v Hartlepool Utd (h) - Carabao Cup, 10/8/22

[roverstdt]

I feel like there is a division between fans who if they say anything positive about Mowbray are seen as living in the past as things are better with JDT. 

Look by all means JDT does come across a hell of a lot more passionate, and has been a built a better connection with the fans in two months than Mowbray could do in 5 years. However, I do think some people are quick to forget what actually Mowbray inherited and where we are today. A lot of the rewards that JDT is getting with the academy and the squad were built up by Mowbray and the club prior to his arrival. I can name the following just to send shivers down your spine as to what we had in the squad: Stokes, Brown, Greer, Ward, Feeneym Guthrie, and Akpan. 

 

We were far away from having anything of the squad we have today. Should be seen as a god? No, but should be grateful for the job he did for us across the 5 years, he created stability, got us promoted and created a squad with assets. Am i right to be excited about the JDT era yes! But he has only had three games and a season is judged by May not August. So lets enjoy the ride and see where this takes us, without having to run over our previous manager. He wasn't a Kean, Coyle, Berg, or whoever else you wnt me to add to this list! 

[Displaced Rover]

14 minutes ago, Gordon Ottershaw said:

I think, with the passage of time, Mowbray's tenure will eventually be viewed more positively by some of his detractors.

Utter nonsense.

With the passage of time we'll all continue to wonder why we spent the last 4 years back in the Championship treading water and seemingly making no effort to get promoted, while the manager spent every interview talking the club down. 

[Tricky]

6 minutes ago, roverstdt said:

I feel like there is a division between fans who if they say anything positive about Mowbray are seen as living in the past as things are better with JDT. 

Look by all means JDT does come across a hell of a lot more passionate, and has been a built a better connection with the fans in two months than Mowbray could do in 5 years. However, I do think some people are quick to forget what actually Mowbray inherited and where we are today. A lot of the rewards that JDT is getting with the academy and the squad were built up by Mowbray and the club prior to his arrival. I can name the following just to send shivers down your spine as to what we had in the squad: Stokes, Brown, Greer, Ward, Feeneym Guthrie, and Akpan. 

 

We were far away from having anything of the squad we have today. Should be seen as a god? No, but should be grateful for the job he did for us across the 5 years, he created stability, got us promoted and created a squad with assets. Am i right to be excited about the JDT era yes! But he has only had three games and a season is judged by May not August. So lets enjoy the ride and see where this takes us, without having to run over our previous manager. He wasn't a Kean, Coyle, Berg, or whoever else you wnt me to add to this list! 

fans are just fickle mate

[1864roverite]

I think the issue with Mowbray's tenancy is that he grew seriously stale and indeed rather than making further progress, he stopped, regressed and then fell out with everyone including himself ! This is where it went wrong and he overstayed his welcome and became even more stubborn with petty excuse after excuse.

There is no doubt he righted the ship and the work behind the scenes isn't just about Mowbray and Venus, Sheron and co take a lot of credit for the manner and progress of the youth set up as well as all of the other back room staff, that's why they are all coveted by bigger clubs.

I enjoyed his first 3 and a half years but then it went rotten and last season where he had the chance to write his place in the BRFC history books, he sulked, he moaned and he blew the chance big time, that is what really hurts.

[OsloRover]

Full match replay now up on Rovers TV. Pleasantly surprised to see that.

[M_B]

35 minutes ago, 47er said:

5 years of "spadework"? Never getting any nearer?  You've bought into the "journey" bullshit i think!

The facts are there, I know they're a pain. 

He took over a team of overaged, overpaid players in a relegation fight. 

He left the second youngest squad in the Championship, with the record number of academy players, assembled under a strict salary cap, in 8th place. If you want to call it a journey, it's up to you, it is what it is. 

His time was up, Tomasson looks like the perfect fit, everything is good, but let's not rewrite history. 

[had.e.nuff]

4 hours ago, Mellor Rover said:

Few observations from my end:

That was an absolute joy to see. Young lads, working hard vs lower league opposition. None of this boring Mowbray esque bullshit about being young lads followed up by a lazy performance we've grown accustomed to.

Dack showing what he's all about. Not seen enough of Szmodics yet, but only one man in the club prior to his arrival makes the run Dack did for his goal. Gallagher and Vale should take notes. 5 seconds of effort in return of a goal. Unlucky not to have one in the first half too on the stretch. Hopefully he gives JDT a real headache as to team selection over the next couple of weeks.

Edun looked good. Maybe that's his level? Although he had another promising cameo against Swansea. Positive.

A. Wharton looks good, just a bit under developed for championship football for me. I'd be looking to bring another CM in and loan him out.

JDT & Remy look like the real deal tactically. That team knew exactly what they had to do and how to do it. And the lads who didn't get on having to do a 45 min training session in front of both at 10pm last night was fantastic. All the lads are currently in 6 days a week (Mondays off) and seem to be buying into it so far.

My only worry is squad depth and how far from behind we have come from this window. Even with a few signings, the demands of the championship will take its toll on this style of football. I'm 'happy' to see this as a season of massive transition, we'll lose some games and drop silly points like any team will. But another 2 windows with JDT and Broughton and next season is looking, at this stage, like a real opportunity to end our exile from the Prem. The foundations are laid and now it's about adding quality. Mowbray added filler players and sat them on the bench for 6 weeks whilst his favourites picked up 5 points to 'learn how we play'. Broughton is signing players better than what we currently have/players who will genuinely push for a starting spot.

Breath of fresh air, all of it.

If we had loaned Adam Wharton from a top 6 premier side we would be more than happy with his performance and would cut he more slack , i think we have to start realizing we have a top academy I bet JDT cant believe his luck with whats coming through.

[K-Hod]

1 hour ago, Gordon Ottershaw said:

I think, with the passage of time, Mowbray's tenure will eventually be viewed more positively by some of his detractors.

I doubt that anyone will ever look upon last season’s collapse as anything other than a disaster tbf.

[Admiral Nelsen]

32 minutes ago, M_B said:

The facts are there, I know they're a pain. 

He took over a team of overaged, overpaid players in a relegation fight. 

He left the second youngest squad in the Championship, with the record number of academy players, assembled under a strict salary cap, in 8th place. If you want to call it a journey, it's up to you, it is what it is. 

His time was up, Tomasson looks like the perfect fit, everything is good, but let's not rewrite history. 

 

I suspect that the earlier post (that Mowbray will be judged more favourably after a few years) is right. Hopefully the success of JDT will tell a story of why we needed to move on from Mowbray, but also that he left us some decent materials to work with too. 

 

9 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

I doubt that anyone will ever look upon last season’s collapse as anything other than a disaster tbf.

 

Unless it was the collapse that ushered in the new era! 

It was a completely unacceptable run of form, and his tendency to go on these spells every year was easily the most important reason why he had to go. The thing that gets me though is that he was here for so long - responsible for some massive calls both good and bad - and yet things like his demeanour in interviews or on the touch line regularly get brought up as a reason why fans are happy that he's gone. 

Each to their own I suppose, but I can't think of anything less important. 

[K-Hod]

2 minutes ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

 

I suspect that the earlier post (that Mowbray will be judged more favourably after a few years) is right. Hopefully the success of JDT will tell a story of why we needed to move on from Mowbray, but also that he left us some decent materials to work with too. 

 

 

Unless it was the collapse that ushered in the new era! 

It was a completely unacceptable run of form, and his tendency to go on these spells every year was easily the most important reason why he had to go. The thing that gets me though is that he was here for so long - responsible for some massive calls both good and bad - and yet things like his demeanour in interviews or on the touch line regularly get brought up as a reason why fans are happy that he's gone. 

Each to their own I suppose, but I can't think of anything less important. 

All that stuff only became an issue when we were losing games. If he was a miserable swine, but we were winning, I don’t imagine it ever would have been mentioned.

[Dan]

1 hour ago, tomphil said:

The first people to say they are impressed and pleased with what they inherited are JDT and his staff.

Both in ability and attitude with a good team spirit here already so that is the biggest compliment to the Mowbray era.

The squad has been crying out for new voices ideas and direction for a few years though. So hopefully for once under this ownership we actually have the next step in the building process now.  

Goodbye water treading and hello realistic ambition but NOT expectation.

He did build a good squad, but he mismanaged it and the death spirals every year held us back. So frustrating. At times it was like he didn’t want to be here, the season before last it was almost like he wanted to be sacked. After the new year last season it was just bizarre at times, he completely lost the plot. Add in the disgraceful comments about the supporters and for me he soured any fond memories. 

[RevidgeBlue]

2 hours ago, MarkBRFC said:

I'm not one for sticking up for Mowbray, but in the 20 cup ties he was in charge of we only lost to lower league opposition 3 times.

If that's correct, going out against lower League oppsosition three times in five seasons is hardly a badge of honour is it?

I actually  looked this up last season after we were knocked out of the League Cup at the first time of asking (against Morecambe was it?)

Wins in either Cup (especially the FA Cup I think) were as rare as rocking horse **** under Mowbray so last night was a pleasant change. My main hope arising out of it (apart from progressing in the Cup for once) was that those who played would perform well enough to genuinely keep the first X1 on their toes and spur them on to even better performances and I'd say they managed that and then some.

As another poster mentioned before (and got the most likes I've ever seen for one post) I don't know what JDT thinks he is playing at. He should know Blackburn Rovers don't do Cup competitions and that the demeanour required generally from our manager is to mope around the place like a wet weekend moaning about missing your family, reminding everyone it isn't 1995, bigging up our opposition and talking us down at every opportunity.

Someone needs to have a word with him sharpish before all this positivity and common sense gets completely out of hand! 

(Long may it continue)

[MarkBRFC]

20 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

 

Wins in either Cup (especially the FA Cup I think) were as rare as rocking horse **** under Mowbray so last night was a pleasant change. My main hope arising out of it (apart from progressing in the Cup for once) was that those who played would perform well enough to genuinely keep the first X1 on their toes and spur them on to even better performances and I'd say they managed that and then some.

 

FA Cup, no wins since 2017!

[roverstdt]

1 hour ago, 1864roverite said:

I think the issue with Mowbray's tenancy is that he grew seriously stale and indeed rather than making further progress, he stopped, regressed and then fell out with everyone including himself ! This is where it went wrong and he overstayed his welcome and became even more stubborn with petty excuse after excuse.

There is no doubt he righted the ship and the work behind the scenes isn't just about Mowbray and Venus, Sheron and co take a lot of credit for the manner and progress of the youth set up as well as all of the other back room staff, that's why they are all coveted by bigger clubs.

I enjoyed his first 3 and a half years but then it went rotten and last season where he had the chance to write his place in the BRFC history books, he sulked, he moaned and he blew the chance big time, that is what really hurts.

His overall tenancy is bar one year he improved year on year so we never actually regressed if we are talking about from a squad performance stand point: 

We did 8th last year, 15th year before, 11th year before that, 15th year before that. 

21/22	https://tmssl.akamaized.net/images/logo/verysmall/gb2.png?lm=1643026970	Championship	Second Tier	19	12	15	59:50	9	69	8	Tony Mowbray
20/21	https://tmssl.akamaized.net/images/logo/verysmall/gb2.png?lm=1643026970	Championship	Second Tier	15	12	19	65:54	11	57	15	Tony Mowbray
19/20	https://tmssl.akamaized.net/images/logo/verysmall/gb2.png?lm=1643026970	Championship	Second Tier	17	12	17	66:63	3	63	11	Tony Mowbray
18/19	https://tmssl.akamaized.net/images/logo/verysmall/gb2.png?lm=1643026970	Championship	Second Tier	16	12	18	64:69	-5	60	15	Tony Mowbray
17/18	https://tmssl.akamaized.net/images/logo/verysmall/gb3.png?lm=1466594034	League One	Third Tier	28	12	6	82:40	42	96	2

[R0verb0y]

I can remember posting on here in probably the first year of Mowbray's tenure, and under a pen-name for which I can no longer recall the password, that we were - roughly just below the halfway point in the second division - where we were at the first time I remembered my Dad bringing me, aged 7, to Ewood.

As I see it, the problem is that what's happened to This Great Club Of Ours in the last thirty years is that fans' expectations have grown.

Looking back, we were in a way guilty of assuming that the trustees of the Walker Trust would be imbued with the same love of the club as Uncle Jack had. And that any body which sought to buy the club from the Trust would realise that stopping still was, effectively, taking backward steps.

Unfortunately, we're in a much more mercenary world these days. And while I understand why Mowbray attracts so much disapproval, I wonder how many of us, especially those with children whom we want to see through their education,  would have been prepared to put our jobs on the line by telling the company's owners that, if they wanted to see the glory days return to Ewood, they would to have dig deeper into their back pockets.

Just asking!

[Mattyblue]

In the present day, most Rovers fans I come across, hope, not even expect, that in a good season we will be ‘in the mix’ for the second tier play offs positions… something  we spent the majority of the pre-Jack 1980s doing.

Doesn’t seem a particularly ‘spoilt’ fanbase that has such an outlook, and it certainly shouldn't lend itself to barbs of ‘too high expectations’, ‘it’s not 1995 anymore’.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Mattyblue

[phili]

2 hours ago, roverstdt said:

I feel like there is a division between fans who if they say anything positive about Mowbray are seen as living in the past as things are better with JDT. 

Look by all means JDT does come across a hell of a lot more passionate, and has been a built a better connection with the fans in two months than Mowbray could do in 5 years. However, I do think some people are quick to forget what actually Mowbray inherited and where we are today. A lot of the rewards that JDT is getting with the academy and the squad were built up by Mowbray and the club prior to his arrival. I can name the following just to send shivers down your spine as to what we had in the squad: Stokes, Brown, Greer, Ward, Feeneym Guthrie, and Akpan. 

 

We were far away from having anything of the squad we have today. Should be seen as a god? No, but should be grateful for the job he did for us across the 5 years, he created stability, got us promoted and created a squad with assets. Am i right to be excited about the JDT era yes! But he has only had three games and a season is judged by May not August. So lets enjoy the ride and see where this takes us, without having to run over our previous manager. He wasn't a Kean, Coyle, Berg, or whoever else you wnt me to add to this list! 

Although Mowbray did want to close down the academy and was over ruled by Venky's so I am not to sure how much credit he should get for everything coming through now. I think all credit should go to the academy and academy recruitment team.

[roverstdt]

8 minutes ago, phili said:

Although Mowbray did want to close down the academy and was over ruled by Venky's so I am not to sure how much credit he should get for everything coming through now. I think all credit should go to the academy and academy recruitment team.

Send me the article to this that has his name associated to this, because if I remember at the time it was Waggott leading this not Mowbray. Mowbray is the manager he doesn't have a say in buying and selling of stadium and training ground facilities. So once again not fair to associated that to him. He was quoted saying he didn't believe it was a bad thing but he wasn't the one who put the training ground up for sale. I am luckily through my work have been able to check out academies structure in the UK and Spurs have the set up that everyone is under the same roof so from that perspective it is a set up that work. I am not one for overly defending Mowbray, but i am totally against blaming him for every single downfall this club has had throughout the last 5 years. Some things he takes responsibility for others it was above his pay grade and if you boss says I want to sale the training you are not going to have a rogue employee saying "I think this is a stupid idea" in front of the press. 

[islander200]

8 minutes ago, roverstdt said:

Send me the article to this that has his name associated to this, because if I remember at the time it was Waggott leading this not Mowbray. Mowbray is the manager he doesn't have a say in buying and selling of stadium and training ground facilities. So once again not fair to associated that to him. He was quoted saying he didn't believe it was a bad thing but he wasn't the one who put the training ground up for sale. I am luckily through my work have been able to check out academies structure in the UK and Spurs have the set up that everyone is under the same roof so from that perspective it is a set up that work. I am not one for overly defending Mowbray, but i am totally against blaming him for every single downfall this club has had throughout the last 5 years. Some things he takes responsibility for others it was above his pay grade and if you boss says I want to sale the training you are not going to have a rogue employee saying "I think this is a stupid idea" in front of the press. 

Mowbray did question (publicly) the merit of running a cat1 academy and the cost saying the money could be used for the first team and we could pick up older younger players released by prem clubs 

[den]

39 minutes ago, roverstdt said:

His overall tenancy is bar one year he improved year on year so we never actually regressed if we are talking about from a squad performance stand point: 

We did 8th last year, 15th year before, 11th year before that, 15th year before that. 

21/22	https://tmssl.akamaized.net/images/logo/verysmall/gb2.png?lm=1643026970	Championship	Second Tier	19	12	15	59:50	9	69	8	Tony Mowbray
20/21	https://tmssl.akamaized.net/images/logo/verysmall/gb2.png?lm=1643026970	Championship	Second Tier	15	12	19	65:54	11	57	15	Tony Mowbray
19/20	https://tmssl.akamaized.net/images/logo/verysmall/gb2.png?lm=1643026970	Championship	Second Tier	17	12	17	66:63	3	63	11	Tony Mowbray
18/19	https://tmssl.akamaized.net/images/logo/verysmall/gb2.png?lm=1643026970	Championship	Second Tier	16	12	18	64:69	-5	60	15	Tony Mowbray
17/18	https://tmssl.akamaized.net/images/logo/verysmall/gb3.png?lm=1466594034	League One	Third Tier	28	12	6	82:40	42	96	2

Using last season 8th place finish as evidence of improvement is pushing it a bit.

In truth, turning a very unexpected promotion form into relegation form was a huge minus, not a huge plus.

[phili]

5 minutes ago, roverstdt said:

Send me the article to this that has his name associated to this, because if I remember at the time it was Waggott leading this not Mowbray. Mowbray is the manager he doesn't have a say in buying and selling of stadium and training ground facilities. So once again not fair to associated that to him. He was quoted saying he didn't believe it was a bad thing but he wasn't the one who put the training ground up for sale. I am luckily through my work have been able to check out academies structure in the UK and Spurs have the set up that everyone is under the same roof so from that perspective it is a set up that work. I am not one for overly defending Mowbray, but i am totally against blaming him for every single downfall this club has had throughout the last 5 years. Some things he takes responsibility for others it was above his pay grade and if you boss says I want to sale the training you are not going to have a rogue employee saying "I think this is a stupid idea" in front of the press. 

That is the merging of both sites which Waggott wanted to do. This is different, Mowbray wanted to close the academy when we were relegated and tried again when we were promoted to inject more funds into the first team. I will send through the articles later when I get in

[joey_big_nose]

16 minutes ago, den said:

Using last season 8th place finish as evidence of improvement is pushing it a bit.

In truth, turning a very unexpected promotion form into relegation form was a huge minus, not a huge plus.

To be fair whether you have a great first half then poor second half or vice versa it's the same outcome if you finish 8th. To think anything else is just recency bias. 

Mowbray did okay. JDT looks like he might be putting something special together or it could be the new manager bounce... will take a couple of months to figure that out. 

But generally everything JDT and co are doing is stuff I like - playing the youth, high intensity, meaningful passing, good tactical defending.

Aside from the personalities involved splitting the three main areas of the club managers role across three qualified people makes sense. JDT - leadership and values; Remy - tactics; Broughton - personnel. Reckon Remy should be looked at as one of the key three individuals.  Mowbray was trying to cover all that off on his own (don't think Venus et al did much), and by specializing it does give extra capacity and focus.

Edited August 11, 2022 by joey_big_nose

[chaddyrovers]

7 hours ago, JoeH said:

WARNING: You will get distracted from what you should be doing today and watch this about 10 times on repeat.

 

 

Beautiful Football to watch. JDT has installed a mentally and style already into these players

[den]

1 hour ago, joey_big_nose said:

To be fair whether you have a great first half then poor second half or vice versa it's the same outcome if you finish 8th. To think anything else is just recency bias. 

Mowbray did okay. 

Only if you don’t look at what happened.

Last season was the first one in 5 years that  promised anything at all. It came from nowhere and disappeared in the worst way possible.

It does matter what actually happened.

[1864roverite]

1 hour ago, joey_big_nose said:

To be fair whether you have a great first half then poor second half or vice versa it's the same outcome if you finish 8th. To think anything else is just recency bias. 

Mowbray did okay. JDT looks like he might be putting something special together or it could be the new manager bounce... will take a couple of months to figure that out. 

But generally everything JDT and co are doing is stuff I like - playing the youth, high intensity, meaningful passing, good tactical defending.

Aside from the personalities involved splitting the three main areas of the club managers role across three qualified people makes sense. JDT - leadership and values; Remy - tactics; Broughton - personnel. Reckon Remy should be looked at as one of the key three individuals.  Mowbray was trying to cover all that off on his own (don't think Venus et al did much), and by specializing it does give extra capacity and focus.

The new manager bounce is normally associated after a mid season sacking! JDT is and has progressed the work ethic and team spirit that we already knew was there and hopefully with the fresh approach and strong backroom will further it even more