[SuperBrfc]

He's persisting with Vale for two reasons, in my view:

1) There's little other choice

2) He's trying to increase Vale's value by giving him some playing time.

It isn't because JDT was a top striker, therefore he must see something in Vale, and us plebs know nothing. It is all about the project and trying to add player value.

[chaddyrovers]

1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

I mentioned earlier that a big reason that Jack Vale has barely had a chance in the league is because of Jack Vale. He is never in good positions. I don't get how you and Joe seem to be so focused on Vale's apparently good movement. He never really gets into good positions, especially in the box.

So you can't answer how many chances Vale has actually had. 

Based on watching him over a number of years from under 18's to now. I rate him and I think he will be good player for him. His movement at Bristol City created the space for Morton to run into and pulled their defender out from that space. 

 

[Hasta]

4 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

So you can't answer how many chances Vale has actually had. 

Based on watching him over a number of years from under 18's to now. I rate him and I think he will be good player for him. His movement at Bristol City created the space for Morton to run into and pulled their defender out from that space. 

 

Why do all the chances fall to Dack and not Vale?

If it’s just about finishing ability we might as well get Lee Trundle out of retirement.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Hasta

[Mattyblue]

‘His move into space at Bristol City’ is the new ‘Hirst just needs a run of games’ by the looks of it…

Edited February 5, 2023 by Mattyblue

[roversfan99]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

So you can't answer how many chances Vale has actually had. 

Based on watching him over a number of years from under 18's to now. I rate him and I think he will be good player for him. His movement at Bristol City created the space for Morton to run into and pulled their defender out from that space. 

 

Because my point is that it is partly his fault that he seldom has a chance of scoring a goal!

Your two highlights of Vale this season in the league that you have repeated is him strolling into the channel against Bristol City and a shot he had saved at Blackpool. 

[roversfan99]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

‘His movement at Bristol City’ is the new ‘Hirst just needs a run of games’ by the looks of it…

He would have been struggling had @JoeH not mentioned that!

[Hasta]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

He would have been struggling had @JoeH not mentioned that!

And let’s be honest it’s absolute basic play.

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, Hasta said:

And let’s be honest it’s absolute basic play.

If that's something you are clinging on to, it suggests that there hasn't been much in the first place to cling onto!

You compare him to a youngster in Adam Wharton with a similar amount of game time if not less, you can point to a man of the match performance at Blackpool, a goal v Birmingham, an excellent performance away at Boro and a superb assist at Hull for starters.

[chaddyrovers]

9 minutes ago, Hasta said:

Why do all the chances fall to Dack and not Vale?

If it’s just about finishing ability we might as well get Lee Trundle out of retirement.

Dack is an experience player so the comparison is unfair one for me. Vale is at the start of his playing career

People can keep going on Vale but I won't be changing my opinion on Vale

[Hasta]

8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Dack is an experience player so the comparison is unfair one for me. Vale is at the start of his playing career

People can keep going on Vale but I won't be changing my opinion on Vale

I’m not asking you to change your opinion. I’m just stating mine. And yes Dack is a more experienced player. But the fact is if Vale was better with his movement and anticipation he would get those chances that he isn’t getting.

Its partly his fault he isn’t getting chances, because he isn’t good enough at the moment.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Hasta

[tomphil]

32 minutes ago, Ossydave said:

So who IS suited to playing striker in a team who create fuck all?

 

A creative striker with a one chance one goal ratio !

[den]

25 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Dack is an experience player so the comparison is unfair one for me. Vale is at the start of his playing career

People can keep going on Vale but I won't be changing my opinion on Vale

He isn’t at the start of his career. He’s 22 next month. 

[Butty]

32 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Dack is an experience player so the comparison is unfair one for me. Vale is at the start of his playing career

People can keep going on Vale but I won't be changing my opinion on Vale

Vale wouldn’t score goals in the conference, simple as that. 

[booth]

33 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Dack is an experience player so the comparison is unfair one for me. Vale is at the start of his playing career

People can keep going on Vale but I won't be changing my opinion on Vale

You changed it about Hirst once the club decided he wasn't good enough.

When the club moves Vale on you'll change it then as well.

For a club that's just publicly admitted to a disasterous error, you have a lot of faith in them.

The truth is that the club is winging it with what they've got. There's no plan to using Vale, it's nothing to do with ability, we don't have much in the way of options. He'll be on his way when the club luck out with someone better.

[Guest]

and.... back on topic, over 2400 extra pies needed for the Darwen End upper concourse, as hungry but diminutive hordes pile over from the Pier.

Am expecting a gate of around 13,200 on paper, with around 2450 actually in the ground. Can't make it myself, as am working till late, but with the wily Shaun Maloney now at the helm, fresh from his triumph as the leading Kershaws Cockle and Prawn hawker North West 2022, I am sure he will have his dirty, cynical, lumpen footballing equivalents of Nigel Farage ready for the fray.

Whether mr Nice Guy will transmit his clear frustration with the string cutting puppeteers infesting the management suite to the playing staff at Ewood, such that there is a resounding battle cry of 'To the Pies' remains to be seen.

Not holding my breath. 

Rovers 1 (ball trickles over the line from the kick off, whilst everyone is looking at the 10,000 tennis balls and 13500 rubber chickens somehow smuggled into the ground and now unceremoniously deposited on Kaminski's bum bag) - Pie Eaters 0

 

COY JDT BLUES!

[Exiled_Rover]

1 hour ago, Gav said:

If a player isn’t good enough he wouldn’t get in the team week in week out. He’d play Brereton in Gallagher position, change formations, plenty of options to plug that gap.

Managers keep picking him, 138 appearances, ask yourself why.

 

Mainly because he's an exceptional athlete and he works hard... and the other options are very poor.

[goozburger]

JDT and the playing squad might be galvanised after the transfer window debacle. The focus has been away from them during the last week or so, and now that we don't have a play-off spot to lose and the monkey off our backs of being in a good position but performing badly, now is as good a time as any to let the shackles off against a poor side and see if we can dominate a game for a change and get the three points.

[jim mk2]

From my playing days the arrival of new players always had a positive effect. The new players were out to impress and the existing players wanted to show they were better than the new boys. I can't see any way that the Rovers players will be galvanised by this transfer window - in fact it shows if the club can't be bothered to be ambitious and try to be better why should they? 

[Gav]

24 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Mainly because he's an exceptional athlete and he works hard... and the other options are very poor.

We’ve had Diaz and Armstrong on the books and Gally still played.

It’s all about opinions Exiled and respect yours and agree he needs to score more goals. He’s a mid table championship player, like we are a mid table championship side.

[Hasta]

8 minutes ago, Gav said:.

It’s all about opinions Exiled and respect yours and agree he needs to score more goals. He’s a mid table championship player, like we are a mid table championship side.

If he’s mid table championship Danny Graham must have been champions league.

[roversfan99]

It is a must win tomorrow for me to end a poor couple of months and try and regain some form. Wigan are shocking, we are at home v bottom of the league. If things start badly on the back of recent performances and off the field woes, the crowd could easily become disgruntled. It's on the players and the manager to get a good response tomorrow.