Summer transfer window 2021.

[RevidgeBlue]

49 minutes ago, unsall said:

We didn’t have money back in the day but neither did a lot of others, we just never pushed on, always the selling club, never moaned just kept supporting them, well I did many others were like you.

Give over again.

I sponsored the match ball on numerous occasions in the 80's when we were GENUINELY short of cash and needed the money.

I did moan about lack of ambition back then as well, but back then we actually were hard up and still got a lot closer to achieving promotion than we have done in recent time with owners who have put North of £200m into the Club.

 

[Oldgregg86]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Its nothing to do with being depressing or optimistic, positive or negative or supporting through thick and thin. People are constantly criticising because it is on a messageboard and people praise or criticise when appropriate. Its impossible to put a positive spin for example of being in an unavoidable embargo due to negligence, to having such a thin squad or even keeping a manager who is underperforming and not being judged on results.

The issue is not to do with money or being wherever we are in the footballing pyramid. There is no desire from our owners to make the club the best it can be. The losses are massively inflated due to incompetence, on the pitch the product is poor yes but also the marketing and ticketing is piss poor, as is the management of playing assets, other clubs buy low, sell high, replace at a fraction of the cost and remain competitive, we dont.

What is there at the moment to be optimistic about, constructively? 

less queuing  for a half time pint 😉

Edited July 20, 2021 by Oldgregg86

[unsall]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Our embargo dragged on because we left it until the very last moment of that 3 month extension. Cardiff have done all of their business now, Luton have signed a number of players and Coventry have made signings too. Even when in the embargo, it seemingly didnt provoke any urgency.

You seem to be desperate (perhaps mischeviously) to make out that people are just moaning without reason simply because of where we are in the league system. You dont offer any reasons to be optimistic or take on the point that we are not being run anything like efficiently or effectively all stemming from negligence from our owners. 

Not desperate, just so depressing reading on here every day, don’t need to give any reasons on being optimistic it’s just how I support my club, that’s the CLUB, not the owners, manager or COE, we all support Rovers in different ways and I will stick to my way.

 

[47er]

4 hours ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

The owners may decide enough is enough and withdraw its annual support forcing a mass scaling back of the club, they dont necessarily have to sell, they could just let the club and its dwindling fan base slowly die.

You really think the rest of us aren't aware of that? They could be trying to teach the peasants a lesson for throwing snowballs at them for all I know.

It shouldn't be allowed to be this way---foreign owners treating a community asset like a plaything.

For them it means nothing, for us it means everything.

[unsall]

41 minutes ago, JHRover said:

This is the first mistake. The assumption that it costs £20 million a year to exist as we are. 

It doesn't. We are a basket case financially.

Yes we will always lose millions a year at this level without player sales to plug the gap. But the losses are substantially higher than they need to be purely through mismanagement and neglect.

For mid-table Championship Preston, Millwall, Luton, Barnsley all manage it spending a fraction of what we do. Why can't we do that and save £10 million a year?

Bring that figure down to less than £10 million a year. Be more streetwise with recruitment and sales rather than allowing contracts to run down as with Armstrong. Get competent people running the club. 

Problem isn't solved but it is a hell of a lot better than it is now.

How do you know we’ve let Armstrong’s contract run down, non of us are privy to contracts, we don’t know when he was offered a new one, and that goes for others, remember you saying Armstrong wasn’t worth what we paid for, was it 1.75 mil, last few years only Raya sold and replaced with a very competent replacement for peanuts, same with Nyambe, wonder how much we’re offering him, could be a decent offer but he might be asking silly money, so what we supposed to do just pay him what he wants, listen I know Venkys are hard work, but still prefer it than going through a Bolton and Wigan, I saw that someone on here would rather we go out the league if it meant getting rid of Venkys, now that is silly.

Obviously another Jack Walker would be the best thing to happen, but afraid they aren’t out there…

[RevidgeBlue]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

We went in embargo cos we filed the Club's accounts in line with the Government schedule dates not the EFL dates. 

Surely that's not a valid excuse.

As we're a member of the EFL, where their rules occasionally diverge from Companies House ones, surely we have to comply with both!!!!

How hard can it be?

[RevidgeBlue]

46 minutes ago, unsall said:

Not desperate, just so depressing reading on here every day, don’t need to give any reasons on being optimistic it’s just how I support my club, that’s the CLUB, not the owners, manager or COE, we all support Rovers in different ways and I will stick to my way.

 

Yes, but there's being optimistic with good reason, I.e. off the back of an excellent campaign last time round, or off the back of a brilliant transfer window or an inspired managerial appointment etc.

Then there's being on the deck of the Titanic after it's hit the iceberg and putting a brave face on things saying "only a scratch, we'll be in New York soon."

Would you mind sharing what it is that has happened over the last 11 months that gives you grounds for optimism for this season?

[Mike E]

8 hours ago, unsall said:

How do you know we’ve let Armstrong’s contract run down, non of us are privy to contracts, we don’t know when he was offered a new one, and that goes for others, remember you saying Armstrong wasn’t worth what we paid for, was it 1.75 mil, last few years only Raya sold and replaced with a very competent replacement for peanuts, same with Nyambe, wonder how much we’re offering him, could be a decent offer but he might be asking silly money, so what we supposed to do just pay him what he wants, listen I know Venkys are hard work, but still prefer it than going through a Bolton and Wigan, I saw that someone on here would rather we go out the league if it meant getting rid of Venkys, now that is silly.

Obviously another Jack Walker would be the best thing to happen, but afraid they aren’t out there…

Technically, he was replaced with the worst goalkeeper in living memory on loan from Brighton.

Edited July 21, 2021 by Mike E

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Our embargo dragged on because we left it until the very last moment of that 3 month extension. Cardiff have done all of their business now, Luton have signed a number of players and Coventry have made signings too. Even when in the embargo, it seemingly didnt provoke any urgency.

You are given a deadline of end of June so you have to filed them so what's the problem. They were filed on time. Did the EFL needs to put us in embargo? 

Who cares if Luton or Coventry have made signings? Any of then good quality who are better than we have? 

Good luck to Cardiff then if they are done. 

[chaddyrovers]

13 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Incorrect, he was replaced with the worst goalkeeper in living memory on loan from Brighton.

Long term replaced by Kaminski who is much better than Raya. 

Walton was last minute option 

[WacoRover]

I dreamt we were close to signing Curtis and/or Yates, and maybe get a loaner like Doyle. That’s not much to dream about, pretty ordinary actually, but I bet we won’t even get those guys.

It’s time for me to face the reality that we will be in a relegation battle this season.

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, unsall said:

Not desperate, just so depressing reading on here every day, don’t need to give any reasons on being optimistic it’s just how I support my club, that’s the CLUB, not the owners, manager or COE, we all support Rovers in different ways and I will stick to my way.

 

So basically you are coming onto a messageboard where people discuss different things, and your response to constructive criticisms eg an unavoidable transfer embargo, a paper thin squad, regression in the league table, an out of his depth manager etc is totally unconstructive, to merely "stop being depressing."

The superfan rhetoric is nonsensical, we all support the club hence why many are repulsed by having owners who dont give a shit, a CEO who hasnt got any grasp over the Rovers fanbase and an incompetent manager. 

Fair enough if you want to take the attitude of feeling that supporting the club removes any critical faculty. But I suspect that a messageboard whereby people talk about transfers, tactics, results, management, pricing, ownership etc, that discussion may go a bit beyond "support your club." We all do, we show it in different ways and you dont support the club or care about the club any more or any less than anyone else on here. Equally, if your standards are low enough to consider not being like Bolton to be a benchmark, fair play but appreciate that others may not share such low standards.

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

You are given a deadline of end of June so you have to filed them so what's the problem. They were filed on time. Did the EFL needs to put us in embargo? 

Who cares if Luton or Coventry have made signings? Any of then good quality who are better than we have? 

Good luck to Cardiff then if they are done. 

Whether it needs to put us in an embargo or not, they are the rules. Not only did we not submit them within 9 months, which a few other clubs also did and also seemingly went under embargo. But unlike them, even though we knew that we couldnt register players until the accounts were submitted, we still waited until the very last second! Missing out on targets in the process. And to rub salt into the wounds, they didnt even have the decency to explain and be transparent.

Your continued desire to defend actions that are to the detriment of our football club is crazy.

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Yes, but there's being optimistic with good reason, I.e. off the back of an excellent campaign last time round, or off the back of a brilliant transfer window or an inspired managerial appointment etc.

Then there's being on the deck of the Titanic after it's hit the iceberg and putting a brave face on things saying "only a scratch, we'll be in New York soon."

Would you mind sharing what it is that has happened over the last 11 months that gives you grounds for optimism for this season?

No reasons will be given aside from superfan nonsense, nothing constructive. The fact that the post is specifically in a transfer thread within a summer that we spent much of it under an unnecessary embargo and have yet to make a signing suggests to me that the posts are provocative and with the intention to wind up.

[ben_the_beast]

5 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

You are given a deadline of end of June so you have to filed them so what's the problem. They were filed on time. Did the EFL needs to put us in embargo? 

Who cares if Luton or Coventry have made signings? Any of then good quality who are better than we have? 

Good luck to Cardiff then if they are done. 

I don't think it's made a jot of difference, us having been in an embargo. We never organise ourselves to take advantage of early deals anyway as we're usually waiting for the budget, a meeting with the overlords or Tony's hollibobs. 

The notion from the club we missed out on early targets is waffle and more excuses in my eyes. The only thing the embargo did was offer a suitable excuse which will be trotted out all summer and then probably all season long. Conveniently. 

[EgyptianPete]

8 hours ago, Oldgregg86 said:

less queuing  for a half time pint 😉

Always a plus to anything 🤣

[tomphil]

7 hours ago, Mike E said:

Incorrect, he was replaced with the worst goalkeeper in living memory on loan from Brighton.

Correct, history being rewritten to suit there's a lot of it about around Rovers at the min.

Mowbray in black and white in the press said you could say we sold the goalie to buy a striker. Rayas 3 mill paid the 3 mill down payment on Gallagher.

Nobody be telling me that was good business at the time. To be a really good strong progressive club we'd have ended up with the likes of Kaminski and Raya fighting it out for number 1.

That is how you build clubs up.

Edited July 21, 2021 by tomphil

[Bigdoggsteel]

9 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

You are given a deadline of end of June so you have to filed them so what's the problem. They were filed on time. Did the EFL needs to put us in embargo? 

Who cares if Luton or Coventry have made signings? Any of then good quality who are better than we have? 

Good luck to Cardiff then if they are done. 

As people have already explained to you, the signings were what they felt THEY needed. Plus of course some of the players would have been good for us and will excel at their new clubs, we might not have even heard of these players yet. We havent had a head of recruitment in place for 5 months. So between that and the "embargo" just how many signings have we missed out on? 

3 weeks to the start of the season and as usual we will be bringing players in at a stage when they have missed the majority of pre season. We saw the issues this leads to with Ayala, as one example. 

Edited July 21, 2021 by Bigdoggsteel

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, ben_the_beast said:

I don't think it's made a jot of difference, us having been in an embargo. We never organise ourselves to take advantage of early deals anyway as we're usually waiting for the budget, a meeting with the overlords or Tony's hollibobs. 

The notion from the club we missed out on early targets is waffle and more excuses in my eyes. The only thing the embargo did was offer a suitable excuse which will be trotted out all summer and then probably all season long. Conveniently. 

Again another spot on post.

The policy is enquire about a few we can't afford just to make it look like we are doing something. Leave a few offers on tables if they don't get fixed up, then apart from that they wait just to see what's left and what the last min loan market offers.

That's why more often than not we end up with unbalanced squads, loads for certain positions that get rotated and short on others. Just filling out spaces in the squad by the end of windows.

No horses for courses and players shoehorned in.

[JHRover]

9 hours ago, unsall said:

How do you know we’ve let Armstrong’s contract run down, non of us are privy to contracts, we don’t know when he was offered a new one, and that goes for others, remember you saying Armstrong wasn’t worth what we paid for, was it 1.75 mil, last few years only Raya sold and replaced with a very competent replacement for peanuts, same with Nyambe, wonder how much we’re offering him, could be a decent offer but he might be asking silly money, so what we supposed to do just pay him what he wants, listen I know Venkys are hard work, but still prefer it than going through a Bolton and Wigan, I saw that someone on here would rather we go out the league if it meant getting rid of Venkys, now that is silly.

Obviously another Jack Walker would be the best thing to happen, but afraid they aren’t out there…

I think on balance the best assumption to make is that the Club has allowed his contract to run down. Just about every element of the Club is slow and late so to suddenly do the opposite on expensive player contracts is unlikely. 

But it actually doesn't matter. Because whatever the reason or cause of it the fact remains that Armstrong is a major asset that we are going to lose at an undervalue. Of course if the Club did make him a good offer in good time he should have been sold before now whilst we were in a position of some strength.

I dont recall ever saying Armstrong wasn't worth what we paid for him. My recollection is that I was happy and supportive of the deal to bring him in permanently. It seems you have a better memory of my posts going back 3 years than I do so I might be wrong on that. Not that it actually changes anything.

We keep hearing about these Bolton and Wigan comparisons. I'm starting to ask if we are really in that much better shape. OK we are currently a league higher but off the pitch and medium to long term prospects? 

[unsall]

6 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

So basically you are coming onto a messageboard where people discuss different things, and your response to constructive criticisms eg an unavoidable transfer embargo, a paper thin squad, regression in the league table, an out of his depth manager etc is totally unconstructive, to merely "stop being depressing."

The superfan rhetoric is nonsensical, we all support the club hence why many are repulsed by having owners who dont give a shit, a CEO who hasnt got any grasp over the Rovers fanbase and an incompetent manager. 

Fair enough if you want to take the attitude of feeling that supporting the club removes any critical faculty. But I suspect that a messageboard whereby people talk about transfers, tactics, results, management, pricing, ownership etc, that discussion may go a bit beyond "support your club." We all do, we show it in different ways and you dont support the club or care about the club any more or any less than anyone else on here. Equally, if your standards are low enough to consider not being like Bolton to be a benchmark, fair play but appreciate that others may not share such low standards.

Whether it needs to put us in an embargo or not, they are the rules. Not only did we not submit them within 9 months, which a few other clubs also did and also seemingly went under embargo. But unlike them, even though we knew that we couldnt register players until the accounts were submitted, we still waited until the very last second! Missing out on targets in the process. And to rub salt into the wounds, they didnt even have the decency to explain and be transparent.

Your continued desire to defend actions that are to the detriment of our football club is crazy.

Don’t keep going on about superfan, I’m just a fan from a long time back who’s seen the good the bad and the ugly, I just support the TEAM regardless of who’s the owner/ manager, I know a lot of the points you and others are saying is right, but to constantly post every day, about the manager etc is pointless.

The difference with me and others It doesn’t influence me buying a season ticket if we haven’t bought x number of players or who the manager is.

Obviously we need 4/5 more players and I think we will get them in, we have some very talented young players, and hopefully John Park has some good contacts.

Its so easy for some fans on here to say they are fed up watching Rovers and are going to watch a local amateur team, what that really means is that Rovers are just a middle of the road championship side and I’ll be back when/if we get back to the premiership, nothing has changed, we are a small town with a hard core of 5000 fans and fans flock back when things are going well.

I respect yours and other’s opinions we are all different that’s what makes the world go round, but you have to understand others who are far less critical and are naturally half glass full, as against half empty, fingers crossed for some signings shortly..

[unsall]

4 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I think on balance the best assumption to make is that the Club has allowed his contract to run down. Just about every element of the Club is slow and late so to suddenly do the opposite on expensive player contracts is unlikely. 

But it actually doesn't matter. Because whatever the reason or cause of it the fact remains that Armstrong is a major asset that we are going to lose at an undervalue. Of course if the Club did make him a good offer in good time he should have been sold before now whilst we were in a position of some strength.

I dont recall ever saying Armstrong wasn't worth what we paid for him. My recollection is that I was happy and supportive of the deal to bring him in permanently. It seems you have a better memory of my posts going back 3 years than I do so I might be wrong on that. Not that it actually changes anything.

We keep hearing about these Bolton and Wigan comparisons. I'm starting to ask if we are really in that much better shape. OK we are currently a league higher but off the pitch and medium to long term prospects? 

Haha selective memory my friend, you did indeed say you was a little worried that we overpaid for him, but whatever.

If we had sold Armstrong halfway into his contract Rovers would have got slaughtered, why sell your top goal machine, that’s what we used to do back in the day, and then couldn’t replace him.

[Mattyblue]

9 minutes ago, unsall said:

Don’t keep going on about superfan, I’m just a fan from a long time back who’s seen the good the bad and the ugly, I just support the TEAM regardless of who’s the owner/ manager, I know a lot of the points you and others are saying is right, but to constantly post every day, about the manager etc is pointless.

The difference with me and others It doesn’t influence me buying a season ticket if we haven’t bought x number of players or who the manager is.

Obviously we need 4/5 more players and I think we will get them in, we have some very talented young players, and hopefully John Park has some good contacts.

Its so easy for some fans on here to say they are fed up watching Rovers and are going to watch a local amateur team, what that really means is that Rovers are just a middle of the road championship side and I’ll be back when/if we get back to the premiership, nothing has changed, we are a small town with a hard core of 5000 fans and fans flock back when things are going well.

I respect yours and other’s opinions we are all different that’s what makes the world go round, but you have to understand others who are far less critical and are naturally half glass full, as against half empty, fingers crossed for some signings shortly..

Before this summer we haven’t had a ‘hardcore of 5,000 fans’ since the mid 80s, which was the case for most clubs outside the big cities at that time with football at its lowest ebb in this country.

[RevidgeBlue]

16 minutes ago, unsall said:

Don’t keep going on about superfan, I’m just a fan from a long time back who’s seen the good the bad and the ugly, I just support the TEAM regardless of who’s the owner/ manager, I know a lot of the points you and others are saying is right, but to constantly post every day, about the manager etc is pointless.

The difference with me and others It doesn’t influence me buying a season ticket if we haven’t bought x number of players or who the manager is.

Obviously we need 4/5 more players and I think we will get them in, we have some very talented young players, and hopefully John Park has some good contacts.

Its so easy for some fans on here to say they are fed up watching Rovers and are going to watch a local amateur team, what that really means is that Rovers are just a middle of the road championship side and I’ll be back when/if we get back to the premiership, nothing has changed, we are a small town with a hard core of 5000 fans and fans flock back when things are going well.

I respect yours and other’s opinions we are all different that’s what makes the world go round, but you have to understand others who are far less critical and are naturally half glass full, as against half empty, fingers crossed for some signings shortly..

I don't understand how people can go and watch Clitheroe or Accy Stanley or Chorley personally. If I wasn't watching Rovers that would be me done with live football.

All that said, I think you have to realise that not everyone can dismiss last season as though it never happened and erase it from their memory banks and approach the season with the same sort of enthusiasm as if it were August 1994 like Chaddy. I applaud him for his loyalty BTW.

Then there is the added problem that the management tried to flog off part of our infrastructure last season and presumably got over-ruled by the owners once one or two facts were brought to light.

Hope you're right about the signings but the modus operandi over the last couple of seasons has been to wait until the last minute and see what Premier League loans are available irrespective of whether they're the players we need the most in the positions we need to fill the most.

[RoversClitheroe]

Anyway back to the topic.

We are still yet to replace any of the players that have left. 

We are extremely thin in midfield, we only have 1 fit senior CB. (Can't ever class Ayala as fit) Wharton for me is good enough but needs to get fit, are Carter and Magloire good enough?

 

[gumboots]

24 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I don't understand how people can go and watch Clitheroe or Accy Stanley or Chorley personally. If I wasn't watching Rovers that would be me done with live football.

All that said, I think you have to realise that not everyone can dismiss last season as though it never happened and erase it from their memory banks and approach the season with the same sort of enthusiasm as if it were August 1994 like Chaddy. I applaud him for his loyalty BTW.

Then there is the added problem that the management tried to flog off part of our infrastructure last season and presumably got over-ruled by the owners once one or two facts were brought to light.

Hope you're right about the signings but the modus operandi over the last couple of seasons has been to wait until the last minute and see what Premier League loans are available irrespective of whether they're the players we need the most in the positions we need to fill the most.

I wouldn't go to another league club, but we used to go to Clitheroe if Rovers weren't at home on the same day, so it's not a shift of allegiance. And I find it insulting to suggest, as unsall did, that it's the loss of premiership football that lost fans and they'd come back if we were in the Premier League. Many would be back, if not as season ticket holders as walk ons, if there was any ambition,  any competence, any sign that matters were on the up. Nobody expects miracles. Basic ability to run a Championship club would be a good start.