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Just now, rigger said:

Nyambe does provide an attacking threat. What he doesn’t provide is end product. He needs to Practice crossing from 30yards across the six yard box for our two strikers to attack.

that would be great idea but for one big problem,one striker is stuck out wide and the other is mincing about playing "false no 9" which i still don`t know what it means,poor ryan thunders down the wing whenever he can to find gallagher looking perplexed and the other striker somewhere other than the penalty area,though i admit his crossing needs work

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Posted (edited)

You reckon Joe? Sure I’ve been reading posts saying Wharton isn’t good enough/not going to make it/what does L2 prove etc -  you being one of those posters. And as I said, there’s merit in that view, so I certainly don’t see you as ‘biased’.

Who’s said the above (I.e. actually writing off) about JRC?

Edited by Mattyblue

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Just now, simongarnerisgod said:

that would be great idea but for one big problem,one striker is stuck out wide and the other is mincing about playing "false no 9" which i still don`t know what it means,poor ryan thunders down the wing whenever he can to find gallagher looking perplexed and the other striker somewhere other than the penalty area,though i admit his crossing needs work

Correct,that is why our two strikers need to be played as strikers and nothing else.

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3 hours ago, RoverCanada said:

Any chance we still have a sell-on attached to Duffy? Sounds like Brighton will be looking to sell him.

I'd assume King will be leaving Bournemouth and I think it was confirmed we have a sell-on clause for him.

Add in further payment from Brentford for Raya if they get promoted (I think I saw the LT mention that recently), and that could be a decent amount incoming for previously sold players...

While I'm at it on sell-ons, going by the terms of the tribunal decision, just noticed we would've gotten 20% of the profit on Mahoney's transfers to Millwall last summer, so £135,000 (if the reported £1.1m fee is to be believed). Hurray!

Would all be handy to cover the financial hole of this season but it's still going some to expect a good budget next season imo.

You're a finance whizz, how do you think they are covering it ?

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50 minutes ago, JoeH said:

When compared with posters opinions on Scott Wharton, people are 100% biased, and I can't fathom the reason for why. I am completely open to a different view, I am not open to randomly opposing and confusing views about players with similar experiences in our first team.

So you're open to a different view, but because these ones are too different to yours, the only possible explanation is that people are definitely completely biased, even though you have no idea on what grounds this would be the case?

Come on Joe. Just accept some people don't see it your way and you'll stop being so puzzled.

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1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Yes I agree. I played in every position on the pitch at some point. Even one game in goal - and one game as the ref.  The less said about my refereeing the better. Playing briefly as a centre forward taught what service suited strikers best and how hard it was to play with your back to goal.

I remember going for a town team trial once and we all lined up out in the pitch. Me and another lad both lined up in the left back spot, but there was a gap in the right centre half position. The coach organising the trial said to me  - You, move across to the right, you're playing centre half today ". When I said I'd never really played there much  he replied " Get over, a good player can play anywhere ".

Lack of a cb is a recurring theme for town team trials.  I got shunted from CF to play there.  Had a shocker 🤣

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1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

Miller - Example of who’s said ‘they’re shit’ and who’s ‘written off’ JRC or Buckley. Would be quite ridiculous, but I don’t recall ever reading it, merely stuff like Buckley needs to ‘bulk up’ ‘toughen up’ etc and JRC hasn’t blown anyone away so far, but with the caveat he’s been slotted in in various positions.  

Whilst Nyambe, Travis and Lenihan are seen as pivotal men.

Which is all fair enough and obviously isn’t knocking our vital Academy one iota.

(Oh and if we are talking about ‘writing off’, Joe’s comments about Wharton are probably closer to doing that than anything I’ve read about Buckley or JRC, which seems unfair for a lad that’s paid his dues on loan and done well, though that’s still an opinion with some merit for a lad who’s never played out of L1/L2 and is 22 pushing 23. Never black and white, is it...)

Absolutely not black and white!
 

Not specifically talking about Rankin-Costello, more generally that our youth players seem to quickly fall into one of two categories in the eyes of fans.

Nyambe was routinely slated before this season (Chaddy still wants him replacing). As someone touched on earlier Lenihan gets a lot of leeway. I’ve heard Buckley get far more vocal criticism in Ewood than Brereton (who if he’d have come through the academy would have rightly been at Barrow this season). I’ve seen Buckley make several peoples ‘deadwood’ lists on here and elsewhere too.

Wilcox v Duff, Lowe v Travis, Nyambe v Lenihan, Hill v Hanley... extreme examples, but some were heralded as saviours immediately, while others were deemed not good enough by a large section of the fanbase pretty much as soon as they’d kicked a ball.

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Posted (edited)

Brereton gets slaughtered by most fans I speak to, but to the great credit of the Ewood crowd they still really get behind him when he’s on the pitch. SG also gets a load of grief.

I’ve not heard a single person write off Buckley either on here or at Ewood - how many have written Brereton off?

Fans opinion will always differ, don’t disagree, but to say it’s ‘bias’ or ‘an agenda’ if someone has a differing opinion on JRC’s form so far is non sensical.


p.s, Hill? Bloody hell! How far back we going :lol:

Edited by Mattyblue

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29 minutes ago, JoeH said:

The whole point is that people should be as harsh on Wharton as they are on JRC. Simple really. I don't think both players are being judged in the same parameters and I find it confusing. 

I rate Costello too, but if you're looking for explanations, it's probably a lot to do with we haven't seen Wharton for more than a couple of seasons, only heard he is doing well. Meanwhile we have seen JRC, recently, and for some (not me) he hasn't impressed. Basically Wharton represents the slightly unknown youth player who has played well at the level he has been sent to (it's a low level but that's the level hes been sent to) and JRC represents the 'known' quantity youth player.

You can rest assured that if he was a bit naff in his first couple of games for us, the same people would stop pushing for Wharton's involvement.

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14 minutes ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

Lack of a cb is a recurring theme for town team trials.  I got shunted from CF to play there.  Had a shocker 🤣

And yet I was a (pretty decent) CB and never got to go to town team trials. *shrug*

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22 minutes ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

Lack of a cb is a recurring theme for town team trials.  I got shunted from CF to play there.  Had a shocker 🤣

Not a wing wizard then? 😁

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Posted (edited)

Same guy that said we had bid for Jordan Jones..

20200802_174807.jpg

Edited by Swanson

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Swanson said:

Same guy that said we had bid for Jordan Jones..

 

Whilst I'm not at all convinced by the look of this fella's twitter account when it comes to reliability, this would be a very good signing I think. Good keeper, good age. Stood out in a struggling side last year. 

Edited by Admiral Nelsen

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If we've bid for Dillon Phillips that's good news, although with the amount of clubs interested/bidding, I imagine that'll be a "We tried for Phillips but couldn't get him here" type come the inevitable fans forum in a few months time.

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55 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

I rate Costello too, but if you're looking for explanations, it's probably a lot to do with we haven't seen Wharton for more than a couple of seasons, only heard he is doing well. Meanwhile we have seen JRC, recently, and for some (not me) he hasn't impressed. Basically Wharton represents the slightly unknown youth player who has played well at the level he has been sent to (it's a low level but that's the level hes been sent to) and JRC represents the 'known' quantity youth player.

You can rest assured that if he was a bit naff in his first couple of games for us, the same people would stop pushing for Wharton's involvement.

Absolutely - as one of the people who has been pushing for Wharton to be involved with the first team next season, I'm all for him being moved on in January if he's clearly not up to snuff.

It's a meritocracy after all, I just don't understand why he wouldn't be given a go considering his decent CV - it's a cloggers league, a young player who has done well in League Two should be viewed with a mild sense of excitement. 

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1 hour ago, JoeH said:

The whole point is that people should be as harsh on Wharton as they are on JRC. Simple really. I don't think both players are being judged in the same parameters and I find it confusing. 

I think most people are just saying that Wharton should be given a chance to see what he can do before he's written off. At that stage people can give a more measured view of him in the context of our squad. 

JRC has already been afforded that chance, albeit playing out of position for the most part. The contrasting views you're seeing is understandable given he's been played out of position, he's played in a team that's underperformed at the end of the season and not everyone has seen him regularly for the U23s, so potentially don't know what he's about.

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1 hour ago, rigger said:

Nyambe does provide an attacking threat. What he doesn’t provide is end product. He needs to Practice crossing from 30yards across the six yard box for our two strikers to attack.

What he needs is people in the box!

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4 hours ago, JoeH said:

It's not that I believe @roversfan99 and other posters are being incredibly over the top in their criticisms of Joe Rankin-Costello, it's that I feel certain youth players get a harder time than others and I don't really get it. I think you're right that it can't be about home grown status, as John Buckley is even more so scrutinised and he has been at the club since a very young age. 

I don't know whether its positional really. Travis and Wharton are in defensive positions where its much harder to quantify the ability they are brining to the side, and is quite easy to under or over state their abilities. With attacking based players, people judge them on their goals and assists way too heavily and I feel that maybe there is a pressure there.

The original criticism against Rankin-Costello is that he doesn't have the attacking potency, but that is an unsubstantiated claim, as he IS an attacking player. 100% I believe he has been victim to playing out of position.

You see here, this kind of comment backs up my thoughts on this. Defensive players are judged on all sorts of things, their running, positioning, tracking back, interceptions, finding a pass.

With attacking players its, how many goals does he have? We never turn around and say okay let's judge Defender A solely on how many we've conceded as a team, I wish that our attacking youth players could be judged on ALL of their playing merits just like certain others.

I don't think anyone has been particularly harsh on JRC, I just think people are lenient with others and seem to have an unexplainable bias that I can't quite fathom.

I think you are looking for an agenda or bias that isnt there to correlate your own personal opinions.

If anything, as a regular goer of the Under 23 games, maybe you have a bit more of soft spot towards Rankin Costello who ultimately has been playing kids football whilst Wharton has been playing League 2 football, which you are dismissive of.

He is an attacking player but he hasnt shown that for the first team, with mitigating circumstances. Just trying to figure him out, not the paciest, crossing has been a bit wayward, on the ball he is ok. Travis came into the first team and stood out straight away. Carter and Magloire looked a bit off, especially the former. Rankin Costello has been in the middle, even considering he is playing out of position, he has not stood out like a sore thumb as a weakness either.

Also, for the third goal v Reading he was sliding all over the place diving in, but I just wrote that off owed to playing out of position. If a senior full back had done that, it would have been correctly picked apart as was the mistake earlier by Travis.

3 hours ago, Miller11 said:

It’s really disheartening to see so many fans writing off so many of our academy products, and as @JoeH picked up on its also bizarre in its inconsistency. They seem to be able to do no wrong, or they are shit in the eyes of many. They get it badly wrong at times too... the one homegrown player to win the league with us got crucified throughout the decade he played in the first team.

As a vocal detractor of the current regime, seeing a really talented crop of youngsters coming through is something I could really get behind, and really excites me. I’d love to see the likes of Buckley, Rankin-Costello and Vale become mainstays of our team, and I’d much rather them get ample game time to be given the opportunity to flourish.

I really hope we use all available finance to strengthen in the areas we really need to, ie. Goalkeeper, and not waste wages on loaning players who’ve come through from premier league teams with no hope of breaking in their first teams, or ageing pros who’s best days are long behind them. We have a lot of depth with these young lads. None of them are mugs, and they will only realise their potential by playing.

Who has written them off?

2 hours ago, JoeH said:

The whole point is that people should be as harsh on Wharton as they are on JRC. Simple really. I don't think both players are being judged in the same parameters and I find it confusing. 

How could they be as harsh on Wharton, hes not been at the club for years! Nothing to judge on really.

And who is being harsh on Rankin Costello? I dont think I have seen one person suggest that he isnt worth persevering with, or that he doesnt deserve another chance.

My personal opinion on Wharton is, very impressive feedback from the loan spells, of course question marks regarding the standard hes been at, but worth having as 3rd or 4th choice potentially, certainly over Carter who I thought looked quite a bit away at the moment and probably needs a loan spell similar.

My personal opinion on Rankin Costello is, has not really stood out much, but has played almost all of his football out of position in the first team. Again, like Wharton, wouldnt be in my starting 11 on the opening day next season I dont think, but adds an option in the wider roles.

 

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3 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Did you get in?

Not that season and not at centre half !  Being fair to the coach he was new to the area and he didn't know any of us properly. He had our star centre forward ( who signed for Hull on leaving school )  playing in centre midfield until somebody had word with him. Having said that he was a natural and he played centre midfield like he'd played there all his life. Then he discovered beer, fags and women and that was that ! 

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1 hour ago, Swanson said:

Same guy that said we had bid for Jordan Jones..

20200802_174807.jpg

You have to have had a great season if your a goalkeeper and won player of the season for a relegated team.

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1 hour ago, bluebruce said:

And yet I was a (pretty decent) CB and never got to go to town team trials. *shrug*

It used to all depend on who was put forward by individual schools PE teachers. To be honest I don't think a lot of kids fancied playing centre half at school.  All that heading ? The lad who actually played in town team I referred to really fancied himself as a midfield player and later on  played there but funnily enough he was nothing like as good as the player he was at centre half.

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2 hours ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

Lack of a cb is a recurring theme for town team trials.  I got shunted from CF to play there.  Had a shocker 🤣

I was a striker and they shunted me into left back in a 2 man defence!!! They never asked me back.

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3 hours ago, Ewood Ace said:

Academy players get a lot more leeway from fans on here that's for certain. If Williams had put in performances in like Carter did he would have been slaughtered. If Johnson had given the ball away like Travis did for one of Leeds and Reading's goals he'd have been hammered. If Bell had defended like JRC did at times he'd have taken plenty of flack.  As it was none of them got much stick at all on here.

The difference in expectations by fans of senior experienced pros and lads learning their trade on the job. Really there is nothing unusual or out of order about it.

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Fraserkirky said:

You have to have had a great season if your a goalkeeper and won player of the season for a relegated team.

Not REALLY related, but Charlton seem to have a  recent knack of having underrated keepers moving on to better teams:

Phillips, Rudd, Pope, Etheridge, Alnwick, Elliott, Randolph in the last decade alone.

I think Carson came from them too, joining Pope as an obvious highlight.

Edited by Mike E

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