Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Miker]

8 hours ago, Armchair supporter supremo said:

Plus after yet another arrogant little tirade at the fans the other day I can't stand the cretin now at a personal level. 

What did he say that has you so riled up?

[Mike E]

16 minutes ago, Miker said:

What did he say that has you so riled up?

He told us to confront each other and tell each other to shut up if we're negative.

[47er]

9 hours ago, Miker said:

Just give him until the end of the season.

Too many posters are basing their opinions on what has happened in the past and disregarding the fact that we are having a really good season so far with a lot of players finally fulfilling their potential and TM himself much improved with his selections and tactical decisions.

In TM’s 5 season with us so far he has neither overachieved or underachieved.

1st season - the form under him was excellent and we were very unfortunate to go down in the end.

2nd season - promoted on first time of asking

3rd season - comfortably avoided relegation zone and started the rebuild of the squad in the Championship

4th season - top half finish

5th season - this was the only major disappointment for me. We had a squad that was capable of promotion but we let it slip. Although I think a ridiculous number of injuries were the main contributor to our loss of form, TM didn’t make things better with a lot of baffling decisions

6th season - currently challenging for a playoff spot with a squad that’s got the 3rd most goals in the league playing some really great football at times

He’s basically made steady progress with us every season other than last season. You shouldn’t sack someone when they’re hitting their targets. If he still fails to achieve anything this season, bring someone new in and start fresh.

You haven't mentioned attendances! If things have improved year on year, where have the fans gone?And why?

[Wheelton Blue]

9 hours ago, 47er said:

Yet many Sheffield Utd fans blame Wilder for the mess that they are in.

eg from the BBC site:

This is Wilders terrible waste of money on pub league players thats left us in this mess 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He got them promoted to the PL and kept them there for 2 seasons.

I'd take that every time over our current outlook.

[Gav]

7 hours ago, Mike E said:

Some really interesting options out there if Venkys want to show a bit of ambition. I'm trying to channel the logic that brought Hodgson and Souness to Rovers. Or maybe I need to lay off the drink?

Andre Villas-Boas - Not exactly in favour when it comes to managing in England after lukewarm spells at Chelsea and Spurs, but has done well at clubs away from the spotlight. Trophies at Porto, won everything there is to win in Russia with Zenit St Petersburg, turned SIPG from also-rans to title contenders in China, and returned a floundering Marseille to the CL spots. Turns his teams into well-oiled machines. Who's to say a spell with Rovers without the pressure of the PL in one of English football's most secure jobs won't appeal?

Rudi Garcia - Named French Manager of the Year on three occasions, Rudi Garcia has edged toward journeyman territory since winning Ligue 1 with Lille a decade ago. He has enjoyed many good moments in his stints with Roma, Marseille and Lyon. Renowned for demanding an incredible work ethic from his squad.

Paolo Fonseca - Led Shakhtar as the dominant force in Ukraine, playing scintillating fast-break football. Also had good spells at Porto, Braga, and Roma; recently departed Roma despite having won around half his matches in charge of the club. Amazed he's not been snapped up.

Eddie Howe - His achievements at Bournemouth were often qualified, and there’s a sense he might have missed his chance at a top job following the Cherries’ demise at the end of his tenure. Don't let the ex-Dingle stuff put you off, I think he's got life left in him yet, possibly even as a Southgate replacement imo.

Quique Setien - Sporting the frankly awesome nickname of ‘El Maestro’ (nope, doesn't ring a bell at all) as a player, Quique Setien has had an eventful managerial career. He managed Equatorial Guinea and worked in the lower Spanish divisions. Made his name with Las Palmas and a highly fruitful Real Betis displaying the Cruyffian principles of Total Football that would attract Barca. A short and underwhelming stint at Barcelona followed, bit that wouldn't stop us, would it?

Lucien Favre - It ended in ugly fashion in Dortmund, but the lure of Lucien Favre remains. His teams play exhilarating football. On top of the fun, there’s plenty of substance too, with his teams often exceeding expectations. With experience in Switzerland, Germany and France, perhaps it’s time for an English club to take a chance on Favre?

If only Carlsberg did Blackburn Rovers managerial recruitment Mike.

[Spartakfenni]

9 hours ago, tomphil said:

Nonsense 

One season in the Prem could put this club back on an even keel again. However bad the results might be it would be worth swallowing it for a season. Then hopefully rebuild a bit stronger after relegation without a crippling wage bill.

We are nothing like the Brentford sadly this club needs a promotion. Not years of pulling to bits to put back together again pretending to follow some 'model'. The people we have trying to do that just aren't competent enough they are more comfortable downgrading not building up.

As for bad results it might have escaped your attention but we won 2 in 17 last season. And have just been whalloped 0-7 at home in the heaviest home defeat in history.

Somehow it might be a bit more palatable if it was Arsenal or City doing it at top level.

 

As a season ticket holder for the last 40 years I’ve long memories of seasons with long runs of defeats, and being on Ewood in the 1960’s when the whole of the crowd chanted sack the board. So yes I DO remember last season’s defeats.

9 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

They’re missing Raya.

Agreed, one of the best in the league and surely destined to make the Span squad.

9 hours ago, Armchair supporter supremo said:

"the Brentford model" ffs as if these things really happen completely by design. 

The model has been in place from their League 1 days under Mark Warburton. Their owner uses the moneyball methodology ffs.

[Miker]

35 minutes ago, Mike E said:

He told us to confront each other and tell each other to shut up if we're negative.

Negative or abusive?

[Wheelton Blue]

10 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

They’re missing Raya.

Maybe. Maybe not.

Either way, they're slipping.

[Mike E]

24 minutes ago, Miker said:

Negative or abusive?

Based on his definition of abuse: Criticising his managerial skills = vitriolic abuse of players.

So 'negative'.

[Wheelton Blue]

47 minutes ago, Spartakfenni said:

As a season ticket holder for the last 40 years I’ve long memories of seasons with long runs of defeats, and being on Ewood in the 1960’s when the whole of the crowd chanted sack the board. So yes I DO remember last season’s defeats.

Agreed, one of the best in the league and surely destined to make the Span squad.

The model has been in place from their League 1 days under Mark Warburton. Their owner uses the moneyball methodology ffs.

Irrespective of what the moneyball means and how Brentford apply it, its brought them no more success than Norwich, Sheff Utd.....

At the end of the day, for a club to be successful, whether using moneyball or otherwise, it needs a good manager (sorry head coach), which we don't have.

[47er]

1 hour ago, Wheelton Blue said:

He got them promoted to the PL and kept them there for 2 seasons.

I'd take that every time over our current outlook.

I’m not arguing with you! Just pointing out what I read.

[booth]

13 hours ago, Spartakfenni said:

Farke is up and down like a whore’s draws. Do you believe that IF he can get us promoted he’ll keep us up. If I’d been a Norwich supporter I’d not have bought season tickets for the premiership years. Watching certain relegation is soul destroying. We should have gone for the likes of Cooper, Potter, Critchley. They seem to have something about them. 

I don't care about him keeping us up, all I care about is getting the debt paid off making the club more desirable to new ownership. If the debt keeps mounting up and Venkys decide they are fed up with their "baby" then what then?

[Sparks Rover]

50 minutes ago, Wheelton Blue said:

Irrespective of what the moneyball means and how Brentford apply it, its brought them no more success than Norwich, Sheff Utd......

It has.  They've made close to 100m by selling unknowns like Watkins, Maupay, Benrhama and are in the Premier league irrespective of that.  Toney will be sold for a further £30m profit and if they stay up this season the owners 100m investment over 10 years (which isn't a lot) will turn into 300m....they have a good chance of staying up

The other 2 are nowhere near this position.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Sparks Rover

[Wheelton Blue]

2 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

It has.  They've made close to 100m by selling unknowns like Watkins, Maupay, Benrhama and are in the Premier league irrespective of that.  Toney will be sold for a further £30m profit and if they stay up this season the owners 100m investment over 10 years (which isn't a lot) will turn into 300m....they have a good chance of staying up

The other 2 are nowhere near this position.

And how much money have Norwich made in 3 seasons yo-yo'ing? 2 lots of promotion money, 2 lots of PL money, 2 lots of parachute money...

Anyway, I'll qualify my comment. It's brought them no more on field success than Norwich or Sheff U.

The point I'm trying to make, though, is that this moneyball thing isn't the be all and end all. It's merely one way of running a club, and one way to possibly become successful. The 2 other clubs I mention have been successful via a different approach. As have Burnley, for that matter.

[Ben Frost]

23 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

You are right, and I’m not going to turn down gossip, glad that he had your ear, it’s what makes the football world turn, but it speaks volumes of the calibre of Exec we now have.

To be fair John Williams was exactly the same. He bought us a drink in one of the lounges once and he and I got chatting at the bar. Back at the table Tom Finn joked to Mrs Frost "that's the last you'll see of Ben tonight" and he wasn't far wrong - I got the next round in and we were still stood at the bar. 

I guess the only difference is I didn't get home and share any of that conversation on the internet.

[Mattyblue]

As I said, the football industry runs on gossip, all fair game.

And like you, I spent a bit of time with Williams and he loved his ‘off the record’ tidbits, but could you have imagined him in the Premier Suite, just half an hour after a big win saying to whoever’s listening; ‘Greame/Mark/Sam would have been sacked without those three points!’.

?

Edited November 8, 2021 by Mattyblue

[tomphil]

Iv'e always found that those involved in football or were once involved tend to split into 2 camps.  Those who like to talk and talk - especially if there's a beer in good supply - and will tell all.

And those who barely say a word about it no matter how much prodding or alcohol is being applied.

There never seems to be much in the middle the shop is either wide open or closed.  Only difference is when it's wide open a lot of stuff gets spouted that is probably just hot air or rumour and hearsay, much as it is to fans as well.

[Ben Frost]

6 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

As I said, the football industry runs on gossip, all fair game.

And like you, I spent a bit of time with Williams and he loved his ‘off the record’ tidbits, but could you have imagined him in the Premier Suite, just half an hour after a big win saying to whoever’s listening; ‘Greame/Mark/Sam would have been sacked without those three points!’.

?

But this sounds like it was a private conversation rather than a broadcast to "whoever's listening". 

And yes I can imagine that... half of my conversation with JW that evening was about Paul Ince. 

[Spartakfenni]

20 minutes ago, Wheelton Blue said:

And how much money have Norwich made in 3 seasons yo-yo'ing? 2 lots of promotion money, 2 lots of PL money, 2 lots of parachute money...

Anyway, I'll qualify my comment. It's brought them no more on field success than Norwich or Sheff U.

The point I'm trying to make, though, is that this moneyball thing isn't the be all and end all. It's merely one way of running a club, and one way to possibly become successful. The 2 other clubs I mention have been successful via a different approach. As have Burnley, for that matter.

How dare you mention those 6 fingered inbreeds on here. Shame on you.

[Wheelton Blue]

7 minutes ago, Spartakfenni said:

How dare you mention those 6 fingered inbreeds on here. Shame on you.

Sorry. I'll go and wash my mouth out 🙂

[Mattyblue]

13 minutes ago, Ben Frost said:

But this sounds like it was a private conversation rather than a broadcast to "whoever's listening". 

And yes I can imagine that... half of my conversation with JW that evening was about Paul Ince. 

Well of course it was ‘private’, he didn’t wrestle the microphone off the MC! But he is obviously willing to discuss how the manager has just avoided the sack to whoever he happens to sits down with in the bar.

Well you obviously remember a much less candid JW than me, yes he loved a gossip, but I don’t ever recall him being as unprofessional as the current incumbent when it comes to his employees.

 

Edited November 8, 2021 by Mattyblue

[Sparks Rover]

39 minutes ago, Wheelton Blue said:

And how much money have Norwich made in 3 seasons yo-yo'ing? 2 lots of promotion money, 2 lots of PL money, 2 lots of parachute money...

Anyway, I'll qualify my comment. It's brought them no more on field success than Norwich or Sheff U.

The point I'm trying to make, though, is that this moneyball thing isn't the be all and end all. It's merely one way of running a club, and one way to possibly become successful. The 2 other clubs I mention have been successful via a different approach. As have Burnley, for that matter.

I'm not arguing with you mate, just Brentford are in a better position than both Norwich and sheff utd...Jesus, we battered them on Saturday.  

It is one method but I'd rather have that than Delia and Co.

[Wheelton Blue]

1 minute ago, Sparks Rover said:

I'm not arguing with you mate, just Brentford are in a better position than both Norwich and sheff utd...Jesus, we battered them on Saturday.  

It is one method but I'd rather have that than Delia and Co.

No arguments from me either 🙂....I was just trying to say that there's more than one way to get success. Without a decent manager though, it's impossible.

Yeah, Sheff U were poor alright, in complete contrast to Fulham who they came down with.

[RevidgeBlue]

24 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

As I said, the football industry runs on gossip, all fair game.

And like you, I spent a bit of time with Williams and he loved his ‘off the record’ tidbits, but could you have imagined him in the Premier Suite, just half an hour after a big win saying to whoever’s listening; ‘Greame/Mark/Sam would have been sacked without those three points!’.

?

I'm the last person to defend Waggott but what was it he allegedly said ?

"Tony made some bold calls with his job on the line". ?

That's would hardly be a major surprise or giving away any state secrets after a record 0-7 home defeat, a desperately disappointing season last time out and all the better players moving nearer to being out of contract would it?

Depending on the context of the conversation he could have been saying how well Mowbray had done and might not personally be in favour of  moving him out. I doubt he has any real say in the matter anyhow other than give his opinion.

They both have to go if we're to move on. Now would actually be a good  time to do it with us in a reasonable position in the table.

I see Miker above is already saying '"give him until the end of the season". If we do that, this season will be wasted, there's a fair chance next season will be another waste and surely the only faint chance of retaining the out of contract players lies in bringing in a manager and CEO they really believe in.

[Roverthechimp]

12 hours ago, tomphil said:

Nonsense 

One season in the Prem could put this club back on an even keel again. However bad the results might be it would be worth swallowing it for a season. Then hopefully rebuild a bit stronger after relegation without a crippling wage bill.

We are nothing like the Brentford sadly this club needs a promotion. Not years of pulling to bits to put back together again pretending to follow some 'model'. The people we have trying to do that just aren't competent enough they are more comfortable downgrading not building up.

As for bad results it might have escaped your attention but we won 2 in 17 last season. And have just been whalloped 0-7 at home in the heaviest home defeat in history.

Somehow it might be a bit more palatable if it was Arsenal or City doing it at top level.

 

Based on past events I could see us creating a monstrous wage bill, relegation and so on…

sound familiar?