I've heard some excuses in my time but to hear that Accy Stanley can afford to dish out free shirts to Primary school kids in our traditional heartlands because they 'make a profit' whilst we do nothing is up there. We don't do it because we have no idea and no serious intention to do anything about growing a fanbase. Andy Holt is serious about trying to grow his club and increase their support base, we aren't. Then Waggott and co. Question commitment. We're so far short on the game its untrue.

Not really a contender for greatest Lancs player by a long shot, but this thread reminded me of something. During the war my Grandad was involved in the campaign in Italy and during this time his regimental PT instructor was Rovers centre half Bob Pryde. Grandad used to tell me stories about Pryde taking the squad out for a 'run' around mount Etna only to take them 10 mins away from the camp and tell them to knock off, have a smoke and have a rest for half an hour before jogging back and doing their best to look like they'd been on a proper run. Grandad was the only one who didn't smoke (including Pryde), but he appreciated the break! Pryde went on to make 320 appearances for Rovers between 1933 and 1949, in spite of serving in the war, scoring 11 goals (or so a quick google tells me). Not sure how many years he was away for, but you'd have to imagine he'd be near the top of our all time appearances list if there hadn't been a war on. Eventually went on to manage Wigan for a couple of seasons too. Odd bit of family history, but might be of interest to some.

Nah nah nah nah nah, you have gone way too dramatic man. For one, nobody is saying it is all or nothing. I gave an estimate of 66% of our signings have improved the squad. Therefore it would be safe to assume I'm not saying it has been "totally good", duuuude. You may be questioning the effectiveness now, but your comment was in response to me telling Stuart I believed we have been performing adequately in that area. If you can point out to me somewhere where I've said otherwise then I'm happy to rescind that comment but I think you'll find I admitted there were some faults, but not enough to warrant the level of criticism. His windows have been successful. Our team has improved year on year and we are improving year on year. A measure of success is growth and we are growing. My reasoning for not judging transfers on league 1 is because people are trying to judge that level of transfers against what we currently have. We were a struggling side then, on a downward spiral, and desperate to get players in. We could only attract the likes of Whittingham and Caddis, but people forget Samuel got gols, Antonsson got goals, Dack, Downing, Bell have all turned out to have, at the time, improved the squad or continued to be important players. You write that transfer window off on the basis of two players - fine, but you should also expect it to be argued against. However, at the end of all of it, we got promoted as we should and now sit with a squad that consists of far superior players than he inherited. As a measure of recruitment, Blue Blood, here is the squad Mowbray had when he took over: Steele Nyambe Lenihan Mulgrew Williams Conway Guthrie Lowe Feeney Graham Emnes Bench: Stokes, Raya, Joao, Tomlinson, Gallagher, Mahoney Our squad vs Reading: Walton Bennett Lenihan Williams Cunningham Evans Travis Downing Dack Armstrong Gallagher Bench: Nyambe, Johnson, Graham, Canada, Bell, Holtby, Buckley. An absolute vast improvement. It was Mowbray who brought in Travis; Mowbray who brought in Mahoney; Mowbray who brought in Buckley; Mowbray who moved Williams to CB; Mowbray who bought those players. His recruitment, and team management, is being shown to have been successful because we are improving and HAVE improved. There's a big difference between criticising certain signings and considering Mowbray;s recruitment as a failure, which is what was being painted prior to my comments, and which you are now denying is the case. I'm not saying 100% of signings have been successful but it is in no way, shape or form been a failure. With reference to Brereton vs Holtby, you are comparing apples with pears. One is a player that is 29, had Champions League experience and hundreds of games at an elite level; the other is a 20 year old lad who had a lot of pressure and under 100 appearances at a second tier level. Not comparable. I'm not willing to write Brereton off after a season but I am willing to put my neck on the line that Holtby will be a good addition to our squad. What I did to come to that conclusion was look at the situations of either player (context) and form a judgement that isn't black and white in order to further a point I wanna make. BB hasn't shown enough so far but BB didn't choose his price tag either. I am willing to give him, and Mowbray, the benefit of the doubt for now. "It feels like any criticism of TM gets you rather worked up so probably not worth continuing this debate. TM has done some good stuff and great stuff but I think, and have given reasons for, his transfers not being his strongest area. " This line is pathetic and is just trying to take away from the discussion (exactly what 47er did too...shock). A lot of people have appreciated my posts, and I certainly haven't got worked up. It is tiring reading the same lines after lines though, especially when different posters at different times have addressed said issues- it disappears and then rears its head 3 weeks later but rewrapped in a different tone. You are allowed to have a different opinion to me Blue Blood and, in truth, I thought our two posts were us discussing and not arguing. I'm sorry you've got the impression that I'm trying to stifle debate but a brief look back through the posts will see I haven't been. Indeed I think they have been appreciated by quite a few posters. All talk of dramatic rhetoric and being worked up is just another way of trying to play the poster and not the point at hand. If you have points worth making, make them, regardless of whether you feel it will "work me up", which I can assure it almost certainly will not.

A slightly longer version of this week's Accrington Observer column The Ballad of Reading Goals Just before football once again became fashionable, post-Italia 90, Channel 4 dipped its toes into the niche market that was and in fairness probably still is; “football-related drama”, with its series “The Manageress”. Starring Cherie Lunghi as “Gabriella Benson” it charted the trials and tribulations of a woman in a man’s world as “Gabriella” becomes manager of a struggling second division side, charged with turning round their fortunes. Interestingly, if you look for this gem on Amazon, the DVD, quite wrongly, is described like this; “...the 1980s football-based TV drama starring Cherie Lunghi as the embattled first female manager of struggling Blackburn Rovers...”; ...it’s as if Don Mackay never existed! There are clips of the series available on YouTube and the sharp-eyed (& perhaps more mature) reader will notice it was filmed at Reading’s old Elm Park ground. Much has changed in the footballing world since 1990, although with one notable exception in France, a female manager of a 2nd tier side is not yet one of the regular features of the modern game. Reading left Elm Park and moved into the majestic Madejski Stadium in 1998; built apparently on the site of a former refuse dump, so yes indeed, obvious punchline fans; it is used to seeing a load of old rubbish served up on a regular basis. However, any rubbish dumped on Saturday came almost exclusively from the home side. The Royals used to be known as “The Biscuitmen” as a homage to the presence of Huntley & Palmer’s in the town, well that, or based upon the evidence presented on Saturday, perhaps a tendency to crumble in their own box? Much pre-match chatter surrounded the addition of Lewis Holtby to the Rovers ranks during the week and despite the proclamations that he had kept himself fit during the summer, most of his activity this week seemed to be courtesy of North Sea ferries and the M62 if social media were to be believed. An early appearance therefore seemed unlikely, but Tony Mowbray nevertheless named him as a substitute. Pre-match injuries and illness had robbed the team of the services of Adarabioyo and Rothwell and Mowbray confirmed that the switch to a back four had been enforced. The absence of Rothwell certainly made it a little easier to name Holtby on the bench. This also possibly meant a reprieve for Adam Armstrong and he was to prove influential in the first half scoring a lovely goal when set up by Stewart Downing, the two wide men combining neatly. At the start of the second half, Armstrong also contributed to the breakaway that resulted in a Rovers second. Gallagher broke down the left, looking up and seemingly struggling to choose between Armstrong and Dack appeared to pick out neither but some shoddy Reading defending allowed Dack time to stretch, control, turn, shoot and via a deflection, score his 40th Rovers goal on the occasion of his 100th appearance. He truly is Tony Mowbray’s best signing for Rovers and pound for pound, quite possibly of his managerial career. It’s on record that early in his Rovers career, in particular when being played wide left away at Shrewsbury and refusing to track back when Rovers lost possession, I questioned the wisdom of the signing. I couldn’t be happier to be proved wrong...yet again! The elegant solution to a problem I didn’t recognise that we had..! Rovers turned in a hugely encouraging team performance here, marred only by a momentary lapse of concentration as the former England junior international John Swift brought Reading back into the game in the 57th minute, not long after hitting the post from an almost identical position. Rovers hadn’t recognised the danger and their sloppiness in allowing a repeat attempt brought quite literally, Swift retribution. Not all that long ago, given the scenario of a goal pulled back by the home side, half an hour to play, I would have been fearful of a capitulation costing at least one if not three points. One of the really pleasing aspects of this game was the use of substitutes to impact on the conduct of that last 30 minutes and the quality that was available to Mowbray from which to select. First Holtby, then Johnson, followed by Graham, in a seven-minute spell with about 15-20 minutes to go, established that if Reading were to take anything, they needed to up their game considerably. Rovers and especially Holtby, started to treat possession with the due care and attention it deserves and when five minutes of added time was indicated, Rovers responded with a training ground passing/possession exercise that kept the ball for over three minutes, killing off any momentum that the home side tried to create. Last week I said that Reading away was exactly the sort of game that an aspiring promotion-chasing team should be looking to win. If there was any disappointment at all at full-time, it’s that Rovers only scored two, when comprehensively on top for large parts of the game. If Rovers can nail this deficiency and maintain the defensive solidity of the last few weeks (West Brom away apart) then hopes and expectations can be re-calibrated accordingly. Back to back home games in store next week will provide an opportunity for further assessment. Luton are enduring the sort of reality-check that might be expected of a side that has enjoyed two promotions in two seasons but any complacency displayed by Rovers could be punished so easily. Nottingham Forest at home, on paper at least, provides a much sterner test. They have enjoyed a revolving door of managerial appointments and player recruitment and as we know all too well, that is far from a guaranteed route to success but they are among the early front-runners in the Championship. Forest’s only defeat so far was on the opening day of the season, but since then they have collected some impressive scalps along the way including Fulham and Swansea away, so Rovers will find this to be a stern test of their credentials. The Championship currently has the top thirteen sides separated by just five points. Any team in this group taking six out of six from their next two fixtures can expect a loftier perch from which to view proceedings come early October. Can Rovers make it four on the bounce ? We shall see. Old Blackburnian

Well in our house, we made them wear a Burnley shirt, when they were in trouble. A cross between the naughty step and the stocks...with a bit of Thomas More's hair shirt thrown in ... Their psychiatrist says it didn't do them any harm!

Firstly you miss out the very hit and miss league 1 season out. (Smart move btw if disingenuous). That missed out clangers such as Whittingham Samuel and Caddis. Secondly throwing in Holtby and the City lad as positives, both of whom I think will turn out good btw, but on the basis of one or two appearances each is also a little bit disingenuous. One or two games (have either played 2 games?) is not enough to judge a player on but you massage the stats. Thirdly you haven't taken transfer fees into account at all. Bereton was a huge investment in 1 player and a colossal waste of money , likewise Gally for £5 million - I'm not sure we've seen value for money there yet either. So you need to factor in costs of players as well when considering whether they were a good or bad signing. I'd suggest for their fees none of our brought strikers have really matched their price tags. (Maybe Armstrong?) For example Smallwood was a good piece of business - cost nothing and was very useful/good for promotion. Had we spend £2-3 mill on him, for a 1 season wonder, it wouldn't look such a smart move. Fees matter. Fourthly, albeit perhaps point 3.5, is that none of the strikers as yet look like replacing Graham. For our favoured 4-2-3-1 formation despite £12+ mill of investment we don't look to have a suitable quality replacement. I hope Gally will do it but am not convinced despite his impressive work rate. Worth considering how the signings have shaped the squad too - or how the lack of signings in positions hurt us. The last two seasons I have done an end of season transfer review thread (search it out if interested) where I try to offer a balanced opinion on how well our transfer business has turned out and others do likewise. The consensus from the last 2 seasons was that it was pretty average at best. A couple of good uns amongst a fair bit of dross and failure. Whilst I think (here's hoping it continues) that our dealings are much better this season, the last 2 years show TM has been very average at best in his transfer dealings. I'm really pleased we've begun to pick up on this over the past summer, but the last few seasons need a lot of positive spin to make them out to be successes. As an aside you forgot Rodwell. In fairness his time here was very forgettable. Finally the point is you can do it fairly cheaply not that no money is spent. The money chucked on strikers alone is double what Norwich spent and goes a long way to countering their extra wages. Also it's not like our wages aren't competitive for the championship. AND money does not equal success as many clubs in this division and the prem have clearly shown. However recently Sheff Utd and Norwich have spent relatively frugally and done very well out of it. The issue are we getting as much value from the market as possible and the answer probably is, in comparison, no. Doesn't mean we hate the club, or aren't pleased with our current form, but even compared to Bowyer's recruitment we aren't getting the same bang for our bucks and could be doing better. Admittedly Bowyer's use of said resources was poor but the point is to do with recruitment and we got some steals - Cairney, Gestede, Conway, Duffy for example. And the point was solely this - that we could during TMs overall tenure do better at recruitment.

A better right back than Bennett

I don’t judge on stats, I judge on what I see. With this in mind I stand by opinion that Nyambe is a better right back than Bennett

‘We may all want him sacked’ sure sounded like you agreed with the sentiment? The rest of the post above is generally fair enough, but then surely you should be cutting some slack to others who haven’t as yet been on the journey and reached the same view you have over the past six weeks?

Hang on a minute Dreams you were happy for him to be sacked after TWO GAMES this season! So all a bit rich for you to now accuse other posters of being unreasonable and one eyed, unable to see the long term plan and development of the squad under him etc etc.

Yes it was to do with transfers, our not great performance with them, and being able to do well on it on a budget. It wasn't aimed as an overall evaluation of TMs time here, but evaluating how we have done in the market and how we could be getting better bang for our bucks. Respectfully disagree with you on most of your points! Although that is the joy of football having different opinions. League 1 imo was the worst set of signings we've had - although the omission of a proper defender the year after runs that close. So many flopped, like Whittingham & Caddis, and we wasted the use of the loans from bigger clubs. Interestingly Samuel caused the most debate, I thought he did ok but a lot of people argued quite convincingly otherwise. Given he was one of our biggest signings money wise (for a league 1 club it was a decent amount) and his form trailing off dramatically I think it's hard to call him a good signing. Not sure we can class players as good because of their pedigree - Whittingham being a recent example of that. Indeed we could go back to a certain central midfield pairing on relegation to show pedigree isn't a guarentee of success. Think both will be good for us mind, just want to hold fire on this till they actually are. Your Leicester analogy is not a like for like comparison whatsoever. The fact that 2 teams last season alone did it shows that it wasn't a once only event. It seems there have regularly been teams who have got promoted on a limited budget, Blackpool as one spring to mind, and many more have gotten very close to doing so via the playoffs. A one off like Leicester is a very different kettle of fish, not least because there's no top 4 / big 6 domenence in the Championship. Not sure Bowyer's signings are that different. Have prices really risen that much? Both sets of transfers happened in the championship and we pay competitive wages if not too whack in both cases too. Whether they go on to bang them in in the premiership is irrelevant imo unless it's either a) with Rovers or b) earned them a transfer to the prem for banging them in at Rovers. Kevin Davis is a great example of a bad transfer - blew a huge chunk of our budget and did nothing for us. Just because he came good later didn't make him a good signing for us. On this point Armstrong, Gally and Bereton haven't exactly been banging it in in the championship so it's hard to see them doing it in the Prem. Hard to use a hypothetical argument, especially when the existing evidence points against that. And whilst the first two have shown some talent Bereton patiently looks out of his depth in the championship and struggles to contribute much positive to us. If that isn't a waste of money for a 4th/5th choice striker who offers nothing then nothing will be. Even our seemingly positive summer window (too early to tell but happily it's looking good) if we look at who we brought for under the £7 mill - you see how much of a waste Bereton is in comparison. Given that Johnson, Downing and a few loan fees come clearly under that, our seemingly positive window also shouts out Bereton is a waste of money. Signings for less in the championship - the Hibs chap who went to Villa for half of Bereton's fee for example - shouts out Bereton is a waste of money. Being 20 doesn't negate that - some players aren't good enough and won't come good enough, BB falls into that category. I'm not trying to be down on TM but I do think transfers have been a weakness. I hope this has improved and this summer may have seen us turn the corner on that but so far i struggle to see this as a plus and I'm equally convinced teams on a budget can do well in the championship.

Otis Redding - (Sittin' on the) Dock of the Bay

@Paul Mani i found this comment a little strange: "Gally £5m and 8 games in a league where Bamfords get traded at 7-10m?" Bamford is a very good, proven Championship striker. He scored goals at Derby, Leeds and Boro where he won player of the year at this level. Gallaghers goal to game ratio in his overall record as a Championship striker is very undewhelming. Not saying we could have afford Bamfords wages or whatever but just found the comparison a strange one considering the difference in quality. Even with Breretons age, the fee does matter as @Blue blood rightly points out. But ultimately, prior to his injury he was not really close to getting a start, he still seems a way off the first team, we cant really spend 7m on someone so far away from making any sort of impact, its a bizarre situation considering how far away he looks when he does feature and how much hed already played for Foresr prior. And crucially is there any justification on what we have seen that Brereton or even Gally will be "banging in PL goals" or even payback their fees? Also, Rodwell was not fit for purpose as a centre back and Samuel scored 5 League goals and none after November. I would suggest that Mowbrays transfer dealings up until now are very mixed. I suspect that this summers business will prove to be his best window, that being said all the question marks for me surround the big money striker again. But we cant make definitive judgements on any yet or rule any as successes or failures. But I am optimistic.

I don’t intend on referring to all of this and of course it’s all about opinions but here goes: The league one signings overall were very good (hence promotion) and Samuel hit 10 goals before being displaced by our current player of the year and then picking up a long term injury. Holtby and Tosin can be seen as positive signings based on their pedigree and the clubs they’ve played for. BB is just turned 20. “A colossal waste of money” Wow Gally £5m and 8 games in a league where Bamfords get traded at 7-10m? Rodwell was very good for us in games last season. He’s good player, but a weird guy. Norwich are one of the exceptions to the rule. This is like bottom half PL teams saying they should be trying to win the league because Leicester did it. Of course there’s a model there but a lot of external things must line up for it to work. Some of Bowyers signings were excellent. But they were in a different market. Plus you have the benefit of hindsight. Maybe in a few years you will see the likes of Rothwell, Dack, Armstrong, BB and Gally banging goals in the PL for whoever and think...maybe it wasn’t all that bad after all! Finally, In the interests of balance you should have mentioned the managers development and integration of youth into our team. You may have simply been countering a previous post so I apologise if so. But if you’re neglecting all of this then I fear that is you who is being disengenuous. I look forward to your transfer review.

Think you misunderstood Stuart. Try it t'other way round pal. It's the future fans that should be a priority... apologies if my post was too obtuse. 500 kids over 1 overpaid kid everyday.

Great set of posts dreams of 1995.

Post edited so not too long. Again the point is missed - judging against league 1 standards for these players, as explained in the last post - many weren't that great. Antonsson being one example of that. Can't remember the whole thread but there were a fair number of failures in there too - Harper and Gladwin also spring to mind. I think though haven't checked that the success ratio was about 50:50 which isn't really all that great, and certainly not a good job. Think it would be the same the season after too. I would hope it had improved in 4 or 5 transfer windows and that is not being disputed. Again think this is a false dichotomy - as it doesn't assess how many players it's taken to get to this, how much spent, the fact he inherited a squad from Clueless which is a hell of a handicap for a club. I think this point 1) has a very low bar of comparison 2) doesn't show the full picture therefore not showing the full extent of how good TM is in the transfer market. Perhaps failure is perhaps too harsh a word, I would grant you that. However and the point I was making was it isn't good. And the last 2 seasons, up to this one, has been average to poor and not one of TMs strengths. Hopefully (early signs are promising) we will look back on this season and see the overall performance in transfers has improved but up till now it's been 50:50 at best which to me is not good enough and we could do better with - that is the point being made. The context of BB is that he hasn't performed. You aren't using the context regarding him. Also the issue is TM did chose his price tag and that is the problem - it was vastly over what it should be. Not trying to play the poster whatsoever but the flair for dramatic rests with you. Firstly there were lines of that nature - do you want every transfer to be excellent (or some such) for example which is heightened retoric. Secondly we don't need to appeal to likes from other posters to validate points - hopefully our reasoning does that for us. Thirdly it seems you wanted TM out after 2 games. Now I am assuming you didn't want him out on the basis of 2 games but those 2 games on top of last season's issues, which include a history of hit and miss transfer dealings. It is only in the summer where it looks like our transfer business has picked up. Probably done to death now. But if in the pub I said to you I think TM has been poor to mediocre at transfer dealings, and your response was look at this last windows dealings and our form, I think my response would be: "well it's a bit early to make a judgement imo, but the indications are it has picked up. Let's hope you are right at the end of the season." We'd probably not be as far off as we might sound. If it's more this season is great like the last few have been, then respectfully I'd say the last 2 years haven't been good at all. Again this season looks better and I hope it does keep that way. 7-8 games isn't enough for me to make that verdict as yet though.

Not many will be forking out 50 quid for 2 home games. Especially if get stung by the Waggott Tax at least once. Can see the Forest game being like a ghost town with quite a lot of ST holders unable to attend evening games. Should be an incentive for walk ons like buy Luton game get fiver off Forest.

Of course, but don’t take the moral high ground with others if they haven’t as yet changed theirs too.

I think it’s refreshing when people realise that their emotive rants were unnecessary and feel able to change their opinion.

"Andy Holt, Owner and Majority Shareholder of Accrington Stanley Football Club said: “So far almost 4,000 local school children have received an official Stanley shirt over the last few years and, as a club, we committed to do this for 5 years in total. It may not be viewed as the best financial move but for me it's a key part of my responsibilities to Accrington, as majority shareholder of the club". Can you imagine someone currently at Rovers saying or doing something like that ?

Eddie and the Hot Rods - Do Anything You Wanna Do

Burnley shirts are banned too. If I saw him with one I'd make sure it was accidentally ruined and replaced by a Rovers one but as grandparents both sets are behaving well so far

I don't understand what you are saying about Mahoney. He got the majority of his first team opportunities with us from Tony Mowbray but refused to renew his contract and then moved to a Premier League club where he never played - but presumably was better paid.

The trouble with physically impressive youth players is that they are (usually) no longer physically impressive when they enter the first team setup.

Yeah, you have to laugh at everyone thinking we're just going to turn up and blow them away. If they get in front it could be a long, dull afternoon.

Transfer fees are impossible to ascertain in an era of undisclosed fees. See above posts listing that Norwich's wage bill is amongst the highest in the league and has been throughout their years as a yo-yo club and beyond. The budget that Mowbray and Farke has is not comparable. Farke's far outweighs ours. Farke also inherited a club just out of the PL, whereas Mowbray inherited a basket case club destined for relegation with a squad of loanees and retirees. Not comparable in any way, if you apply context, and don't stick to a redundant stat like transfer fees and that alone to back your case. Apply some context, come back with a new argument and then the discussion can move on from "half-full" or "half-empty" because currently you and 47er et al aren't giving anything in the form of fact or context.

And Leicester, Wolves, Cardiff, Newcastle, Reading, Southampton, Watford and Bournemouth? Not to forget - the Boro’s, the Derby’s and many others who’ve spent a tonne and gone backwards (seem to remember a famous blue and white team doing something similar...) In fact since Tony’s last promotion - I can only see Blackpool, Burnley and Norwich (the former Two twice) have achieved promotion by “not spending much”... even though Norwich and Stendl had 100k PW on the bench last season in Rhodes et al. To quote one of my favourite albums of the last 20 years; “It was supposed to be so easyyyy”

We have a temporary loan situation. That just means it needs addressing again. Ergo it hasn’t really been addressed.

Lawrence deserves jail time for a certain miss anyway.

Nyambe is physically stronger and faster, which makes him harder to beat . What I have seen at Ewood and more importantly away, when we are under more pressure is less times that Nyambe has been beaten at right back than Williams

As for Lewis Holtby...

Good read

I don't want anyone to misunderstand me, as I want nothing more than for Brereton to be a roaring success, (believe me, nobody cheered more loudly than me when he bagged against Bolton last season), but it's looking a long way off that at the moment.

It isnt his fault but of course his price tag should play a part in how we judge him, you are bound to look of the opportunity cost. Coversely, Dack is even more of a good signing due to the low fee we paid. You are right, not all transfers work out as plan, those that dont will be criticised.

If we had to judge the signing of Brereton at this juncture, it would be safe to say he has not been a success. It doesn't seem like we know what to do with him, his confidence looks shot and we've seen little potential of the £7m we're paying for him. That doesn't mean he can't turn it around. Obviously the price tag isn't his doing but it is what it is. That's the money we've chosen to invest in him, and we need to see some return on it.

Mahoney is playing for Millwall. That is right isn’t it?

That's really what I was trying to say---badly perhaps for which I apologise.

We only have so much to invest. It was decided to invest it in new strikers instead of fans. One of those is the future of our club. The other is a bit of a waste.

Dire Straits - Brothers In Arms

Yup we often get a bit of a nosebleed when we have a chance of creeping into the playoff positions in this division. Really hope this is not the case this time. We have some older more experienced heads this time around, so hopefully they can help us to push on.

Me too, ideally at least until November 30th.

Being reported the Thomas Cook collapse could be a big problem for Wolves. Their owners were the biggest single shareholders at 18%. Estimated to be worth 1 billion at one point. The money they have already invested to get to the Prem and stay there, coupled with a 1 billion loss, then the potential of relegation looming. That could turn into a total disaster. Talk about quick changes of fortunes in football. From their awesome season last year, qualification for Europe etc, playing great stuff on the pitch - they could be back in the Champ and bankrupt in 8 months.

I'm not a fan of release clauses. They should be avoided when possible and set sky high when not. Otherwise, I agree.

Ian Dury and The Blockheads - Sex and Drugs and Rock 'n' Roll.

I deny it, yes. I don't deny we paid over £10m but I don't think they are poor. A clubs finances goes way and beyond transfer fees paid and is a very, very simplistic way of looking at things. Norwich's and Sheff Utd's expenditure outweighs ours so to say they went up spending less, or that we wasted more money than them, or that they are a model to base ourselves on is wrong because it isn't considering all the facts. Modern day real-life comparison: Leave the EU we save circa £350m a week. Truth: We do, in one respect, but we lose x this way and x this way. There is always more to a stat than the simple 1 line you are trying to peddle to criticise Mowbray with. You tell me, K-Hod. You provide a contrasting view from other posters and you are labelled "Half-Full Brigade". You try and use a post that applies actual facts, accounts and context and it's dismissed as over enthusiastic happy-clapping nonsense because the other poster has 0 to come back with. It seems only one side of the "positive vs negative" argument is punished or remarked upon

What a load of nonsense! It's got nothing to do with "glass half-full" (in fact, we aren't even speaking about Rovers here but other clubs so a slightly peculiar comment) it's do with the "facts", which is what you made out like you were putting forward, when actually it's only a fraction of the story. Both clubs have spent more, especially Norwich. Their wage bill blows most teams in this league out of the water so this idea that they "over achieved" based on expenditure is wrong. In actual FACT they were underachieving before their good form hit. If you want to end posts with "---------------fact" then I'd make sure they are actually "---------------------------------fact". Quote from yourself: "Other clubs have gone up without spending anything like that---Norwich and Sheffield UTD most recently", when it turns out they have actually spent pretty similar figures to us, if not more, over the course of 3 years. And there I'm finishing, I know from past experience I can never dim the enthusiasm or energy of the I Just Want A Reason To Moan Brigade.

Bit disturbing this! I assume your daughter knows she has a 50% interest in their child. So I hope she is insisting that the lad never sets foot in t'Turd and that he never wears that bilious, toxic shirt? It'll end in tears!

There's too many people here who's views are extremely one side or the other. No middle ground. You presume I dislike Mowbray because I dont feel we have developed our young players, but I have not once called for him to leave over the last 18 months. Like in all pub discussions, I'll pick up on viewpoints I don't agree with and give my opinion. I actually like the guy. For example, I don't think it was a 'gimme' that we should have got out of league one, and ultimately a mid-table finish was a decent return last season. What was frustrating last season is that we threw points away which we shouldn't have done (Leeds etc..). This season I expected up to kick on for the top 6 but have been disappointed we haven't addressed the the centre half problem, nor have we seemingly increased our firepower going forward. That's my opinion, but I can criticise the manager without wanting him hung ,drawn and quartered. To shove me in the 'disliking Mowbray' bracket is ridiculous. However I feel he has given too many chances to the league one team and has not given certain players the opportunities they need to prove themselves (see Rothwell, Chapman), whilst others have been given more chances despite not looking up to it to justify their arrival (see Brereton, Gally may fall in this category if he persists out wide whilst we create little). Dack was massively influencial in league one but, as I said after the Oldham game, with regards to controlling games he's looking a bit of a flat track bully. When we play inferior teams he dominates but when teams are on his 'level'. he can go missing for long spells. Fortunately he's got a goal poachers instinct so, like yesterday, he gets in the right positions and will score goals. I'd have him in my starting XI every week but, as I said, some people are saying he should have been cashed in on. Most people think he doesnt look as good as he did 12 months ago when making his Championhsip debut. For me to say regressing might have been harsh but for you to say he has come on 'leaps and bounds' under Mowbray is simply not true. As for Lenihan, he's the same player who got us relegated. Good lad, tries hard, championship defender, not great in the air. A lot of those goals we conceded in the air last year, which Mulgrew has taken the can for, where also down to Lenihan as well (see 2 goals conceded V Charlton on the opening day. He's certainly not been immense for us. Our defensive record last year tells you this.