Venky’s, HMRC…The Plot Thickens ?

[1864roverite]

Reading this from my hotel in Singapore !

GMs comments seem to be constantly ignored, there has not been any winding up order issued it’s as simple as 1-2-3.

To date, despite what is uttered or written in here, no one has the gumption to properly organise a March of disdain/remove Waggot or venkys in fact some suggestions are imbecilic such as pitch invasions!

Those who think admin is the way forward think again! It isn’t an option.

The suggestion Rovers will have buyers is again living in cuckoo land. Venkys are ripe for a picking at this time and I believe IF there was a credible potential buyer out there there would be bids, reality is there is not!

Rovers are not under suspicion nor is the venky link to the club part of it, their issue are tax related issues to personal property purchases ie the purchase of a property and land through their business books NOT Rovers.

Those hoping for a court turnaround, a precedent is in place meaning unless the court sees a major issue nothing will change!

Looking forward to reading about organisational and positives in taking the protest forwards.

[booth]

3 hours ago, Mike Graham said:

 

Secondly the owners, whether fans like it or not, took the applications to the High Court at no doubt great expense.  They secured payments to Rovers and the HMRC, VAT, staff etc have all been paid.  Whether fans like it or not credit should be given to the owners for this.

 

Bless their hearts.

3 hours ago, Mike Graham said:

The role of the Trust is to try and engage as a critical friend with the owners and their representatives whether they be the Venky’s, the Walker family or the Nolan sisters.  We will continue to try our very best to influence on behalf of our members.

Can anyone contact the Nolan sisters to see if there's a genuine interest?

[glen9mullan]

1 hour ago, Miller11 said:

To provide a different perspective from the Trust Board…

I don’t agree the owners deserve any credit for doing the bare minimum, and the 13 year mess we are in is entirely of their making.

I came back on to the Trust board in 2020 after being involved during its inception. I’d say that, broadly, the Trust has had a number of different phases, driven by the desires of the fan base and the actions of the owners.

Stage 1 - actively perusing ownership stake

Stage 2 - campaigning against the owners

Stage 3 - focusing on fan led review

Stage 4 - attempting to work with the club to re-engage fans 

At the back end of last season stage 4 seemed the logical step. Thoughts on the owners ranged from praise to apathy. Personally I felt in limbo with them so why not try and make the best of it, genuinely felt we could make some positive contributions. While I think we have succeeded in some ways it is clear that major issues remain that undo a lot of the good things we’ve tried to achieve. Stage 4 was always going to have to be a long term process, but it’s been hampered from almost day one by owner driven issues.

As little as a month ago things were far less bleak than they are now, and we have since hurtled into a period of crisis. It’s been a few years but was inevitable under Venky’s. We now need to regroup and consider our approach.

Of course this needs to be driven by the members. We receive regular communications from them via email, messages, in person. We canvas opinions broadly at AGM’s, and I absolutely agree with the points Glen and Josh have made here. Our minutes need to be on the website from our MOU meetings, I’m not sure why they aren’t and will get them on. And Josh, you should be receiving regular comms, particularly after our website and database updates - I’ll chase this.

I can’t give you an accurate percentage without polling, but we have a lot of members who totally disagree with my earlier expressed thoughts on the owners. And broadly speaking those at our last AGM thought there were no issues with our ticket prices. So it’s not as easy as just calling for heads.

What we do need to do is look at the way forward now. Effectively what does phase 5 look like. Any members who want to have an input here, get in touch.

Thanks Duncan , as usual a great professional response,  and update .

I get the emails, but can't see any minutes of meetings on any of them, is there emails I'm not getting?

On another note, I have asked this question previously privately, but will ask publicly as it does bug me,

On the Trust history page, the trust has continued to not put my down as a previous board member, despite being heavily involved before the amalgamation and also former secretary, the only one the Trust does not put on!!!

I appreciate we have newer board members, who at times appear to post in a manner that I'm against an organisation which I've promoted throughout, signed up and pledged. 

I'm allowed to ask question of the trust as a supporter without feeling I should not.

The reason I stood down from the Trust was when I acquired the smoking gun regarding SEM's contract with the club , the trust failed to release this into the public domain and felt they did not want to put their head above the parapet (Granted 90% of the current board was not in situ).

I therefore stood down, and released it myself to ensure the pack of cards came tumbling down around SEM etc,

Any way would of asked this in person, but have done a number of times

Edited January 15 by glen9mullan

[wilsdenrover]

9 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

To be perfectly honest in the last 3 and a half years there hasn’t been anything confidential of the slightest bit of interest. 

To answer your question though, there definitely would be instances in theory. Long term health of the club is far more important than anything else.

Thanks.

Is that your personal view or the trust’s ‘official’ view?

[Crimpshrine]

9 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

Those hoping for a court turnaround, a precedent is in place meaning unless the court sees a major issue nothing will change!

 

There is always the chance that the financial investigations have uncovered more evidence since the last hearing. There were objections to the ruling last time, I'm sure there will be this time also.

[lraC]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

What do you mean if Venkys "get found guilty"?

Of what?

I am surprised that you have not read it, but Venky's stand accused of making illegal payments for 2010 to date.

Link below.

https://www.business-standard.com/india-news/ed-seizes-over-rs-65-cr-of-venkateshwara-hatcheries-in-fema-probe-123090400325_1.html

[arbitro]

I have to say I'm a bit perturbed reading some posts as it seems to me that we should all be on the same page here but my interpretation is that we aren't. Personality clashes, egos of whatever else should be put to one side and all the various supporter groups should come together for the greater good. Right now every Rovers fan near or far should be worried about our future existence and now is the time to put on a united front.

[oldjamfan1]

13 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

Thanks.

Is that your personal view or the trust’s ‘official’ view?

Individual Trust Board members like Duncan and myself can only ever really give their individual take on things, unless it is via an official Trust communication (similar to what Josh described earlier today) but presumably if ever we got whiff of anything illegal or the club tried to suppress something that very clearly ought to be in the public domain then I guess we would whistleblow. 

[oldjamfan1]

Just now, arbitro said:

I have to say I'm a bit perturbed reading some posts as it seems to me that we should all be on the same page here but my interpretation is that we aren't. Personality clashes, egos of whatever else should be put to one side and all the various supporter groups should come together for the greater good. Right now every Rovers fan near or far should be worried about our future existence and now is the time to put on a united front.

'Twas ever thus Tony, sadly.

[1864roverite]

8 minutes ago, Crimpshrine said:

There is always the chance that the financial investigations have uncovered more evidence since the last hearing. There were objections to the ruling last time, I'm sure there will be this time also.

Of course there is but there hasn’t! In fact some original allegations have been removed, two amended with a request to discharge a further allegation. On that basis the court will continue to approve and it’s a simple paper exercise.

venkys will provide a scapegoat as well as having political support so fat balaji won’t see the inside of a cell. Indian authorities still deal in brown envelopes!

the reporter who uncovered the saga hasn’t made anymore such allegations since! Maybe he has received such a brown envelope since🤫🤫🤫

[rigger]

22 minutes ago, booth said:

Bless their hearts.

Can anyone contact the Nolan sisters to see if there's a genuine interest?

They replyed : A nice idea but, I'm in the mood for dancing.

[Mattyblue]

1864 missing the point by a country mile as always.

Yes we know an actual winding up order wasn’t placed on Blackburn Rovers. But we also know it was threatened and we do know the owners now have to go to an Indian court every three months in order to fund basic obligations - ergo this threat could be a regular occurrence due to serious cash flow issues.

Is this normal? Is this what we want for our football club?

Edited January 15 by Mattyblue

[Miller11]

20 minutes ago, glen9mullan said:

Thanks Duncan , as usual a great professional response,  and update .

I get the emails, but can't see any minutes of meetings on any of them, is there emails I'm not getting?

On another note, I have asked this question previously privately, but will ask publicly as it does bug me,

On the Trust history page, the trust has continued to not put my down as a previous board member, despite being heavily involved before the amalgamation and also former secretary, the only one the Trust does not put on!!!

I appreciate we have newer board members, who at times appear to post in a manner that I'm against an organisation which I've promoted throughout, signed up and pledged. 

I'm allowed to ask question of the trust as a supporter without feeling I should not.

The reason I stood down from the Trust was when I acquired the smoking gun regarding SEM's contract with the club , the trust failed to release this into the public domain and felt they did not want to put their head above the parapet (Granted 90% of the current board was not in situ).

I therefore stood down, and released it myself to ensure the pack of cards came tumbling down around SEM etc,

Any way would of asked this in person, but have done a number of times

No problem mate.

The emails we send are usually in the form of a newsletter, as well as ad hoc one off news items. We generally don’t send the minutes via email, but they are available on the website. With the updates they aren’t all on there at present so we may have to look at adding an archive for the older ones.

https://www.roverstrust.com/news-resources/minutes
 

The history page is not on the new website any more. It was very incomplete (including the omission of yourself and others as well as missing key achievements and activities) and it became very difficult to try and bring it up to scratch as there isn’t any continuous board member who has been involved at every step, so the decision was taken to remove that section. Hopefully the site is more user friendly nowadays.

In due course (probably before our next AGM), I will write an article outlining the history properly and mentioning all those who have contributed… it’s quite a list! And find a more appropriate home for it on the site and in future Trust literature.

[arbitro]

9 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

Of course there is but there hasn’t! In fact some original allegations have been removed, two amended with a request to discharge a further allegation. On that basis the court will continue to approve and it’s a simple paper exercise.

venkys will provide a scapegoat as well as having political support so fat balaji won’t see the inside of a cell. Indian authorities still deal in brown envelopes!

the reporter who uncovered the saga hasn’t made anymore such allegations since! Maybe he has received such a brown envelope since🤫🤫🤫

Or given Bhaji's alleged penchant for violence he could just have been beaten up.

[glen9mullan]

3 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

No problem mate.

The emails we send are usually in the form of a newsletter, as well as ad hoc one off news items. We generally don’t send the minutes via email, but they are available on the website. With the updates they aren’t all on there at present so we may have to look at adding an archive for the older ones.

https://www.roverstrust.com/news-resources/minutes
 

The history page is not on the new website any more. It was very incomplete (including the omission of yourself and others as well as missing key achievements and activities) and it became very difficult to try and bring it up to scratch as there isn’t any continuous board member who has been involved at every step, so the decision was taken to remove that section. Hopefully the site is more user friendly nowadays.

In due course (probably before our next AGM), I will write an article outlining the history properly and mentioning all those who have contributed… it’s quite a list! And find a more appropriate home for it on the site and in future Trust literature.

Thanks Duncan,

I do feel minutes is a minimum requirement from any organisation, and of who was present and the questions and answers,

If this is being added this be a big step forwards in communicating the discussions.

[RevidgeBlue]

22 minutes ago, lraC said:

I am surprised that you have not read it, but Venky's stand accused of making illegal payments for 2010 to date.

Link below.

https://www.business-standard.com/india-news/ed-seizes-over-rs-65-cr-of-venkateshwara-hatcheries-in-fema-probe-123090400325_1.html

I'm well aware of all that but I thought it wasn't in dispute that they'd made those illegal payments hence why we're currently under the auspices of an Indian Court.

Therefore I was wondering what J*B was hoping we'd "be found guilty" of when it seems to be a fait accompli.

[phili]

21 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

Of course there is but there hasn’t! In fact some original allegations have been removed, two amended with a request to discharge a further allegation. On that basis the court will continue to approve and it’s a simple paper exercise.

venkys will provide a scapegoat as well as having political support so fat balaji won’t see the inside of a cell. Indian authorities still deal in brown envelopes!

the reporter who uncovered the saga hasn’t made anymore such allegations since! Maybe he has received such a brown envelope since🤫🤫🤫

I am not sure they have any political support at the moment. They seem to have upset Modi and he may very well crack down on them as a warning to others.

[glen9mullan]

Anyway following the latest development in terms of supporter patience monitor,

What is the plan? What happens next in terms of a response?

[Dreams of 1995]

I don't really think there does need to be a plan @glen9mullan

The reality is that there is not an appetite to protest. Nor is there really an area that can be attacked. Missing payments, court cases, negligence and abject failures to live up to responsibility is a trend of the Venky ownership and will continue to be so until they finally leave our town

The Trust really does not have much sway over what goes on at the club, and I'd wager is not really representative of the match going fan. I know far more about the Trust and what goes on at Venkys than my family in Blackburn. They go every game. I go a handful of times a season and mainly to away games

I honestly think that this 'house of cards' will only come tumbling down as a result of their own stupidity. It will not be because of pressure from us. They are immune to it. India is thousands of miles away, and their culture is not one which promotes fawning to those below them. We are a piece in a big jigsaw to them

[Roverthechimp]

From a distance the current supporter discontent is more about recent results and our head coach not “parking the (presumably leased) bus” despite the bloody obvious lack of players capable of doing that and a point blank refusal from his bosses to recruit such players…

For whatever reason - even when he was grossly overachieving - many see JDT as a bigger problem than our bent owners, dumbed down operations and a CEO/leadership that does not want success on the pitch.

Mindblowing 🤯

[J*B]

1 hour ago, 1864roverite said:

Those who think admin is the way forward think again! It isn’t an option.

The suggestion Rovers will have buyers is again living in cuckoo land. Venkys are ripe for a picking at this time and I believe IF there was a credible potential buyer out there there would be bids, reality is there is not!

Can you explain to me very clearly why the following clubs where all bought by what appear to be good owners, yet nobody would be interested in buying Blackburn Rovers - especially if the club was either put up for sale or put into administration and could be bought cheaper:

Birmingham City

Bolton Wanderers

Coventry City 

Hull City

Brighton

Blackpool

Huddersfield

Derby County

Wigan Athletic

Sunderland

Charlton 

Wrexham

I look forward to hearing why we are any different.  

Reminder - before anyone says “nobody has tried to buy us!”

1) Even if they did, it would be under NDA and we wouldn’t know it for sure. 

2) Nobody has made me an offer on my house - the reason for that is there isn’t a for sale sign outside and it’s not registered with an estate agent. 

[jim mk2]

Does the Rovers Trust have a press officer pushing Rovers to the forefront of the MSM?

Looking at the website, the News Section has very little that would be of interest to the media

To take the threatened winding-up for instance, I couldn't see a news story, or some sort of comment piece

Edited January 15 by jim mk2

[Miller11]

1 minute ago, jim mk2 said:

Does the Rovers Trust have a press officer pushing Rovers to the forefront of the MSM?

Looking at the website, the News Section has very little that would be of interest to the media

To take the threatened winding-up for instance, I couldn't see a news story, or some sort of comment piece

No, we don’t. The board is a small number of volunteers who commit varying levels of their free time. Were always on the lookout for more help from individuals with time and appropriate skillsets.

It’s a long time since anything at Rovers was of interest to the main stream media. It’s painfully difficult for the Trust to get anything in the local press or radio Lancashire most of the time.

[jim mk2]

9 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

No, we don’t. The board is a small number of volunteers who commit varying levels of their free time. Were always on the lookout for more help from individuals with time and appropriate skillsets.

It’s a long time since anything at Rovers was of interest to the main stream media. It’s painfully difficult for the Trust to get anything in the local press or radio Lancashire most of the time.

 

I'd have thought it could act as a kind of unofficial mouthpiece for Rovers fans. Trust members are supporters and aware of the mood around Ewood, so in event of a contentious issue (eg, the Cambridge ticket controversy), it could release a statement giving the fans' point of view.

It might provide a comment after one of Tomasson's press conferences, backing (or otherwise) his views on the problems with the squad and the club's difficulties in making signings

There's lots that can be done to get the Trust (and Rovers) more in the media spotlight and yes, I do realise it does depend on people coming forward and putting in the time and effort

[RoversClitheroe]

22 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

No, we don’t. The board is a small number of volunteers who commit varying levels of their free time. Were always on the lookout for more help from individuals with time and appropriate skillsets.

It’s a long time since anything at Rovers was of interest to the main stream media. It’s painfully difficult for the Trust to get anything in the local press or radio Lancashire most of the time.

Understand completely!

The local news outlets don't help at all, but I do think we still need to try and get more interaction with them.

Reading being in a similar predicament pre this weekend were getting a lot of local coverage.

Are the trust any closer to direct contact with the Venkys?

Edited January 15 by RoversClitheroe