Jon Dahl Tomasson - Officially No Longer Our Head Coach

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

My actual point was more a general musing about how JDT seems happy enough with the parameters the owners/GB/SW have set him, despite some optimistic talk about how he wouldn’t settle for a TM style development project and would rather walk out the door…

 

JDT always said it was a project from moment one of him joining the club. 

here are his quotes 

“I’ve been searching for the right project

“I’ve been searching for the right project and actually it was the project that found me" | rovers.co.uk

“This is a plan, a project,”

“It’s what I bought into - building success not only for tomorrow but for further, which you can keep for a steady period. Everyone wants this club to get back to the Premier League - where it belongs, if you look at the history.

“We need to be clever, do the right things and pick up the right players with the way we want to play football - an intense game.

Jon Dahl Tomasson excited by Blackburn Rovers training session | Lancashire Telegraph

 

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Tomasson will for the forseeable be shielded for much of the potential criticism because some with withhold all potential criticisms on account of it being early days.

We cannot possibly give a manager 3 whole years with the only out being if it goes "catastrophically wrong." A managers future should always be an ongoing thing, whereby if progression couple with results is not forthcoming then the managers position becomes jeopardised. Further time needs to be earnt, alas under most owners it is.

There has been a lot of optimism caused by what people say rather than what they do as is always the case in the early days, I remember the same posters who now are making out that Tomasson merely not being Mowbray means that he is a clear upgrade eating out of the latter's hand in the first couple of years in fans forums etc.

It is very early days admittedly and it has been a real mixed bag once you start judging on actions rather than words. Overall the league table looks healthy, the performance level especially after a quick start does not bode well with our current style not looking productive whilst being really boring to watch. Off the pitch, the choice to essentially write off an eight figure income for a season extra of our main player within a season being written off as a "transition" one already was always to me a huge black mark on the incoming regime. Conversely, I think we had done a few good bits and pieces on the contract front elsewhere, although players who have barely kicked a ball in senior football was never the issue in the past, it was when graduates got to the point whereby they could reasonably expect to be within the high earners. The new signings so far with reasonable funds look at best a real mixed bag.

Why can't we give JDT 3 years to get us promote to the PL and to bring success to Rovers? JDT and GB has spoken it will take about 3 transfer windows to shape the squad that they want so we can get the success and promotion we all crave for. Norwich gave Farke a year to settle in and shape the squad before he delivered the success and promotion they wanted! 

So, you are bored our watching Rovers try to play a passing style of play? 

No club has Broughton confirmed in a number of recent interviews that no club even offered a bid anywhere close to what we want, and you shouldn't sell on the cheap like you would have done. Rovers have a price we want, and we were right to stick to it 

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

There are plenty of clubs (example 1, Chelsea at the top end, or Watford with them being a Prem Club for most of the last decade) that defy the idea that stability and success automatically go hand in hand.

But there is a huge middle ground between catastrophically wrong (what does that entail, relegation?) and "incredible results within 18 months" which is the key thing here. There can't be a total disregard to always needing results in the short term even before you consider the illogical nature of putting too much stock in a "long term project" in the Championship considering the common high player turnovers each season, added to by loan deals being so common.

Tomasson like any other manager/head coach should need to justify extra time and extra trust in keeping him. If he sticks to this way of playing and it over time starts showing signs of knitting together both in performances and crucially results, then excellent. If not, and I am not for one minute implying that such a decision is near, but the consideration down the line needs to be made as to whether blind faith should continue to be put into a manager who is showing little signs for optimism on the pitch.

The thing is, he won't because under Venkys, he likely will get 3 seasons even if he took us down, but that is a different point altogether.

Oh yes, Watford that have had 5 managers/head coach within 1 year, or 18 different head coaches/managers in 10 years since they bought the club including some quality manager like Mazzarri, Javi Garica, Jokanovic or Flores or Munoz. Maybe cos of this constant hire and fire policy is one of the reasons why there is so much instability at the club and such a turnover in staff and playing staff.  

[roversfan99]

16 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

JDT always said it was a project from moment one of him joining the club. 

here are his quotes 

“I’ve been searching for the right project

“I’ve been searching for the right project and actually it was the project that found me" | rovers.co.uk

“This is a plan, a project,”

“It’s what I bought into - building success not only for tomorrow but for further, which you can keep for a steady period. Everyone wants this club to get back to the Premier League - where it belongs, if you look at the history.

“We need to be clever, do the right things and pick up the right players with the way we want to play football - an intense game.

Jon Dahl Tomasson excited by Blackburn Rovers training session | Lancashire Telegraph

 

Why can't we give JDT 3 years to get us promote to the PL and to bring success to Rovers? JDT and GB has spoken it will take about 3 transfer windows to shape the squad that they want so we can get the success and promotion we all crave for. Norwich gave Farke a year to settle in and shape the squad before he delivered the success and promotion they wanted! 

So, you are bored our watching Rovers try to play a passing style of play? 

No club has Broughton confirmed in a number of recent interviews that no club even offered a bid anywhere close to what we want, and you shouldn't sell on the cheap like you would have done. Rovers have a price we want, and we were right to stick to it 

Oh yes, Watford that have had 5 managers/head coach within 1 year, or 18 different head coaches/managers in 10 years since they bought the club including some quality manager like Mazzarri, Javi Garica, Jokanovic or Flores or Munoz. Maybe cos of this constant hire and fire policy is one of the reasons why there is so much instability at the club and such a turnover in staff and playing staff.  

Only 3 seasons if he proves that he warrants 3 years. Not 3 years no matter what happens.

Regarding the style, I have found the performances barring 1 or 2 exceptions to be painfully dull, yes. As ever though, I get no pleasure from losing but playing supposedly good football and get lots from any win so its about results. But I do have grave reservations about the sustainability of our results should we continue to try and play walking football, passing it along the backline.

Watford have had a much better last decade than us with our "time and patience" approach that you suggested. Ultimately it depends on the individual managers, not so much the approach.

[jim mk2]

29 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Oh yes, Watford that have had 5 managers/head coach within 1 year, or 18 different head coaches/managers in 10 years since they bought the club including some quality manager like Mazzarri, Javi Garica, Jokanovic or Flores or Munoz. Maybe cos of this constant hire and fire policy is one of the reasons why there is so much instability at the club and such a turnover in staff and playing staff.  

Watford have been in the Premier League for 6 of the past 8 seasons, which suggests they're doing something right

Most Rovers fans would snap their hand off for that kind of "instability"

[bazza]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I’m not expecting overnight success but I am expecting to see a better standard of football than what I’m seeing at the moment. Even some small green shoots of improvement would be nice.

This is exactly it. Agree 100%

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Only 3 seasons if he proves that he warrants 3 years. Not 3 years no matter what happens.

Somewhat agree but I see this season as more of transition season for us and JDT as he learns about the league, playing style at this level from other teams and gets his playing style over the players by having them for period of time on the training ground which he isn't getting at the time. 

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Regarding the style, I have found the performances barring 1 or 2 exceptions to be painfully dull, yes. As ever though, I get no pleasure from losing but playing supposedly good football and get lots from any win so its about results. But I do have grave reservations about the sustainability of our results should we continue to try and play walking football, passing it along the backline.

I don't pleasure how of us getting losing games. I think I have been clear about this before. 

I think they have more performances I have enjoyed than just 1 or 2. The Blackpool and Watford games were really good performances. I enjoyed how we adapted how we played to beat Swansea and were solid against them. I enjoyed the WBA and the fact how we played given those conditions that day which was some of the hottest I seen Football played at Ewood. QPR was a decent performance by the team. Against Millwall was boring first half cos each team didn't want to give anything anyway, but I do feel our tempo and movement first half was very poor. second half was better but both goals had an element of luck in them

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Watford have had a much better last decade than us with our "time and patience" approach that you suggested. Ultimately it depends on the individual managers, not so much the approach.

Yes but maybe if they had stuck by certain managers instead of this sack and hire policy then they might well had more PL football. For example, why sack a head coach in Munoz who got them promotion and had them 15th in the league then they might well have stay up if they kept him. It also reminds me of watching Serie A in the 90's on channel 4 when clubs would be following similar ways to what Watford do. IMO, Clubs need stability and head coaches need time and patience to get their coaching methods, ideas, formation and style of play over to the players. It's why I thought the Rob Edwards was harsh after only 10 games. If they had sacked him in the break for world cup cos results was poor and fearing, they were going to miss on promotion then I can understand that. 

[roversfan99]

If this season is just a transitional season then why are we making any short term focused decisons, such as keeping Brereton and loaning players in?

There has to be positive evidence that the transition is ongoing to warrant that second year. I personally think the target should be to beat 8th but there would be scope for keeping Tomasson potentially even with a lower finish than that if there was a suggestion on the pitch that a plan was coming together. It shouldnt just be a write off that this season is for adjustment because we need to be able to believe that a plan is coming together.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I remember when Kenny came in at first. OK he signed a few good players in the beginning but it didn’t take long for the style of football we were playing to improve massively. The passing speeded up 100% for a start.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

If this season is just a transitional season then why are we making any short term focused decisons, such as keeping Brereton and loaning players in?

As I and others have said we kept Brereton-Diaz cos no club even offered a bid that was acceptable to the club. You would have sold him for low transfer fee whilst plenty of us wouldn't have done. Rovers didn't. For some unknown reason you would let this drop now even when you even heard from our Director of Football Gregg Broughton tell you directly why he wasn't sold. 

Also, Hirst and Mola are here on loan to potential permanent moves so there is some sort of long-term plan but Rovers want to have a look at them before committing to signing them

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

There has to be positive evidence that the transition is ongoing to warrant that second year. I personally think the target should be to beat 8th but there would be scope for keeping Tomasson potentially even with a lower finish than that if there was a suggestion on the pitch that a plan was coming together. It shouldnt just be a write off that this season is for adjustment because we need to be able to believe that a plan is coming together.

 I'm not saying we should write off the season and I have never said we should have I, but the transition might happen quickly than I think it will, but I am not expecting a top 6 finish this season. I can see some positive evidence already under JDT and the players. I didn't think we would be 7th after 12 league games, and I was expecting us to mid table at best cos of the change of head coach and some changes to the coaching/backroom staff plus around 10 changes to the playing squad this season plus a change of playing style and coaching style. 

Edited October 6, 2022 by chaddyrovers

[Nuttall is lost]

How do yo correctly pronounce his name?  I always thought it was Jon Dahl (as in Roald Dahl) Tomasson.

Sky seem to pronounce him Jon Dale Tomasson

Edited October 6, 2022 by Nuttall is lost

[roversfan99]

18 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

As I and others have said we kept Brereton-Diaz cos no club even offered a bid that was acceptable to the club. You would have sold him for low transfer fee whilst plenty of us wouldn't have done. Rovers didn't. For some unknown reason you would let this drop now even when you even heard from our Director of Football Gregg Broughton tell you directly why he wasn't sold. 

Also, Hirst and Mola are here on loan to potential permanent moves so there is some sort of long-term plan but Rovers want to have a look at them before committing to signing them

 I'm not we should write off the season and I have never said we should have I, but the transition might happen quickly than I think it will, but I am not expecting a top 6 finish this season. I can see some positive evidence already under JDT and the players. I didn't think we would be 7th after 12 league games, and I was expecting us to mid table at best cos of the change of head coach and some changes to the coaching/backroom staff plus around 10 changes to the playing squad this season plus a change of playing style and coaching style. 

Just to clarify, Broughton coming out and explaining his reasoning doesn't invalidate or change my opinion. We have essentially paid 10 million to loan a goalscorer in a "transitional" season.

But going onto Tyler Morton, why loan him if it is a transitional season? The idea of a transitional season at Championship level especially with the reliance on loans throughout the league and the high player turnover is foolish anyway and its just regular management speak.

Also, you was expecting 10 changes to the playing staff? You spent all summer repeating that we only needed 6.

15 minutes ago, Nuttall is lost said:

How do yo correctly pronounce his name?  I always thought it was Jon Dahl (as in Roald Dahl) Tomasson.

Sky seem to pronounce him Jon Dale Tomasson

I think there was a video when he was appointed where he said that it is pronounced "Yon Dale" IIRC.

[chaddyrovers]

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Just to clarify, Broughton coming out and explaining his reasoning doesn't invalidate or change my opinion. We have essentially paid 10 million to loan a goalscorer in a "transitional" season.

No club offered us a bid near our valuation, and you don't sell your key and best player on the cheap like you would have done. Rovers have told you we wouldn't sell him on the cheap. I don't know why you want to keep going over and over this like a broken record. 

I have mention transitional season as that my opinion. Have Rovers? 

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

But going onto Tyler Morton, why loan him if it is a transitional season? The idea of a transitional season at Championship level especially with the reliance on loans throughout the league and the high player turnover is foolish anyway and its just regular management speak.

Yet again Gregg Broughton explained Rovers thinking about why signing Tyler Morton on loan instead signing permanent signing so I don't know why you asking that. 

Already answered the transitional point above. 

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Also, you was expecting 10 changes to the playing staff? You spent all summer repeating that we only needed 6.

changes to the players from last season first team squad are, 

Callum Brittain, Hayden Carter, Ash Phillips, Dominic Hyam, Clinton Mola, Tyler Morton, Sam Szmodics, George Hirst, Jack Vale, Adam Wharton. 

[oldjamfan1]

1 hour ago, Nuttall is lost said:

How do yo correctly pronounce his name?  I always thought it was Jon Dahl (as in Roald Dahl) Tomasson.

Sky seem to pronounce him Jon Dale Tomasson

I believe it is pronounced Joan Dale

[eire3382]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

If this season is just a transitional season then why are we making any short term focused decisons, such as keeping Brereton and loaning players in?

There has to be positive evidence that the transition is ongoing to warrant that second year. I personally think the target should be to beat 8th but there would be scope for keeping Tomasson potentially even with a lower finish than that if there was a suggestion on the pitch that a plan was coming together. It shouldnt just be a write off that this season is for adjustment because we need to be able to believe that a plan is coming together.

There were no acceptable bids for BBD end of. Let’s see what happens in January. Loans are with options to buy. All reasonable to me.

[tomphil]

Have we ended up playing this way to accommodate the likes of Morton and maybe protecting Ayala;s lack of pace ?

I really hope not that would be such a Mowbray thing to do and we do still retain half his coaching staff who must have some kind of input.

[roversfan99]

36 minutes ago, eire3382 said:

There were no acceptable bids for BBD end of. Let’s see what happens in January. Loans are with options to buy. All reasonable to me.

Its not as simple as saying "end of."  If the focus is on years 2 and 3 of Tomasson's reign, which as I have explained previously is illogical considering the nature of the Championship, then I didn't feel as if the choice to essentially loan Brereton for close to if not an 8 figure fee for that transitional season was not aligned with that thinking. Nor were loan deals in particular the one with no option to buy in Morton's case.

I get that we would have liked more for Brereton ideally of course but we still turned down a hell of a lot of money (and for those who turn to it at every corner, a lot of FFP room to manouevre) for him to stay for one further season.

52 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

No club offered us a bid near our valuation, and you don't sell your key and best player on the cheap like you would have done. Rovers have told you we wouldn't sell him on the cheap. I don't know why you want to keep going over and over this like a broken record. 

I have mention transitional season as that my opinion. Have Rovers? 

Yet again Gregg Broughton explained Rovers thinking about why signing Tyler Morton on loan instead signing permanent signing so I don't know why you asking that. 

Already answered the transitional point above. 

changes to the players from last season first team squad are, 

Callum Brittain, Hayden Carter, Ash Phillips, Dominic Hyam, Clinton Mola, Tyler Morton, Sam Szmodics, George Hirst, Jack Vale, Adam Wharton. 

He explained his thinking on Morton but I didn't agree with the decision before or after he said it to only loan in a kid in midfield, that isn't IMO what we needed and he has yet to impress.

You seem to have fallen into the trap again of thinking that if someone at the club says the reason behind a decision or decisions made, then they must be the correct ones based on that reasoning.

[Miller11]

Totally agree with @roversfan99 on Morton. The only way he should be playing is if he is good enough to make the difference between us finishing top 6 or not… and he isn’t.

We would absolutely be better off trying to get Buckley to play himself back into form, or to get Adam Wharton integrated quicker. It would also make more sense playing Jake Garrett who is the same age as him. As mentioned, it’s particularly nonsensical to pick Morton in what is being described as a season of transition.

It’s still early days for JDT, but you can tell he’s starting to settle into it now. He’s got his favourites (Hyam, Pickering, Travis, Hedges and Brereton) who will play every game, and he’s clearly not a fan of others. The big concern is he seems absolutely married to this idea of pissing about with it at the back, and this “philosophy” being more important than results. He needs to address this pretty quickly, whether he’ll persist and hope things click or change his approach remains to be seen. 

The Burnley game will be something of a watershed. He could earn himself a lot of goodwill, but a bad result will fester all throughout the stupid World Cup break. That could be the point at where patience really starts to wear thin amongst the fanbase.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Miller11

[roversfan99]

7 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

Totally agree with @roversfan99 on Morton. The only way he should be playing is if he is good enough to make the difference between us finishing top 6 or not… and he isn’t.

We would absolutely be better off trying to get Buckley to play himself back into form, or to get Adam Wharton integrated quicker. It would also make more sense playing Jake Garrett who is the same age as him. As mentioned, it’s particularly nonsensical to pick Morton in what is being described as a season of transition.

It’s still early days for JDT, but you can tell he’s starting to settle into it now. He’s got his favourites (Hyam, Pickering, Travis, Hedges and Brereton) who will play every game, and he’s clearly not a fan of others. The big concern is he seems absolutely married to this idea of pissing about with it at the back with it being more important than results. He needs to address this pretty quickly, whether he’ll persist and hope things click or change his philosophy remains to be seen. 

The Burnley game will be something of a watershed. He could earn himself a lot of goodwill, but a bad result will fester all throughout the stupid World Cup break. That could be the point at where patience really starts to wear thin amongst the fanbase.

I am quite open minded towards loans in general as I am totally against the idea of writing seasons off as transitional. If a loanee is better than one of our own players then he should play. That being said, we were particularly in need of experience in midfield I felt and I dont rate him from when he has played to be honest.

[AllRoverAsia]

17 hours ago, Hasta said:

Not necessarily because in the 4 minutes that were left I wouldnt have put it past us shipping at the other end, as my examples above and several others from recent history highlight.

If the ref had literally blown the whistle after the goalkeeper kicked it then I would say yes. But he didnt.

 

I do accept your rationale as a valid argument.

I'll stick with what did happen.

[AllRoverAsia]

8 hours ago, Nuttall is lost said:

How do yo correctly pronounce his name?  I always thought it was Jon Dahl (as in Roald Dahl) Tomasson.

Sky seem to pronounce him Jon Dale Tomasson

 

[tonyoz]

19 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Taking up your new job analysis - this new style demands some watchmakers and all we have are blacksmiths.  How long do you think it’d take to train the blacksmiths to be watchmakers, and vice versa. Apologies to any old blacksmiths out there.

Ayala is one hell of a blacksmith at this level but this system is making him look like the village idiot.

[JamieUK]

10 hours ago, Nuttall is lost said:

How do yo correctly pronounce his name?  I always thought it was Jon Dahl (as in Roald Dahl) Tomasson.

Sky seem to pronounce him Jon Dale Tomasson

Gone Stale Tomasson 👍

[Giant]

Give the guy a chance, the current criticism of JDT is ridiculous. I would much rather see a gradual and solid development of the club than the hiring and firing mantra adopted by so many clubs these days. Comparing him after 12 games to Dalglish, who had millions to spend to improve the team, is pathetic, and taking the Mickey out of the pronunciation of his name is childish to say the least. Yes, we are all frustrated by the inconsistent results, but please be patient and let’s see where Mr. Tomasson can take us.

[Mattyblue]

The club hierarchy will be patient, the match going fans will be patient.

As time goes on won’t that be what matters over a dozen or so critical folk on a football message board (something that will always happen anyway as these forums are renowned for being far more reactionary)?

Edited October 7, 2022 by Mattyblue

[AllRoverAsia]

I read somewhere on here that the WC break is 'critical' to allow JDT to coach the players in his systems and tactics, or words to that effect. Critical being the word used 

I think 'fortunate' may be more accurate and a shout of thanks to FIFA corruption in making it possible plus the Qatar climate.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

39 minutes ago, Giant said:

Give the guy a chance, the current criticism of JDT is ridiculous. I would much rather see a gradual and solid development of the club than the hiring and firing mantra adopted by so many clubs these days. Comparing him after 12 games to Dalglish, who had millions to spend to improve the team, is pathetic, and taking the Mickey out of the pronunciation of his name is childish to say the least. Yes, we are all frustrated by the inconsistent results, but please be patient and let’s see where Mr. Tomasson can take us.

I’m talking about before Dalglish spent the millions, when we were still in Div 2. When he first arrived at the club and he was working mainly with what was already there with the addition of Wrighty and more importantly Cowans . Cowans didn’t cost millions but what a difference he made, just what we’re short of now. The difference in play was like night and day. It didn’t take him a season or two either, more like a month or two. We were going on a real journey then.

Edited October 7, 2022 by Tyrone Shoelaces