Jon Dahl Tomasson - Officially No Longer Our Head Coach

[Butty]

5 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Rovers give time and patience to managers/head coaches. 

wrong there, is a post asking for him to go. https://www.brfcs.com/forums/topic/36353-v-cardiff-city-a-04102022/?do=findComment&comment=2380279

worry and concern about our head coach who has us 7th in the league tonight? I thought we would be mid table at best, at this stage of the season, given the new footballing structure and the number of changes to the backroom staff and playing staff

Based on my opinion and how I think the rest of the season will go for 

I think he always wanted since he first came in. I think he wants 3 or 4 weeks on constantly working on it. The World cup break gives us this

The January transfer window will help as well, we’re fine at centre back and right back and obviously goal keeper, Hedges and Diaz on the wings is also fine. The rest of the team could easily be improved, another centre mid, left back and striker would do the trick for me 👍🏻

[rigger]

15 minutes ago, Butty said:

The January transfer window will help as well, we’re fine at centre back and right back and obviously goal keeper, Hedges and Diaz on the wings is also fine. The rest of the team could easily be improved, another centre mid, left back and striker would do the trick for me 👍🏻

Are we going to sign a better central midfielder than Adam Wharton, I think not. So I would target a good left-back and a striker  

[roversfan99]

23 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Rovers give time and patience to managers/head coaches. 

wrong there, is a post asking for him to go. https://www.brfcs.com/forums/topic/36353-v-cardiff-city-a-04102022/?do=findComment&comment=2380279

worry and concern about our head coach who has us 7th in the league tonight? I thought we would be mid table at best, at this stage of the season, given the new footballing structure and the number of changes to the backroom staff and playing staff

Based on my opinion and how I think the rest of the season will go for 

I think he always wanted since he first came in. I think he wants 3 or 4 weeks on constantly working on it. The World cup break gives us this

Give time and patience 😂 is that why Kean stayed during years of protesting and a relegation? Is that why Mowbray stayed for so long after showing clear signs of stagnation yet with no communication on the future?

You don't seem to be willing to hold any critical faculty in regards with what your opinion of the intended tactical change. Do you think it suits us to play the ball out slowly from the back? The regularly used lines are "high press" and "fluid front 4" but there have been only fleeting examples of either whereas the passing it out from the back is a clear staple of his plan. Do you not question at all whether for example that our squad suits playing it out from the back? Do you not think when we do bore everyone rigid trying it, maybe a compromise will need to be struck in regards to passing it out? In your head, it just seems to be a case of it definitely will all come together over time.

[Oldgregg86]

1 hour ago, Blue blood said:

I'm still backing JDT and here are my reasons why:

 

1) What he inherited.

Where to start? A team on a half season relegation form run, a team with 5 years of TM's culture of apathy behind it. A squad shorn of some key players from last season including the player of the year and captain, with a raft of other squad losses too. A squad of limited experience. It was a pretty rubbish situation JDT inherited. The signings of the previous transfer window to his arrival were gash and have added very little. And I don't think it was his pre season plans and he arrived late. Hardly ideal circumstances, especially the neglect of the squad coming home to roost. 

 

2) It takes time

I recall Hughes first half season being pretty woeful. Likewise Souness in his end of season before his first full season. Even TMs successful league 1 campaign took a while to get going. Admittedly not like for like as the first 2 examples didn't have a transfer window but unsure if either had quite as hard a situation as the one inherited. Either way I think the time principle still holds true in part.

 

3) JDT has to learn what doesn't work 

Same as Hughes had to learn Emerton wasn't a left winger and Amoruso wasn't a centre back for himself (although we all knew it) JDT has to have given everyone a clean slate and learn for himself what works and doesn't work. Hopefully he's a quick learner but in fairness the clean slate principle does mean that things we know from seeing us the last few seasons, will take a bit of time for JDT to uncover. We have to remember JDT hasn't seen said issues and errors over the long period of time we have. That said the penny should be beginning to drop and some trials have by now had a fair crack of the whip. (Imo some things need more than a game to assess whether they can work or not, one game can be misleading.) 

 

4) Our position

Despite all the worries and the poor form we still have a solid amount of points and are top 10. That's not a bad position to be in when things aren't quite working and a decent base to start from. We are picking up some wins and we aren't in danger of relegation so it's not a bad base to be building from before it clicks. If we were struggling for points the situation would be more worrying and pressing. 

 

5)He's not TM

Entirely subjective and not a good rational reason but not being that odious, lying self-serving former manager is a big plus that endears him to me. Makes me more willing to give him a bit of time. 

 

I should add there are some concerns. The main 2 for me is when we lose we seem to get hammered which suggests a fragility to the team which perhaps goes beyond the lost games. Whether it's an inability to sort things out or adjust or mental fragility it could be quite worrying. Hopefully it is "just" part of the learning process and goes away but I can see how it can be interpreted (and may be) a worrying trend. Hopefully another window for a few more options and a bit longer working with the squad and this will go away. Appreciate there aren't any guarantees on that mind!

Second big concern is around our transfers. The lad from Peterborough sounded exactly what we wanted and yet hasn't worked out, which is disappointing. If those signings don't come off, then you do wonder what will. Again, hopefully, as JDT imprints his style and gets his squad his form will improve. The one that really worried me is Hirst as he didn't sound like a striker good enough to lead the line, nor is he appearing like it. If he is the type we are aiming at we have some issues. Hopefully (again) with time we can use JDTs Scandinavian contacts and get better quality and this was a B list player. 

 

I'm hoping the concerns are ironed out and whilst there's no certainty I this will happen, I do think that the reasons outlined means that JDT should be given time to address them and why it's not all doom and gloom. 

I’m 101% in agreement with this

[tomphil]

I like JDT i think he has something about him and i want him to do well, he isn't doing badly just ok and that will have to do for now.  

However i am disappointed he seems to be going over old ground and there isn't much difference on the pitch as time goes on between him and Mowbray. I was really hoping for fresh ideas and more drive and verve with more of a winning mentality especially after all the bold talk.

So i understand the concern and frustration, yes it's still early days but it's a familiar pattern with lopsided tactics and players individual talents being overlooked in the pursuit of a dead end style.

Never mind, when we beat Burnley he'll be the dogs whatsits !

[AllRoverAsia]

Richard Sharpe "Tomasson believes a focus on ball retention is needed to create value in the squad"

So, nevermind the blatant fact that we are simply not good enough to do it and they think that journeyman can be recruited from L1 and FFS the Scottish leagues to succeed at it in the Championship.

Looks like a direct quote from a previous Mowbray play book,must have been left in the manager's office by the previous incumbent.

Surely the objective of any style or tactics is to win games, or am I missing something.

Sharpe also comes out with the classic penalty miss defence of it wasn't the miss that cost us the game. Well Richard have a think about that.

I know there are many other factors so don't waste time saying that. The reality is that the late penalty miss cost us a point. End of.

Sharpe does make valid argument as to why Hirst too it, ignoring the fact that only one of Hirsts previous successes had been in senior League football and just maybe all of Dacks were.

I will just never be a Corporate toady or toe the Party line, I've tried, it's just not in my DNA.

Edited October 6, 2022 by AllRoverAsia

[Mattyblue]

Yeah that was kind of my point, Chaddy, in reply to yours that was implying that they are still in the habit of sacking them!

Edited October 6, 2022 by Mattyblue

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

3 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Richard Sharpe "Tomasson believes a focus on ball retention is needed to create value in the squad"

So, nevermind the blatant fact that we are simply not good enough to do it and they think that journeyman can be recruited from L1 and FFS the Scottish leagues to succeed at it in the Championship.

Looks like a direct quote from a previous Mowbray play book,must have been left in the manager's office by the previous incumbent.

Surely the objective of any style or tactics is to win games, or am I missing something.

Sharpe also comes out with the classic penalty miss defence of it wasn't the miss that cost us the game. Well Richard have a think about that.

I know there are many other factors so don't waste time saying that. The reality is that the late penalty miss cost us a point. End of.

Sharpe does make valid argument as to why Hirst too it, ignoring the fact that only one of Hirsts previous successes had been in senior League football and just maybe all of Dacks were.

I will just never be a Corporate toady or toe the Party line, I've tried, it's just not in my DNA.

It was an awful penalty, Southgatesque, everything was wrong about the way he took it. He telegraphed where it was going, it was at a saveable height without a great deal of power. How not to take a penalty.  I could have saved it. 
 

What’s this “ create value in the squad “ ? I thought the idea was to win games.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Mattyblue]

Why does passing the ball around aimlessly ‘create value’?

[Tugayisgod]

11 hours ago, Butty said:

The January transfer window will help as well, we’re fine at centre back and right back and obviously goal keeper, Hedges and Diaz on the wings is also fine. The rest of the team could easily be improved, another centre mid, left back and striker would do the trick for me 👍🏻

According to GB in todays Telegraph they are focusing on the Summer window and don’t expect to do much if any business in January unless circumstances change with outgoings

[G Somerset Rover]

44 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

What’s this “ create value in the squad “ ? I thought the idea was to win games.

It beggars belief. I said it the other night, but results and performances are secondary at Rovers, and that quote proves it for me.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Gavlar Somerset Rover!

[tomphil]

The owners obviously aren't bothered and whilst we blame managers it's probably them or their minions behind the scenes pushing these journey or project narratives. 

It's just bullshit covering over for the lack or any real desire to get to the Prem instead it's a plod.  Happy to lose a certain amount every year but don't want it to get too much and affect other businesses.  Meanwhile just let it carry on quietly whilst causing the least amount of bother in India and just play with it now and again.

All the while some people in the middle running it for the owners are on a very nice little number.

[bazza]

I'm not writing JDT off. I'm just questioning his style of play, why he still insists on it. When will he decide it doesn't work and will let the players express themselves more?

He needs to sit down and give it serious thought.

[Irish_Rover]

Similar to yourself Bazza, I'm not writing the team of GB and JDT off yet at all.
On the front of it they have done correct things by spending money on defenders, and good ones aswell. We'll have Hyam and Brittain with us for a few years so at least we won't be trying to fix the problem with the loan market sticky plaster each year.

So with those additions and with Ayala and Wharton we are solid at the back, but then JDT is hamstringing them by asking them to play short one touch passes around the back line or sometimes in the box itself. Something that they are totally not suited to be doing. Fair enough if in Jan or next Summer he wants to bring in a Tosin-style centre back that is extremely comfortable on the ball but its killing us at the moment.

If they are intent on playing this way now, we need Adam Wharton in there. From the briefest of glimpses that I have seen of him against Blackpool he was the perfect foil for a defender that might be a bit jittery on the ball. He was always finding space, and more importantly finding the angle to give an easy out ball for the defence.
Blackpool from what I remember did try the high press against us aswell but as he was there looking for the ball from the defence we were able to break through that press more often than not which I'm pretty sure resulted in most of our chances

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Lots of the time if you’re receiving the ball from the back four you’ve got your back to the opposition. Being able to turn away from trouble as you receive the ball is a skill you’re born with. Back in my youth Simon Barker was the one who was brilliant at it and he was very rarely caught in possession, always turned away from his marker and in to space.

[chaddyrovers]

13 hours ago, Butty said:

The January transfer window will help as well, we’re fine at centre back and right back and obviously goal keeper, Hedges and Diaz on the wings is also fine. The rest of the team could easily be improved, another centre mid, left back and striker would do the trick for me 👍🏻

I think we will make one signing which I think might be replacement for BBD. Probably from overseas and under the age of 21 given his comments in recent interviews

1 hour ago, Tugayisgod said:

According to GB in todays Telegraph they are focusing on the Summer window and don’t expect to do much if any business in January unless circumstances change with outgoings

He has said this in the BBC Lancs interview that they posted this week. 

5 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Richard Sharpe "Tomasson believes a focus on ball retention is needed to create value in the squad"

where has Rich Sharpe said this? 

[Sparks Rover]

23 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Lots of the time if you’re receiving the ball from the back four you’ve got your back to the opposition. 

Any midfielder of mine who isn't on the half turn when receiving from his defenders is hooked very quickly....like you say, Barker had that body position where he could see all angles, a very good midfield player....Nice feet too in tight spaces....

 

[jim mk2]

1 hour ago, Tugayisgod said:

According to GB in todays Telegraph they are focusing on the Summer window and don’t expect to do much if any business in January unless circumstances change with outgoings

Oh lordy, it's the long term "project" plan - always jam tomorrow, except the jam never arrives. Meanwhile they rake in the cash while fans get disillusioned at another Mowbray-style "journey" and slowly drift away

Tomasson obviously wants to play a certain way but he's got to be more pragmatic and learn quickly that the Championship isn't European football - it's a long, relentless battle and a passing game with sub-standard players just isn't going to work.

Even Mowbray saw the light eventually and Tomasson needs to wake up

[jim mk2]

5 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Any midfielder of mine who isn't on the half turn when receiving from his defenders is hooked very quickly....like you say, Barker had that body position where he could see all angles, a very good midfield player....Nice feet too in tight spaces....

Buckley can do it when he's on form and in the mood. His game has regressed though over the past 12 months

[frosty]

Watching the Champions League highlights this week, numerous teams either got caught out and conceded or almost caught out when messing around with it at the back. You're more likely to be punished at that level, but you're also more likely to actually have the players to be able to build a move from the back - we therefore haven't got much hope with Ayala turning like an oil tanker or the ball bouncing off Travis (nothing against them two, Ayala in particular is excellent at defending, but they're being asked to be something they're not).

I remember shaking my head in disbelief at Swansea doing it at Ewood on the opening day of last season. Feel like that's us now. We haven't been properly punished yet due to the lack of quality in the opposition and some good last-ditch defending, but it'll seriously cost us at some point. And even if we aren't punished directly, it's making us seriously blunt going forward as we aren't getting up the pitch - it wasn't a surprise to see how few touches we had in the opposition box on Tuesday, and it feels like we just don't create much overall.

Hope you can fix it JDT. I'd start by getting our best players on the pitch, so it'd be Dack and Adam Wharton in on Saturday.

[chaddyrovers]

12 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Give time and patience 😂 is that why Kean stayed during years of protesting and a relegation?

The club was very different when that person was at the club back in 2011/12.

12 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Is that why Mowbray stayed for so long after showing clear signs of stagnation yet with no communication on the future?

Mowbray was told by the owners and Waggott his future would be decided after the season. Mowbray thought he deserved a new contract after half a season of doing well last season. Sadly the other half we nosedived, and he was mainly responsible for our failing to even secure a playoff place and his signings in January was awful overall and he should have used the money he had available instead of rubbish crap excuses again. 

The club is well managed now and we now have new footballing management structure which is working well with Gregg Broughton and Jon Dahl Tomasson

12 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

You don't seem to be willing to hold any critical faculty in regards with what your opinion of the intended tactical change. Do you think it suits us to play the ball out slowly from the back? The regularly used lines are "high press" and "fluid front 4" but there have been only fleeting examples of either whereas the passing it out from the back is a clear staple of his plan. Do you not question at all whether for example that our squad suits playing it out from the back? Do you not think when we do bore everyone rigid trying it, maybe a compromise will need to be struck in regards to passing it out? In your head, it just seems to be a case of it definitely will all come together over time.

You asked me the similar question about JDT's tactics and style of play yesterday which I gave you a direct answer to. Why keep asking me the same questions which is already answered. 

It's a new style of play and its takes time for the players to learn it and develop with it. Just like when you start a new job, it takes us time to understand the job, learn the new job and what you have to do, and develop and improve in that job. 

On passing it out and a compromise is needed? If the short pass isn't on in a pass or two time, then maybe we should go long or look for BBD or Hedges, but I would also say we need to look for Brittain more who was space alot of the time on Tuesday which we didn't use him enough especially in an attacking sense 

[rigger]

Short or long, even a dink into midfield. But we have to mix it up, playing the same every time makes it easy for the opposition to take up their starting positions.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

36 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Any midfielder of mine who isn't on the half turn when receiving from his defenders is hooked very quickly....like you say, Barker had that body position where he could see all angles, a very good midfield player....Nice feet too in tight spaces....

 

Yeah, if Barker had have been a bit quicker he would have gone right to the top. He didn’t do too badly as it is.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

24 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

The club was very different when that person was at the club back in 2011/12.

Mowbray was told by the owners and Waggott his future would be decided after the season. Mowbray thought he deserved a new contract after half a season of doing well last season. Sadly the other half we nosedived, and he was mainly responsible for our failing to even secure a playoff place and his signings in January was awful overall and he should have used the money he had available instead of rubbish crap excuses again. 

The club is well managed now and we now have new footballing management structure which is working well with Gregg Broughton and Jon Dahl Tomasson

You asked me the similar question about JDT's tactics and style of play yesterday which I gave you a direct answer to. Why keep asking me the same questions which is already answered. 

It's a new style of play and its takes time for the players to learn it and develop with it. Just like when you start a new job, it takes us time to understand the job, learn the new job and what you have to do, and develop and improve in that job. 

On passing it out and a compromise is needed? If the short pass isn't on in a pass or two time, then maybe we should go long or look for BBD or Hedges, but I would also say we need to look for Brittain more who was space alot of the time on Tuesday which we didn't use him enough especially in an attacking sense 

Taking up your new job analysis - this new style demands some watchmakers and all we have are blacksmiths.  How long do you think it’d take to train the blacksmiths to be watchmakers, and vice versa. Apologies to any old blacksmiths out there.

[Hasta]

6 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

I know there are many other factors so don't waste time saying that. The reality is that the late penalty miss cost us a point. End of.

Therefore Brad Friedel once won us a point at Charlton. And Charlie Mulgrew won us three points at Leeds.

We ended up losing both of those games.