v Stoke (h) - Saturday 27th August 3pm

[chaddyrovers]

3 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

He might be but if he wasnt best pleased, then he wouldnt say to the public that he wishes that he could get rid of Benson/Lowe etc either way. Dont be naive.

We have agree to disagree but plenty of head coaches work with the existing staff and just bring in a number 2 with them

5 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Where did I say that I expect instant success?

I think its a fair point to question the way we want to play from an attacking sense especially considering how many times you have mentioned how he wants to play based on what he says.

I think we have been lacking fluency and creativity across the first 6 games and I have seen a real lack of clarity in how we seem to want to go forward, with wins coming down more to occasional individual brilliance and dogged determination to hang on rather than signs of an attacking gameplan being carried out.

There have been lots of occasions of players out of position struggling to impact games that would have led to much more criticism under previous management. I have not seen that fluidity in the final third, I have not seen much in the way of pressing and rarely have we looked like scoring.

Obviously it is very early but it doesnt mean that we cant ask questions.

we scored 3 at Swansea didn't we? 

Also did we not play with movement and fluidity plus did we not press and close down from the front second half? 

[jim mk2]

20 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Absolutely shocking management.

However, clearly decisive and clearing out personnel who Neill doesn't want instead of seemingly forcing the equivalents of Lowe and Benson on to the new manager.  IMO, if only Waggott had such balls then Mowbray, Venus, Lowe and Benson would have been out the door a long time ago.

 

John Coates is a billionaire on the back of the online betting industry so I doubt he has any scruples. 

 

 

 

[BankEnd Rover]

6 minutes ago, Gav said:

In the morning when you read back your posts you’ll probably come to the same conclusion. 
 

So losing the last 2 games means we deserved to loose todays game. That’s what you’ve basically said… How does that work out?

O I agree that we need recruits btw.

Edited August 27, 2022 by BankEnd Rover

[Proudtobeblue&white]

1 hour ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

You’re the third Wharton brother?

I was at least two years older at school, and I can positively say we never had "relations".

[booth]

57 minutes ago, Hasta said:

And as the home team you would expect us to come on strong.

Stoke created better situations throughout the game than we did. They just managed the game. Get infront. Hold.

If @BankEnd Rover thinks we maybe deserved to win that he’s in cuckoo land

The difference was no goalscorer, a defence addled with injuries and players like Buckley strolling about.

Dolan tries with little end product but did cause them problems - he shouldn't be up top though. Dack should be behind the main goal threat, not be the main goal threat. I thought he was very good in the second half.

Someone said if Gallagher had been in the middle instead of Dolan things may have gone better with those balls that Wharton was threading through.

When Smodics went off we were basically last years team, with a Liverpool loanee, minus 10 players from the squad.

[aletheia]

Essentially, that team that lined up first half is a relegation team and the squad is worse than last season. Whose fault or a combination? JDT, his backroom staff, a legacy of Mowbray, injuries, recruitment?

Buckley should give his wages to charity on that performance. Dreadful. JRC is just not good enough. Dack couldn’t fit into the system. Travis was reduced to kicking the drinks on the touchline in frustration.

On the passing around at the back much groaned at by the fans. I get the unease. It’s a manager who has played at a top level trying to get lesser players to play a 2 touch game. Sadly, we don’t have the players. Nothing was sadder than seeing Trav receive a ball from defence with his back to goal, his first touch poor, losing it and having to pull down the opposing player to safe face. (Well, apart from being roasted at right back but to be fair he was far better than JRC.) But also can see it from the manager’s point of view. No Gallagher to run the channels. So no point in lumping it forward –who to Dack? Presumably we all saw the size of the Stoke team. The only option was a quick diagonal to Diaz on the left touchline and it took us the break at half time to get that right. Wharton must have knocked a dozen such excellent passes in the second half. But first half, the 2 touch was not happening, nobody to get down the sides, nobody to go past players with pace, all sub-par tippy/tappy/. And of course, no chance of plan B a la Big Sam because that’s not the philosophy and the personnel to do it not on the pitch.

Having said all that, once we had weathered the initial storm of say 20 mins when we were woeful and they could have scored 3, the only difference was that Kaminski committed a howler for the goal and that as much as we huffed and puffed we couldn’t score. So could easily have been a 0-0.

So. We all know the form, we all know the score. Are we rebuilding? How long will it take? Are we just at the bottom of the cycle? Is this back to League 1 year? Was Brereton just a freak year with his goals? Is JDT another Berg? Will JDT get big backing? Does his ‘black book’ or that of his DOF run to some quality or rabbit out of hats? It has to be said, whoever was responsible for bringing in JVH, Tosin, Elliot did well. Has the club and systems off field really changed or is it business as usual? Treading water again?

Incomings will be crucial. But doesn’t look good at the moment. Looks to me like we are back to the very start or bottom of ‘a journey.’

On the ref. So predictable that he would be a scapegoat for a poor performance. Not going into it but will say generally, 3 things that would make life so much better in the game.

1. Take time keeping out of the hands of the ref all together just like rugby. Someone on the side lines runs the clock –only runs when the ball is in play. Large clock for all to see. Simple. Cut out all aggro. Football is so Neanderthal in comparison to other sports.

2. Yellow card for standing over the ball to stop a free kick.

3. Yellow card for answering back/swearing at ref. (don’t give me the infantile stuff about ‘industrial language is part of a man’s game.’) Answering back, dissent is not tolerated in basketball, rugby and other sports. Incidentally, how refreshing was the women’s football? No stupid aggro off pitch amongst fans, no stupid rolling over feigning injury, no backchat to ref, no kicking the ball away etc etc.

[roversfan99]

5 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

We have agree to disagree but plenty of head coaches work with the existing staff and just bring in a number 2 with them

we scored 3 at Swansea didn't we? 

Also did we not play with movement and fluidity plus did we not press and close down from the front second half? 

We played well tactically but we didnt create much at Swansea and were ruthless with very few chances.

Today in the second half we naturally were looking for a goal and did improve actually playing players in their correct position but we didnt create that many clear cut chances and it was more of a case of attack v defence rather than signs of the managers style.

I have not seen many if any signs of the attacking style you claim Tomasson will play as of yet and there have been cases of him playing players in positions whereby they were ill suited and struggled. Hopefully it will start to piece together ASAP.

[Gav]

7 minutes ago, BankEnd Rover said:

So losing the last 2 games means we deserved to loose todays game. That’s what you’ve basically said… How does that work out?

O I agree that we need recruits btw.

Right now we are not good enough to compete in this division, thats obvious isn't it?

I'm not spoiling for a row BankEnd, but this side isn't good enough, we've lost the last 3 games and been well beaten, never looked like scoring, much of the same will follow if we don't strengthen and quick. 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Gav

[Atko's Engine]

This match is what the phrase "game of 2 halves" was made for. Turgid first half, but what a turnaround in all but the scoreline. 

Kaminski 6 - made some good saves 1st half but shouldn't have conceded the only goal. Had little to do 2nd half.

JRC 2 - that's being generous, though unfortunate to be booked. Looked well lost, is clearly not a RB, Travis played far better there 2nd half than him.  Confidence must be shot, needs a loan out or selling.

Ayala 7 - guilty of overplaying 1st half but did his defensive work fantastically and in all other respects was a rock.

Phillips 7 - his best game, was put under a lot of pressure by dirty Delap & cocky Gayle, but dealt with it well. Like the rest, had a better 2nd half than 1st.

Pickering 6 - did ok, was left isolated a bit and also got caught a couple of times overplaying. Not as bad as some make out, but ought to consider himself at risk of being replaced in the transfer market.

Morton 6 - I think his presence encouraged us to overplay. Was way too slow & negative 1st half but improved in second. Could be a good signing once gets up to speed with the Championship. 

Travis 6 - like everyone else, had a poor first half but ably deputiised at RB 2nd half. Got shown up for pace a couple of times by Campbell, but showed desire & passion that is his trait.

Buckley 3 - poor passing, poor drive, poor decision making, had a very off day & deserved to be hooked. Not having a good season, maybe feels unsettled under new management (first change in his career?)

Szmodics 5 - showed a couple of touches but didn't really get into the game before he was taken off injured. That incident should've been a penalty, the ball had gone so why Flint (?) felt the need to wallop him in the head I don't know.

Dack 6 - poor first half in unfamiliar role, did better 2nd. Was coming too deep to influence play in an attacking sense, but linked up well in 2nd half. Will benefit from 90 mins fitness wise.

BBD 6 - anonymous first half, much better second but poor end product. Likely to be his last game for us, shame he was unable to sign off with a goal.

Subs

Dolan 5 - frustratingly wasteful. Has skill & talent to hurt opponents but makes some poor decisions re not shooting. Should've done better when 1 on1 with defenders on numerous occasions. Is still only 20, hopefully game intelligence will come (like it did with BBD).

Hedges 7 - did v well when he came on, drove at them, pressed, brought others into play. Showed passion & grit that was badly missing 1st half.

Wharton 7 - wow, looks quality, has that languid style with his passing but is also tenacious out of possession. Seems to read the game well, has good vision, wasn't at all overawed. We've got to keep him.

Carter 6 - looked solid enough, can't recall him doing anything wrong & got stuck in when required.

Edun 6 - was only on for 5 mins but showed good attacking instincts compared to Pickering. Wasn't really tested defensively.

JDT 7 - although 1st half was poor & some selections debatable, he had few options given injuries to Gally & Brittain. In his position I'd've played Vale and Dack, with Szmodics on the bench, but he had a right to expect better from JRC & especially Buckley. Was right to hook them both at half time & bring on Hedhes & Wharton, both of whom changed the game. Hindsight suggests they would've been better starting, but that would've been a very brave decision. Way too soon to be critical of JDT imo.

We missed Gallagher's physical presence & energy imo, is v underated the amount of work he gets through, even if his goal return should be better.

Ref was awful. Delap was holding on throughout, pulled BBD's shirt off almost, gave nothing. Szmodics got whacked in the head on the area after the ball had gone, he gave nothing but Szmodics had to go off. Booked JRC for a soft foul early on. Worst of all, in 2nd half missed a clear pen for BBD and then stopped play twice to give us free kicks when, if he'd have let play run on a couple of seconds, we'd have scored 2 goals.

Overall can feel aggrieved at a loss overall, but cannot play like we did for 30 mins & hope to achieve anything of note.

 

[chaddyrovers]

2 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

We played well tactically but we didnt create much at Swansea and were ruthless with very few chances.

Today in the second half we naturally were looking for a goal and did improve actually playing players in their correct position but we didnt create that many clear cut chances and it was more of a case of attack v defence rather than signs of the managers style.

I have not seen many if any signs of the attacking style you claim Tomasson will play as of yet and there have been cases of him playing players in positions whereby they were ill suited and struggled. Hopefully it will start to piece together ASAP.

If you didn't see signs of how JDT wants to play second half of today game then fair enough but I stand by it. 

We had to play a different game plan at Swansea and we did and won. Job done, 3 points and Rovers fans happy

[booth]

1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

We played well tactically but we didnt create much at Swansea and were ruthless with very few chances.

Today in the second half we naturally were looking for a goal and did improve actually playing players in their correct position but we didnt create that many clear cut chances and it was more of a case of attack v defence rather than signs of the managers style.

I have not seen many if any signs of the attacking style you claim Tomasson will play as of yet and there have been cases of him playing players in positions whereby they were ill suited and struggled. Hopefully it will start to piece together ASAP.

I'd say the second half was the best attacking I've seen under JDT, minus goals obviously. Relentless at some points.

I wish the club would sign a feckin' goalscorer.

But if I was JDT I'd be making Wharton at home in that midfield spot. The kid can spot a pass, can tackle, dictate tempo and he covers every area of the pitch. He outshone the Liverpool lad.

And Dack needs to be in the position he ended the game in.

Hedges was brilliant.

 

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

If you didn't see signs of how JDT wants to play second half of today game then fair enough but I stand by it. 

We had to play a different game plan at Swansea and we did and won. Job done, 3 points and Rovers fans happy

I agree that winning is the only important thing, although that doesnt tie in to you criticising other managers because they are "boring." All about results. A mixed bag so far, 3 wins and 3 losses.

I am just yet to see any signs that display the supposed attacking style that the manager is looking to implement. Fluidity, pressing, intensity, interchange, excitement all yet to be seen so far. 

[roversfan99]

3 minutes ago, booth said:

I'd say the second half was the best attacking I've seen under JDT, minus goals obviously. Relentless at some points.

I wish the club would sign a feckin' goalscorer.

But if I was JDT I'd be making Wharton at home in that midfield spot. The kid can spot a pass, can tackle, dictate tempo and he covers every area of the pitch. He outshone the Liverpool lad.

And Dack needs to be in the position he ended the game in.

Hedges was brilliant.

 

Agreed on Dacks position. There were lots more square pegs in square holes in the second half.

We definitely showed more attacking threat but it was more a case of a team attacking against a team wanting to sit back and grind out a result and I dont think their keeper made many if any saves. Parallels to Derby at home last season, an abject first half with weird illogical tactics, 2 subs and a reshuffle to 4231 at half time and a change against a side sitting in, although that night we had more of a genuine threat.

[booth]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Agreed on Dacks position. There were lots more square pegs in square holes in the second half.

We definitely showed more attacking threat but it was more a case of a team attacking against a team wanting to sit back and grind out a result and I dont think their keeper made many if any saves. Parallels to Derby at home last season, an abject first half with weird illogical tactics, 2 subs and a reshuffle to 4231 at half time and a change against a side sitting in, although that night we had more of a genuine threat.

Reading were certainly playing for a 1-0 result but I also think Wharton and Hedges made a massive difference in them not getting out of their own half. Both were very impressive and Dack and Brereton were much improved thanks to their involvement.

[BankEnd Rover]

23 minutes ago, Gav said:

Right now we are not good enough to compete in this division, thats obvious isn't it?

I'm not spoiling for a row BankEnd, but this side isn't good enough, we've lost the last 3 games and been well beaten, never looked like scoring, much of the same will follow if we don't strengthen and quick. 

It’s too easy to criticise when we’re on a poor run but what were people saying when we won the first 3 games!? We know the leagues is full of twist & turns…By gosh Paul Ince’s Reading are top of the league!

I agree that we need recruits and in honesty the transfer market so far has been a shocker…. We need pace & attack at the front in order to meet with JDTs style of play.

The manor of the defeat to Reading & Sheff were terrifying, in fact probably the worst I’ve seen us. It doesn’t mean we should be hanging onto those demons & overshadowing them of what was a positive second half performance today.

You’re judging todays performance off the last 2 games which doesn’t make sense.

 

Edited August 27, 2022 by BankEnd Rover

[Upside Down]

13 minutes ago, Atko's Engine said:

This match is what the phrase "game of 2 halves" was made for. Turgid first half, but what a turnaround in all but the scoreline. 

Kaminski 6 - made some good saves 1st half but shouldn't have conceded the only goal. Had little to do 2nd half.

JRC 2 - that's being generous, though unfortunate to be booked. Looked well lost, is clearly not a RB, Travis played far better there 2nd half than him.  Confidence must be shot, needs a loan out or selling.

Ayala 7 - guilty of overplaying 1st half but did his defensive work fantastically and in all other respects was a rock.

Phillips 7 - his best game, was put under a lot of pressure by dirty Delap & cocky Gayle, but dealt with it well. Like the rest, had a better 2nd half than 1st.

Pickering 6 - did ok, was left isolated a bit and also got caught a couple of times overplaying. Not as bad as some make out, but ought to consider himself at risk of being replaced in the transfer market.

Morton 6 - I think his presence encouraged us to overplay. Was way too slow & negative 1st half but improved in second. Could be a good signing once gets up to speed with the Championship. 

Travis 6 - like everyone else, had a poor first half but ably deputiised at RB 2nd half. Got shown up for pace a couple of times by Campbell, but showed desire & passion that is his trait.

Buckley 3 - poor passing, poor drive, poor decision making, had a very off day & deserved to be hooked. Not having a good season, maybe feels unsettled under new management (first change in his career?)

Szmodics 5 - showed a couple of touches but didn't really get into the game before he was taken off injured. That incident should've been a penalty, the ball had gone so why Flint (?) felt the need to wallop him in the head I don't know.

Dack 6 - poor first half in unfamiliar role, did better 2nd. Was coming too deep to influence play in an attacking sense, but linked up well in 2nd half. Will benefit from 90 mins fitness wise.

BBD 6 - anonymous first half, much better second but poor end product. Likely to be his last game for us, shame he was unable to sign off with a goal.

Subs

Dolan 5 - frustratingly wasteful. Has skill & talent to hurt opponents but makes some poor decisions re not shooting. Should've done better when 1 on1 with defenders on numerous occasions. Is still only 20, hopefully game intelligence will come (like it did with BBD).

Hedges 7 - did v well when he came on, drove at them, pressed, brought others into play. Showed passion & grit that was badly missing 1st half.

Wharton 7 - wow, looks quality, has that languid style with his passing but is also tenacious out of possession. Seems to read the game well, has good vision, wasn't at all overawed. We've got to keep him.

Carter 6 - looked solid enough, can't recall him doing anything wrong & got stuck in when required.

Edun 6 - was only on for 5 mins but showed good attacking instincts compared to Pickering. Wasn't really tested defensively.

JDT 7 - although 1st half was poor & some selections debatable, he had few options given injuries to Gally & Brittain. In his position I'd've played Vale and Dack, with Szmodics on the bench, but he had a right to expect better from JRC & especially Buckley. Was right to hook them both at half time & bring on Hedhes & Wharton, both of whom changed the game. Hindsight suggests they would've been better starting, but that would've been a very brave decision. Way too soon to be critical of JDT imo.

We missed Gallagher's physical presence & energy imo, is v underated the amount of work he gets through, even if his goal return should be better.

Ref was awful. Delap was holding on throughout, pulled BBD's shirt off almost, gave nothing. Szmodics got whacked in the head on the area after the ball had gone, he gave nothing but Szmodics had to go off. Booked JRC for a soft foul early on. Worst of all, in 2nd half missed a clear pen for BBD and then stopped play twice to give us free kicks when, if he'd have let play run on a couple of seconds, we'd have scored 2 goals.

Overall can feel aggrieved at a loss overall, but cannot play like we did for 30 mins & hope to achieve anything of note.

 

When you look at that squad it's amazing that we won the first three games. We still need six players minimum. 

[Boroblue]

3 hours ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

It's as if we've been crap all of 2022.

Wait a minute, we have!

We've carried last season's poor form into this one and I do worry that the management team's lack of EFL nous may cost us dearly in the weeks and months ahead.

On the other hand we will have some new and returning players to call on.

I doubt anyone can call this season, but I will be very surprised if we aren't around the bottom battling for points.

 

 

This is I agree with completely. Sheff Utd was in the same category as Peterborough away and Coventry away. There is something wrong. Maybe it’s character 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Boroblue said:

This is I agree with completely. Sheff Utd was in the same category as Peterborough away and Coventry away. There is something wrong. Maybe it’s character 

Re character - when did we last come from behind to win a game ?

[simongarnerisgod]

Ref was awful. Delap was holding on throughout, pulled BBD's shirt off almost, gave nothing. Szmodics got whacked in the head on the area after the ball had gone, he gave nothing but Szmodics had to go off. Booked JRC for a soft foul early on. Worst of all, in 2nd half missed a clear pen for BBD and then stopped play twice to give us free kicks when, if he'd have let play run on a couple of seconds, we'd have scored 2 goals.

Overall can feel aggrieved at a loss overall, but cannot play like we did for 30 mins & hope to achieve anything of note.

just seen the west brom/huddersfield game,west brom had the clearest penalty you will ever see denied,the standard of officiating in this country is scandalous,every week there are decisions that are easy to make getting turned away because the refs are simply rubbish,there is no accountability either so they get away with it

[Hasta]

42 minutes ago, BankEnd Rover said:

Mate the point here is that we deserved a point…my post covers that. You’ve said we deserved naff all, that means nothing… That’s rubbish…It was a game of two halfs…Did you even go to the game?

 

 I did go to the game. I thought we deserved naff all . And if you went to that game and think we deserved more than a point your in cloud cuckoo land. And thus begins the circle again.

[BankEnd Rover]

2 minutes ago, Hasta said:

 I did go to the game. I thought we deserved naff all . And if you went to that game and think we deserved more than a point your in cloud cuckoo land. And thus begins the circle again.

I wonder if your opinion stays the same if we didn’t come back off 2 losses? I’ve a feeling that your holding onto them as a point of frustration…Hence my post above to Gav. ..Judge each game individually.

[Hasta]

13 minutes ago, BankEnd Rover said:

I wonder if your opinion stays the same if we didn’t come back off 2 losses? I’ve a feeling that your holding onto them as a point of frustration…Hence my post above to Gav. ..Judge each game individually.

You’re a master of deflection I will give you that. So I’ll ask you straight.

Do you think that we possibly deserved more than a point today? Yes or no?

Be careful. Read back what you have already said.

Edited August 27, 2022 by Hasta

[TheKitGuy]

Can I ask, does anyone truly believe JDT is a good manager.. forget all the transfer nonsense. 

Team just looks so out of sorts, rarely creating chances just going through the motions. 

[booth]

It's been 8 games with an injury crisis and a loss of 10 players from the squad.

Do I believe he's a good manager? At this point I haven't a clue.

[Proudtobeblue&white]

A point was the best we could have hoped for after the woeful 1st half. We are lacking any scorers, and BBD out wide is ludicrous. As I've said when he goes we are relegation fodder.