Tony Mowbray's Reign...& is he off to Sunderland ?

[AllRoverAsia]

1 hour ago, Jimmy612 said:

Whilst there's plenty of room for justified debate around Mowbray's ability as a manager, criticism of his loan signings is a bit of an odd approach...  we've fairly consistently signed players from the top clubs around England.  There is a question whether Mowbray has utilised them to their best effect of course...

Elliott
Harwood Belllis
Khadra
JPVH
Tosin
Harrison Reed
Branthwaite
Giles

Whilst some of those haven't worked out as well as hoped, many have been arguably our player of the season or at least a high performer for large periods of seasons.   In my opinion his permanent signings require far more scrutiny.
 

Getting loans of young players from PL clubs is possibly the easiest part of being a Championship manager.

PL clubs are awash with them.

We have picked up some good ones, just a shame we don't do strikers.

It's no way to 'build' a club though, which is what Mowbray always claims hes doing, as its always back to start at the end of the loan periods. A good strategy though for a long 'Journey'.

If I was bothered I'd dig out Mowbray quotes saying you cant succeed on loans and youth, Coventry exit springs to mind.

Edited April 11, 2022 by AllRoverAsia

[AllRoverAsia]

56 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Go back a few months to when we were 2nd and Nixon and the usual crew were starting the drive to get him a new contract via the usual newspaper drivel.

All over social media fans (well some of them actually are, not sure about a lot tho) are screaming give him 3-5 years etc etc.

Then the annual death spiral and it all goes quiet and they all literally disappear, so what is the next move ?   Yep get something out of forums that he has something lined up and he might even be taking our best players with him.

Long standing posters should know by now that where this started on here should be taken with a pinch of salt.  Iv'e always though there are suspect motives at play there.

Bingo!

[Sparks Rover]

1 hour ago, Jimmy612 said:

Whilst there's plenty of room for justified debate around Mowbray's ability as a manager, criticism of his loan signings is a bit of an odd approach...  we've fairly consistently signed players from the top clubs around England.  There is a question whether Mowbray has utilised them to their best effect of course...

Elliott
Harwood Belllis
Khadra
JPVH
Tosin
Harrison Reed
Branthwaite
Giles

Whilst some of those haven't worked out as well as hoped, many have been arguably our player of the season or at least a high performer for large periods of seasons.   In my opinion his permanent signings require far more scrutiny.
 

The 2 examples I gave of poor signings are permanent, contracts for crap

Loans have been 50/50...

Elliott - ok for half a season 
Harwood Belllis - Wharton should have been  in, he did OK.
Khadra - jury out
JPVH - decent
Tosin - not for me
Harrison Reed - misused
Branthwaite - poor
Giles - poor

Sorry mate, he should have gone years ago...if he gets another deal I won't be going.
 

[K-Hod]

Elliott was quite a bit better than okay in that first half of the season….

[JHRover]

48 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Getting loans of young players from PL clubs is possibly the easiest part of being a Championship manager.

PL clubs are awash with them.

We have picked up some good ones, just a shame we don't do strikers.

It's no way to 'build' a club though, which is what Mowbray always claims hes doing, as its always back to start at the end of the loan periods. A good strategy though for a long 'Journey'.

If I was bothered I'd dig out Mowbray quotes saying you cant succeed on loans and youth, Coventry exit springs to mind.

Spot on. PL clubs are desperate to find somewhere to send their youngsters and will do so if it ticks the boxes for them. That is they can go somewhere where they will be played on a regular basis and get development time.

Due to the way we operate it is no surprise we are well up the queue. Well located for NW and Midland clubs, mid table Championship football, almost certain to play people on a regular basis because we've such a reliance on loans and a manager who loves to rotate and tinker even to the detriment of results.

Mowbray has had 5 years as manager and 10 transfer windows so it isn't exactly an achievement that within that time and opportunity he has brought in a few good loans. Clubs know we need them and will play them.

But it goes beyond that - look through the Championship and I doubt you'll find a club that hasn't got at least a couple of players on loan from PL sides.

The Mowbray crew would argue that he has the ear of Pep and Jurgen, that they trust him more than any other manager, that it is only due to Mowbray and his contacts that we can bring in any quality on loan. It's just another strand to the mythology that we need him and without him it all falls to bits.

[1864roverite]

1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

The 2 examples I gave of poor signings are permanent, contracts for crap

Loans have been 50/50...

Elliott - ok for half a season 
Harwood Belllis - Wharton should have been  in, he did OK.
Khadra - jury out
JPVH - decent
Tosin - not for me
Harrison Reed - misused
Branthwaite - poor
Giles - poor

Sorry mate, he should have gone years ago...if he gets another deal I won't be going.
 

Loans have been 50/50...

Elliott - ok for half a season - tailed off until he got himself injured.
Harwood Belllis - solid player at the back.
Khadra - jury out - played out of position and not a constant in the team which affects his confidence.
JPVH - Best loan signing we have had alongside Elliot
Tosin - not for me - really? he was quality, is quality and will go far in the game.
Harrison Reed - misused - a mowbray conundrum on how could have got the best out of a quality player!
Branthwaite - poor - harsh and could have progressed at Rovers.
Giles - poor - he is played out of position, never features consistently and another mowbray fuck up - the best crosser of a ball in the Championship yet mowbray ignores his quality.

[G Somerset Rover]

2 hours ago, tomphil said:

Go back a few months to when we were 2nd and Nixon and the usual crew were starting the drive to get him a new contract via the usual newspaper drivel.

All over social media fans (well some of them actually are, not sure about a lot tho) are screaming give him 3-5 years etc etc.

Then the annual death spiral and it all goes quiet and they all literally disappear, so what is the next move ?   Yep get something out of forums that he has something lined up and he might even be taking our best players with him.

Long standing posters should know by now that where this started on here should be taken with a pinch of salt.  Iv'e always though there are suspect motives at play there.

Oh they'll be back out in force when we win our final couple of matches (we'll still miss out on the play-offs, mind). "If only BBD had been fit all season", "Mowbray's turned it around", "we were so unlucky to go so close", "he deserves the summer". We all know it's coming.

[tomphil]

We have to take into account we loan in kids and many with no experience so it's always going to be swings and roundabouts.

Not often we'll get one that doesn't put a foot wrong all season or doesn't have one weak spot or another. It just goes with the turf but overall i won't knock Mowbray or whoever is responsible for the loans.

He's done well imo on that score although the usual questions remain about how he uses a lot of them.

[MarkBRFC]

All those loan signings were pointless in the end though.

If we had played Travis from the start over Reed, we might have finished 18th instead of 15th, or if we had played Wharton all season over Tosin, we might have finished 18th instead of 11th, or Dolan all season instead of Elliot we might have finished 20th instead of 15th.

There is no prize money per place at this level so we would have been better off playing and growing our players rather than achieving nothing with everyone else's.

[riverholmes]

The Clarkson loan was an very odd one. We desperately needed someone to take the weight off Travis and who might offer more than Johnson and Davenport. Yet, as far as I recall, Clarkson was never played for any length of time as a CM, rather in the lone No.10 role. I could be mistaken in this.

As it was, he got frozen out on the bench and on leaving, Mowbray described him as an outstanding talent: "You talk about Harvey Elliott, he’s got all those qualities, weight of pass, brilliant finishing, an amazing footballer who sees all the pictures, all the patterns. Yet he’s come at a time when our team is functioning and he understands."

Edited April 11, 2022 by riverholmes

[Exiled_Rover]

2 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

The 2 examples I gave of poor signings are permanent, contracts for crap

Loans have been 50/50...

Elliott - ok for half a season 
Harwood Belllis - Wharton should have been  in, he did OK.
Khadra - jury out
JPVH - decent
Tosin - not for me
Harrison Reed - misused
Branthwaite - poor
Giles - poor

Sorry mate, he should have gone years ago...if he gets another deal I won't be going.
 

• Elliott - excellent
• Harwood Belllis - excellent
• Khadra - good
• JPVH - outstanding
• Tosin - very good
• Harrison Reed - misused
• Branthwaite - very poor
• Giles - misused
• Poveda - poor
• Clarkson - very poor

It's a mug's game analysing his loans though - being a nursery for PL academies is the lowest hanging fruit. If you have any sort of eye you can identify who the good ones are and offer them a starting space at your Championship club for a year. PL clubs lap that up.  

He's relying on loans to fill out the gaps in his squad because his recruitment has been abysmal year in, year out. He's lucky that 5 Academy players are holding down the fort in the starting XI - an Academy that he and his mates are trying to get rid of. 

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Exiled_Rover

[Exiled_Rover]

45 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Oh they'll be back out in force when we win our final couple of matches (we'll still miss out on the play-offs, mind). "If only BBD had been fit all season", "Mowbray's turned it around", "we were so unlucky to go so close", "he deserves the summer". We all know it's coming.

I get angry at how our club has been treated - and is viewed by external parties. I'd rather go bust at this point than continue in this purgatory. 

[WacoRover]

All talk of his transfers, loans, dispositions on the pitch, etc, aside, to me, it comes down to one thing: His Major accomplishment at the club was promoting out of League 1. 

That’s ancient history now. it’s simply time to move on. 

[chaddyrovers]

19 hours ago, jumpin' said:

Was told at Coventry that he’s off to WBA. Same person also said that Rothwell is off to Bournemouth. The information came from Rothwell’s father 

 

Thanks for sharing the info and I appreciated you mentioning who was the source of your information 

16 hours ago, JHRover said:

He's been in charge for 12 games. Bit early to be brandishing him a failure. 

They were a sinking side when he arrived and there are signs of them starting to turn a corner.

I find it utterly bizarre that you would support the appointment of people who have never managed before - Wilcox, Johnson or of extremely limited experience - Mason, Edwards - yet you would turn your nose up at the most successful manager there has been at this level in the last 20 years with 4 promotions and a play-off final.

I think you are more interested in image and perception than in cold hard results. I think you are more interested in unearthing a hidden gem or doing the weird and wonderful and then being able to celebrate if it works out well than you are just going for tried, tested, proven.

I would have thought Bruce would have more of impact given his experience and knowledge. Just look at the Impact Steve Cooper instant after replacing Chris Hughton at Forest, in fact he won his first 5 games in charge. 

Steve Cooper and Neil Critchley had never managed a first team squad before being appoint Swansea and Blackpool first team manager. Just look at how well they had done managing those clubs and now Steve Cooper at Forest. So yes I would be in favour appointing someone like that but I have mention several different managers like Neil Critchley from Blackpool, Gareth Ainsworth from Wycombe and Paul Warne from Rotherham. 

Bruce might have won promotion in the past but In my opinion he is another one who is yesterday man like Mick McCarthy, Chris Hughton, etc. 

I would to see Rovers appoint a young, dynamitic manager/head coach who has good tactical approach, good training ground coach, will keep bringing through and developing our young academy players

4 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

If anyone on here thinks or believes he has signed a deal to go to another club without it ever hitting the headlines on some media platform then therein lies your answer. He hasn't, it hasn't, and indeed, if WBA want to progress then they will not want a dinosaur like Mowbray after his annual collapse and failure to take the team up when in such a good position.

Where would Rothwell's father being told fans fault information? 

It was reported that WBA and Bruce have each escape break clause for after the season ends was reported yesterday. 

[Oldgregg86]

2 hours ago, K-Hod said:

Elliott was quite a bit better than okay in that first half of the season….

And jpvh has been far better than decent . He’s possibly the player of the year and as misused as Harrison reed was he was still class

[JHRover]

27 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I would to see Rovers appoint a young, dynamitic manager/head coach who has good tactical approach, good training ground coach, will keep bringing through and developing our young academy players

Where would Rothwell's father being told fans fault information? 

It was reported that WBA and Bruce have each escape break clause for after the season ends was reported yesterday. 

Define a 'good training ground coach' - what does that involve and how do you know if someone is that?

Define a 'dynamic manager' - what is one of those and how do you know certain people fit that criteria?

Define 'young' - what does age have to do with it? Would you turn down Pep Guardiola and Jurgen Klopp who are both in their 50s because they aren't young enough?

[chaddyrovers]

 

 

39 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Define a 'good training ground coach' - what does that involve and how do you know if someone is that?

Define a 'dynamic manager' - what is one of those and how do you know certain people fit that criteria?

A good CEO and Footballing board would have a shortlist already with names on it to replace Mowbray with. The club should be doing plenty of research, speaking to footballing people about potential managers/head coach. sadly Rovers don't have a footballing board or head of football operations like other clubs do. That's how you know whether fit into what I used above in Dynamic and Good training ground coach. I have given two examples of managers who would fit into this in Steve Cooper and Neil Critchley. 

I will ask you and other posters 3 very sensible and simple questions? who would be on your football shortlist? what would be your criteria to be on your shortlist? who from your shortlist would you appoint

28 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Would you turn down Pep Guardiola and Jurgen Klopp who are both in their 50s because they aren't young enough?

Let's be realistic neither are coming here. We are talking two of the best managers out there as yesterday game shown. I'm talking realistic and sensible suggestions and possible appointments from Blackburn Rovers

[roversfan99]

59 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

 

A good CEO and Footballing board would have a shortlist already with names on it to replace Mowbray with. The club should be doing plenty of research, speaking to footballing people about potential managers/head coach. sadly Rovers don't have a footballing board or head of football operations like other clubs do. That's how you know whether fit into what I used above in Dynamic and Good training ground coach. I have given two examples of managers who would fit into this in Steve Cooper and Neil Critchley. 

I will ask you and other posters 3 very sensible and simple questions? who would be on your football shortlist? what would be your criteria to be on your shortlist? who from your shortlist would you appoint

Let's be realistic neither are coming here. We are talking two of the best managers out there as yesterday game shown. I'm talking realistic and sensible suggestions and possible appointments from Blackburn Rovers

Did you not name Ryan Mason who has only ever managed in a very brief interim role at Spurs, and Jason Wilcox who has never managed and presumably wouldn't even be under consideration had he not played here previously? I don't get how you could have possibly deemed these names as dynamic when there is basically no evidence whatsoever as to how good they are as managers or even if they want to become managers. I dont get why you are so fixated on this specific criteria.

 

[rog of the rovers]

The final chapter of Mowbray's reign as Rovers manager was written seasons ago, no matter when he leaves.

Second Half Collapses

Edited April 11, 2022 by rog of the rovers

[roverandout]

6 hours ago, Jimmy612 said:

Whilst there's plenty of room for justified debate around Mowbray's ability as a manager, criticism of his loan signings is a bit of an odd approach...  we've fairly consistently signed players from the top clubs around England.  There is a question whether Mowbray has utilised them to their best effect of course...

Elliott
Harwood Belllis
Khadra
JPVH
Tosin
Harrison Reed
Branthwaite
Giles

Whilst some of those haven't worked out as well as hoped, many have been arguably our player of the season or at least a high performer for large periods of seasons.   In my opinion his permanent signings require far more scrutiny.
 

Half them were loan deals that haven't aided rovers at all. Only benefited their parent clubs

[roverandout]

6 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Half them were loan deals that haven't aided rovers at all. Only benefited their parent clubs

When I say haven't aided rovers I mean we have just stagnated  Whilst they have been decent rovers have muddled along midtable 

[lraC]

1 hour ago, rog of the rovers said:

The final chapter of Mowbray's reign as Rovers manager was written seasons ago, no matter when he leaves.

Second Half Collapses

The goals for column is very telling.

If I didn't know what had gone on, I would have thought the players had given up.

Football without goals, is pretty stale.

[SuperBrfc]

Chaddy, of course, you can listen to whoever you like. However, I just want to say there are fans out there who will spin any crap they can because they want to sound intellectual and are looking for a job in football. I only say this because I suspect you take some of your views from these people. You know who I am talking about. If I am wrong, I apologise.

I personally do not pay any interest in what they have to say. The eye test shows us all how shit we have been. Yet xG battle wins and all sorts of other stats are being put forward to try and defend Mowbray and put a positive slant on the crap we are seeing. Last season during our abysmal 2 in 17 run the same people were talking about how it's statistically the best we've ever played, the most possession we've ever had and so on. The same people were bigging up Pickering as being the best thing since sliced bread.

These people use buzzwords such as dynamic coach and all the other jargon, they put forward L1 players we could sign, analyse data and defend Mowbray because they are after a job in football. Anybody who demands better than the crap we see is negative and spoilt.

I call these fans out (not you, Chaddy) because these type of fans enable mediocrity, make apologies for Mowbray and help to keep Rovers down in the mud.

[Miller11]

I don’t think the Dinosaur criticism is accurate…

A dinosaur would be playing long balls up to Sam Gallagher in the box. Mowbray has Gallagher hugging the touchline.

A dinosaur would want his centre halves concentrating on booting balls away from danger areas. Mowbray has them all failing to channel their inner Beckenbauer.

A dinosaur would want his full backs defending wide areas, not being the focal point of the attack.

A dinosaur would have his best ball playing midfielder deep enough to pick the ball up from the defenders and play it through to the forwards. Mowbray has Buckley so advanced there is never anyone to pass to, apart from the opposition keeper.

A dinosaur would think attackers do their most important work between the posts. Mowbray thinks they are better served by the corner flag.

A dinosaur would bring a middle aged Bradley Johnson on to shore up the midfield. Mowbray last used him to buzz around upfront, chasing loose balls and closing down defenders.

A dinosaur would look at their players pragmatically and play to their strengths. Mowbray looks at his players and desperately tries to make them do things that don’t come naturally to them.

A dinosaur would have us utilising throw ins to our advantage. Under Mowbray we concede possession from them all the time.

A dinosaur believes in rigid tactics and formations. Mowbray tells us he doesn’t believe in them at all.

A dinosaur would be thick skinned. He’d defend his players in public, be protective of them and shoulder criticism on their behalf. Mowbray deflects, throws his players under the bus, gets stroppy, and claims 27 year olds are babies.

A dinosaur would build a solid defence as the foundation of his team. Mowbray has stumbled across one after 5 years of trying, which will be decimated in a months time.

He’s not a dinosaur, he’s a failing wannabe innovator.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Miller11

[JHRover]

7 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

 

A good CEO and Footballing board would have a shortlist already with names on it to replace Mowbray with. The club should be doing plenty of research, speaking to footballing people about potential managers/head coach. sadly Rovers don't have a footballing board or head of football operations like other clubs do. That's how you know whether fit into what I used above in Dynamic and Good training ground coach. I have given two examples of managers who would fit into this in Steve Cooper and Neil Critchley. 

I will ask you and other posters 3 very sensible and simple questions? who would be on your football shortlist? what would be your criteria to be on your shortlist? who from your shortlist would you appoint

Let's be realistic neither are coming here. We are talking two of the best managers out there as yesterday game shown. I'm talking realistic and sensible suggestions and possible appointments from Blackburn Rovers

You didn't answer my questions. How and why are Steve Cooper and Neil Critchley 'dynamic' or 'good training ground coaches' as opposed to anyone else? How do you know that they are more dynamic than anyone else?

You seem to attach great importance to these 'attributes' so I was interested to know what they actually were and how you determine if a manager has them or not.

It seems to me you are referring to younger end managers who have recently emerged from coaching at youth or reserve levels and have transitioned well to managing at senior level. If that's what you want us to do - identify someone to transition from coaching youth teams to first teams fine - I'm not sure why you want that or think it is essential. There aren't many who make that transition. Even Critchley has a lot to prove yet with his career still in its infancy. Gary Bowyer made that transition yet wasn't deemed good enough here.

Who would be on my shortlist? Off the top of my head, without applying much thought to it, I would think about the following people who are currently available or working at a level where they should be obtainable for a billionaire backed club:

Slaven Bilic, Daniel Farke, Slavisa Jokanovic, Gary Rowett, Chris Hughton, Garry Monk, Mark Bonner, Danny Cowley, Liam Manning, Ian Evatt, Uwe Rosler, Nuno Espirito Santo, Vladimir Ivic, Wayne Rooney, Lee Carsley

I accept however that it isn't easy - because we won't go for any of these names either because we won't pay for them or won't allow them to do their jobs properly or because they don't have the right agent.

So instead we scratch around for the desperate and willing - those who nobody else want or who know the right people.

We could and should have moved for Chris Wilder, Steve Cooper or Alex Neil - all of whom were available last summer and are infinitely better managers than Mowbray, now we won't get any of them.

I'm trying to be realistic - I don't apply arbitrary requirements like age or unmeasurable metrics like being a 'training ground' coach or 'dynamic'. I just look at track records and reputations in the game and don't care if they are 70 or 40 or are used to working in youth systems or if they come from Blackburn or Brazil. I don't think it matters. You just need a good manager able to work for lunatic owners. By taking your approach - limiting options to those of a young age, those who have never managed before or those only who have recently worked in someones academy - I think you are taking needless risk for little reason.

The first team isn't an academy and one of the problems is Mowbray treating it as a shop window or development centre for players. We need promotion and we need a manager who is going to focus on that and that alone.

Just watched the interviews of Corberan and Jones after tonight's game. Corberan clearly has a far greater understanding of the game than Mowbray and you can tell that just by listening to his interview for a few minutes.

Jones disgusts me but after losing an important game tonight he is clearly raging and is wound up like a spring, raring to go and coming with the fighting talk. Beats shoulder shrug Tony going through the motions.