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Summer transfer window 2021.


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I think this data stuff these lads produce is based on what Rovers are doing anyway, or along those lines. That's why it often seems to tally up with Mowbrays stuff although at times it does appear like it's done to back him up.

In other words i think they are trying to impress him and the club rather than just promote his possession football as successful. 

It does though act as a beacon for some to hold up in support of the manager. Also a bit of coincidence they do stuff about finishing in midtable with a young team and reduced wage bill. As opposed to getting in some more experience on bigger wages and ending up finishing there anyway. Then hey presto that looks like the direction the club is now taking 😉

A tip off or two there maybe, sadly that scenario rests at the managers door no one else. His poor judgement and couldn't give one attitude plays the biggest part in a good strong squad floundering.

Likewise that has now led us to potentially having to cut back and curtail. Evolution it most certainly isn't, no matter how many analysts jump all over it.

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26 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

This is used by many football clubs IMO. 

How do you think Football clubs recruitment find their transfer targets and how do you think Clubs scout players and what tools do they used? 

Of Course Andy would like to get into football recruitment job. 

What do you think of the transfers targets he suggested? 

I know that data is in general, im saying that we have no ideas as to whether it would be of any use to clubs in this specific format, to this level of detail, all this document is a mere discussion topic between fans, not in any way something that football clubs are or will be using, and its important to remember that.  Of course, whether its purely based on data, watching random highlights, whatever, his opinion on who we should sign is just as valid as anyone else, no more, no less.

Ive not seen most play enough if at all to comment and a few of the foreign ones I have never heard of, so couldnt possibly comment.

To be honest, I am struggling to find any enthusiasm towards who we will sign in a summer in which our underperforming manager will remain and our best player will likely leave too.

25 minutes ago, DE. said:

Bias is one of the biggest problems when it comes to data analysis and is often unconscious, which is why typically there are teams involved checking to ensure unconscious bias isn't clouding any conclusions or shaping the way the data has been modelled. With that said it's also not uncommon for data to be purposefully manipulated to suit a specific viewpoint, particularly when funding or similar issues are in play. Not saying Andy is guilty of that for the record, just a general point to consider when looking at any data analysis. 

100% agree. Data can be useful but is merely a tool, and a tool that can very easily be misused and manipulated.

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29 minutes ago, yeti-dog said:

 

Albert Einstein apparently once said;  “Not everything that can be counted counts and not everything that counts can be counted.”

That pretty much sums up my feelings on data in football - it has a part to play but so do lots of other things...

 

Your eye doesn't lie!

If a player looks shit, he generally is.

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1 hour ago, DE. said:

Bias is one of the biggest problems when it comes to data analysis and is often unconscious, which is why typically there are teams involved checking to ensure unconscious bias isn't clouding any conclusions or shaping the way the data has been modelled. With that said it's also not uncommon for data to be purposefully manipulated to suit a specific viewpoint, particularly when funding or similar issues are in play. Not saying Andy is guilty of that for the record, just a general point to consider when looking at any data analysis. 

Fun story - I once worked for a huge sports broadcaster. One day in the office I watched the football team draw names out of a hat on who do a feature on. Within 3 hours there was a 5 minute feature explaining why Kovacic was Chelsea’s best player. It was broadcast worldwide. He isn’t their best player. 

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47 minutes ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

Yeah the *Not Dino* version.

 He was the most anticlimactic signing ever.  I watched loads of Italian football on channel 4 and Dino always looked a good player, I was pleased when we signed him and thought he'd be really strong for us. Then he played 😭😭😭 Dog, but still better than Keith.

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56 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

 

100% agree. Data can be useful but is merely a tool, and a tool that can very easily be misused and manipulated.

You are attempting to quantify a very subjective and unpredictable context. It is rather arrogant to think this can be done or converted into numbers. Things don't happen as expected in football.  It's a guide a way to strengthen a train of thought, but foolish to place certainty on such mathematics based on flimsy equations.

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53 minutes ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

Your eye doesn't lie!

If a player looks shit, he generally is.

Too true.

I played with a lad on the Uni team many years ago, quick as a whippet but never looked up and had often run on to the adjacent Rugby field before he realised and belatedly put the brakes on...

If he had a football 'brain' it was hidden somewhere deep and very rarely came out to play. 

 

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1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

I know that data is in general, im saying that we have no ideas as to whether it would be of any use to clubs in this specific format, to this level of detail, all this document is a mere discussion topic between fans, not in any way something that football clubs are or will be using, and its important to remember that.  Of course, whether its purely based on data, watching random highlights, whatever, his opinion on who we should sign is just as valid as anyone else, no more, no less.

You don't know whether this sort of documents is used by clubs. My opinion is most clubs will used this sort of documentation, data analysis tools and video clips of his performances. Rovers used WYscout app as scouting tool and we know this cos Waggott and Mowbray have confirmed this. There is different clubs director of football or recruitment chiefs on youtube explaining how they used WYscout as their scouting tool.  

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

To be honest, I am struggling to find any enthusiasm towards who we will sign in a summer in which our underperforming manager will remain and our best player will likely leave too.

TBH, most transfers will be happening in July or August not now whoever the manager is here for next season. 

I would be more interested in the club releasing the Season Ticket details for next season or the new home Shirt now not signings players. Plus we have the Euro's shortly to watch. 

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1 hour ago, Ulrich said:

 He was the most anticlimactic signing ever.  I watched loads of Italian football on channel 4 and Dino always looked a good player, I was pleased when we signed him and thought he'd be really strong for us. Then he played 😭😭😭 Dog, but still better than Keith.

And Jason 

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8 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

👀

 

DFBDCBC7-1B46-410B-BA7C-656E57D7E47A.png

I lost interest in anything this guy had to say when he defended Mowbray recently by claiming under nearly every metric we had progressed. Clearly after a job with the Club or already involved with the Club in some way on this nonsensical analytics lark.

I had cause to Google Glynn Chamberlain at the weekend who is our head of European scouting and I found it very refreshing that he bucked this trend somewhat by having written in an article on scouting that nothing beat casting an experienced eye over a player.

Also it might be just me, but I can't see the use of analytics tools if they can't incorporate whether or not a players wage demands. I'm sure you can spend a few hours compiling a list of the top ten players with the most passes in a certain part of the pitch blah blah but if their financial demands are out of your league then it's a complete waste of time.

Stats don't tell you if a player has heart or whether they fancy a freezing Tuesday night in February away at Barnsley etc either.

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2 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I lost interest in anything this guy had to say when he defended Mowbray recently by claiming under nearly every metric we had progressed. Clearly after a job with the Club or already involved with the Club in some way on this nonsensical analytics lark.

I had cause to Google Glynn Chamberlain at the weekend who is our head of European scouting and I found it very refreshing that he bucked this trend somewhat by having written in an article on scouting that nothing beat casting an experienced eye over a player.

Also it might be just me, but I can't see the use of analytics tools if they can't incorporate whether or not a players wage demands. I'm sure you can spend a few hours compiling a list of the top ten players with the most passes in a certain part of the pitch blah blah but if their financial demands are out of your league then it's a complete waste of time.

Stats don't tell you if a player has heart or whether they fancy a freezing Tuesday night in February away at Barnsley etc either.

Andy would love a job with Rovers, wouldn't we all? He's a passionate fan and believes in what he does. And he does it very well. 

He has recently stated that he believes a change of manager is needed so there's no hidden agenda with regards to 'defending' Mowbray. 

If you can't see the use in analytical tools then I think you need read more about it. No they don't tell you wage demands, that's when you start negotiating with players and agents. 

I find it quite sad that many people have chosen to react this way to Andy's work, but I guess I am not surprised. 

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6 hours ago, yeti-dog said:

 

Albert Einstein apparently once said;  “Not everything that can be counted counts and not everything that counts can be counted.”

That pretty much sums up my feelings on data in football - it has a part to play but so do lots of other things...

 

Also the oldest saying in the book,

"There are lies, damn lies and statistics".

(Benjamin Disraeli)

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3 minutes ago, Wegerleswiggle said:

If you can't see the use in analytical tools then I think you need read more about it. No they don't tell you wage demands, that's when you start negotiating with players and agents. 

 

Might explain partly why we can never get any deals over the line. The analysts spend hours compiling a list of targets then we put offers in commensurate with our budget which don't match those of the players in question or their agents.

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16 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I lost interest in anything this guy had to say when he defended Mowbray recently by claiming under nearly every metric we had progressed. Clearly after a job with the Club or already involved with the Club in some way on this nonsensical analytics lark.

I had cause to Google Glynn Chamberlain at the weekend who is our head of European scouting and I found it very refreshing that he bucked this trend somewhat by having written in an article on scouting that nothing beat casting an experienced eye over a player.

Also it might be just me, but I can't see the use of analytics tools if they can't incorporate whether or not a players wage demands. I'm sure you can spend a few hours compiling a list of the top ten players with the most passes in a certain part of the pitch blah blah but if their financial demands are out of your league then it's a complete waste of time.

Stats don't tell you if a player has heart or whether they fancy a freezing Tuesday night in February away at Barnsley etc either.

Absolutely and that is why, as again stated in the document, there are traditional scouting analysis for every player recommended. Also, if you have any time, watch the recent Stats Show videos on modern recruitment. An agreement that the visual, video and data analysis has to be in sync. In fact, I weighted all of my work towards visual scouting. It takes a long time to get to know these players and know that they are the right character for your club. God knows we need some character bringing in.

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8 minutes ago, AndyW said:

15th wasn't good enough so I tried to use analysis to find the key reasons for that 

The manager's no bloody good and isn't getting the best of his players!

And no amount of data analysis or research can change or gloss over that fact.

And for me it doesn't matter a jot whether you play like Guardiola or Dyche IF you're winning every game. I have a bit of an issue with rubbish football if you're only scraping to safety every season under say Allardyce but that's a different argument

Sorry to sound harsh Andy, I wish you well in your future career path if that is your passion, it's just not for me at all I'm afraid.

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23 minutes ago, AndyW said:

But what I do want to see is a continuation of the progressive football philosophy 

Does this actually exist.? I don't see progress. Our football is slow and cumbersome for for majority of the season.

I see no progress. 

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42 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Might explain partly why we can never get any deals over the line. The analysts spend hours compiling a list of targets then we put offers in commensurate with our budget which don't match those of the players in question or their agents.

You would have the same problem spending hours using the eyes of your scouts to get reports. The problem you're describing isn't the way in which reports are accumulated (which will definitely be from data AND scouts btw) but rather the shambolic and lethargic way in which we do business in general these days.

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8 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Does this actually exist.? I don't see progress. Our football is slow and cumbersome for for majority of the season.

I see no progress. 

Exactly. I watched almost every game last season and we regressed. 

Tony tries to convince us that our football progression is further on than it was a few years ago, but as far as enjoyment of watching Rovers go I preferred the League One and first season back performances, where we actually got the ball in the box and caused some excitement.

We've boosted our performance stats in areas which might look good on paper, but we are going backward in terms of results and excitement. And no stat on earth will tell me Gallagher should be on the wing.

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Progress ?…. What progress?

The squad has gone backwards

The pitch has gone backwards 

The ground has gone backwards 

The respect of Rovers fans towards the club has gone backwards 

The sale of season tickets has gone backwards ( if and when ever they are announced )

…..Progress? ….we need a gear change…and it will ONLY be achieved by the removal of 3 men who have taken us to this depressing point . 

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Just now, Dolly blue said:

The sale of season tickets has gone backwards ( if and when ever they are announced )

Season tickets pricing and announcement wont done when Waggott is on Holiday. 

Unless we havent heard from any of Waggott and Mowbray since end of the season cos they are set to be sack shortly. Didnt @darrenroversay Mowbray will be gone by end of May? 5 days to go

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9 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Also it might be just me, but I can't see the use of analytics tools if they can't incorporate whether or not a players wage demands. I'm sure you can spend a few hours compiling a list of the top ten players with the most passes in a certain part of the pitch blah blah but if their financial demands are out of your league then it's a complete waste of time.

I would assume that usually statistics are compiled after a shortlist has been drawn up or a suitable player has been identified as a potential transfer, in the same way you'd do before sending scouts out to look at them. I doubt there are many if any professional clubs blindly running general statistics on all players for transfer purposes. Possibly such systems exist at bigger clubs where money is less of an object and they are looking to snap up younger players from lower leagues showing potential, but at the vast majority of clubs requests for data will be pinpointed on specific targets which the club would already have identified as being within their wage/transfer budget. Otherwise, as you say, compiling those statistics would largely be a waste of time and resource.

There are obviously human elements that data can't account for, though, which is why in-person scouting and face-to-face meetings still exist. Data is really just a foundation to help decide what actions to take going forward.

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