v Millwall (h) 01/10/2022

[arbitro]

1 hour ago, Atko's Engine said:

As I said above there's a time and a place for it, and the players don't always select the right moments. There will be bumps in the road to where we want to get to, isn't that what we were told to expect? Here we are, bumping along in 6th place, 5 points off top!

JDT has had two thirds of a transfer window to get to know his squad, identify upgrades & mould a winning team. In that time he's also had to manage us through 13 games (W8 L5) half of which were before the window shut & when we had a mini defensive injury crisis. I just don't see how folk can be disappointed that we're not rolling teams over 3 or 4 nil every week!

And isn't it the job of a head coach & his team to improve their players, as well as find a system & style that suits them? Ayala I agree is probably too old to improve much, but S Wharton, Kaminski, Pickering & Travis are all young enough to improve on that front (I take the view Hyam & Brittain are already there).  Add to that the growth & further first team integration of Morton, Phillips & A Wharton, more coming through the youth team, & suitable acquisitions in future transfer windows & it can only improve.

Whilst improving, they should be encouraged to practise what they're learning in training in a match situation. That will mean errors of judgment are made (some costly, some not) but that's part of the learning process & overall it should lead to a better long term outcome if implemented correctly.

For me it's risk versus reward and I can't remember under any recent manager where we have scored or even created a chance by trying to play out from deep. It would be far more palatable if when we did it the ball was thrown into wider players. Quite a few times Kaminski has played it to a centrally positioned player who can't turn due to the proximity of a pressing opponent. Yesterday was a prime example and I'm convinced had we conceded first we would have lost. As I say it's risk versus reward.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 minute ago, arbitro said:

For me it's risk versus reward and I can't remember under any recent manager where we have scored or even created a chance by trying to play out from deep. It would be far more palatable if when we did it the ball was thrown into wider players. Quite a few times Kaminski has played it to a centrally positioned player who can't turn due to the proximity of a pressing opponent. Yesterday was a prime example and I'm convinced had we conceded first we would have lost. As I say it's risk versus reward.

Yes, I agree. I call it percentage play. The likelihood of our opponents scoring when we’re passing it around at the back is high. The likelihood of our opponents scoring when it’s in their half is low.

The other down side to all this is that the passing players are usually more or less stood still and the pressing players are going at full speed. Eventually there’s only one winner there.

[Admiral Nelsen]

2 hours ago, Atko's Engine said:

Dolan was composed with his finish & a pest throughout. He gets unwarranted criticism on here for me, people forget he's only 20 & far from a finished product. 

 

 

Good post, but I agree especially about Dolan. I'm definitely guilty of forgetting how young he is - maybe not surprising when he's going to have just shy of 100 league appearances before he turns 21.

 

As much as I liked him for his attitude and obviously the way PNE gave him to us for nothing,  I've always thought it would be difficult for him to really kick on. Players of his stature need to compensate for that with serious ability and/or intelligence if they want to be consistently productive, and it wasn't clear to me that Dolan would be able to get to those levels to properly reach his potential.

 

Still a long way to go, but the rate that he's scoring and creating this year is a big step in the right direction. 

[simongarnerisgod]

there has to be a balance between playing it around the back four and hitting it long from a goalkick,yesterday fannying around at the back nearly ended in disaster a few times,if millwall had`nt come set up for a point we`de have been in serious ****,the time to keep it is when you are winning,we did the opposite,2-0 up and we are giving the ball away,lot of work to do on this team but if you`de said at the start of the season we`de in the top six going into october you would have received some seriously strange looks and remarks about secure units😉,the way it`s going i expect this season to be to soon for the play offs but next season i expect a serious go at promotion,mind you i had big expectations when lambert got the job and look how that ended🙄

[Atko's Engine]

1 hour ago, rigger said:

If you think that performance was acceptable, your standards are a lot lower than mine. Personally I think , if any player on the pitch yesterday, from either side, reached a level of average, then I missed it. 

I think the performance overall was below par, of course it was, though there were still positives to take from it, not least endeavour & successful determination to get 3 points.

We won't steamroller teams regularly 13 games into a new season; some peoples' performance expectations on a consistent basis are still too high imo.  Don't forget, Millwall finished above us last season, as did Luton.

[chaddyrovers]

12 hours ago, Mercer said:

 

 

 

@chaddyroversif Morton and Wharton are very different types of midfielders then they must have different skill sets otherwise they would be the same!  Therefore, I asked you what you thought their strengths were - would love to read your thoughts especially as you seem to prefer Morton.

Yes, you are mistaken in that I have taken in a handful of Rovers' games this season both home and away plus those matches that have been on Sky.

I also asked you which of Buckley, Morton and Wharton would be the most sought after if Rovers were able to put all three up for sale (for argument's sake, assume Morton is our player).  Surprised your response is 'no idea'.  To me it's as blatantly obvious as to who you would take on a dinner date - Liz Truss or Beyonce! - perhaps you'd prefer Liz Truss!?

Mercer, I know who have seen more than enough of both players to form an opinion on the type of player is. For me, 2 very different type of midfielders where Morton is a playmaker where Wharton is more box-to-box type. Wharton is a promising player, but we need to use him and manage his game time where I feel Morton is ready now to have bigger impact. Both are important to how we will perform throughout the season. I thought Morton was good yesterday. 

I have no idea who others would want in those 3. If you do, then fair play to you. 

on your last question, I think you already know my answer to that one and it isn't Beyonce, but that isn't for this thread 

2 hours ago, M_B said:

Looks like the love in for Tomasson has all but disappeared, it didn't take long. Doesn't sound like there are many who still want him to read them a bed time story. 

The bloke's been here 2 minutes, he needs time to do whatever he feels he needs to do. It's just as well we're 6th in the table(joint 4th), we've already had boos at half time yesterday. I can only imagine the stick if we were near the bottom. 

We won playing badly and moved joint 4th in the table, it's a nice message for him to pass on to the players. Let's hope for a better performance but the same result on Tuesday. 

I'm not so sure it has myself from what I seen and watch. Some people haven't moved on from Mowbray like I guy near me who is still mentioning him at every opportunity he can. 

I am very happy with where we are in the league table and I wasn't at this stage of the season being 6th but around mid-table at best 

2 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I wouldn’t say that. I think we’re still getting to know each other. Having said that it’s a bit puzzling that having identified the “ Dutch Disease “ as a way of playing to be avoided he appears to have adopted it.

I wouldn't say it's the Dutch way either. I would it very different to how we played before and with JDT experience as player and coach, he clearly was the players being to play and adapt to different formations but a similar style of play 

45 minutes ago, rigger said:

If you think that performance was acceptable, your standards are a lot lower than mine. Personally I think , if any player on the pitch yesterday, from either side, reached a level of average, then I missed it. 

I would say that the overall performance wasn't great but certain aspects of the play and performance was acceptable. You could see how he wants to play and I think the Hedges at right wing back defensively but attacking wise drifting into the number 10 role. I would say Hedges and Hyam were above average and I gave them 8 out of ten with others receiving 6 or 7. 

[Mattyblue]

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

on your last question, I think you already know my answer to that one and it isn't Beyonce, but that isn't for this thread 

 

I think I speak for everyone in wanting you to open that particular thread…

[Guest]

Have now seen the game back in full. I have said may times that if you give Tyrhys a solid run of games and stick with him even when he's not delivering every time, he'll produce goals. 5 G/A's in 512 minutes this season is a fantastic return. Real value in him if we can nurture him correctly.

[bluebruce]

27 minutes ago, Atko's Engine said:

I think the performance overall was below par, of course it was, though there were still positives to take from it, not least endeavour & successful determination to get 3 points.

We won't steamroller teams regularly 13 games into a new season; some peoples' performance expectations on a consistent basis are still too high imo.  Don't forget, Millwall finished above us last season, as did Luton.

Millwall finished below us actually, albeit only by one GD.

[The Mighty Chaffinch]

Yesterday left many more questions than answers for me. Firstly, why play a back five when the players at wing-back offer next to nothing going forward? Brittain was surely bought to offer that option after years of Nyambe’s inertia. Pickering looked decent going forward when he first arrived (even scoring twice) but has since regressed massively. When we ditched the back five in the second half we looked so much better…and then he reverts back to it when we go 2-0 up…inviting pressure and sending out the wrong signals. The two planned subs should have been scrapped as soon as that goal went in. They didn’t work and handed the initiative to Millwall. The first halves of yesterday, Stoke and Bristol City have been some of the worst 45 minutes of football I’ve seen us play at Ewood in a long while. We create next to nothing whilst racking up the passes in our own final third. It’s hard to watch and their were some justified boos in the JW at half time yesterday. It was a strange feeling leaving Ewood yesterday. We won but I didn’t have the usual buzz I do after a victory. It was a ‘papering over the cracks’ moment for me. My one big positive was the the squad depth which is finally looking above average. The bench was strong yesterday (not that it was used well!) and with the likes of Wharton, Phillips, Mola and Marakandy not involved, for a long time in ages I feel we have genuine depth. All feels a bit weird at the moment!!!!

[bluebruce]

19 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

I think I speak for everyone in wanting you to open that particular thread…

Truly shocking confession from Chaddy there.

[chaddyrovers]

21 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

I think I speak for everyone in wanting you to open that particular thread…

No thanks Matty, I will those threads to others in the particular part of the forum. 

[Mattyblue]

Oh ok, no problem. 👍 

[USABlue]

18 hours ago, rigger said:

Where was Markanday, is he injured ?

I been asking that for a while.

[Exiled in Toronto]

I’m starting to see what I think the manager is up to: this is still the audition phase for the squad as to who can, can’t, will or won’t play how JDT wants us to play. He clearly is no fan of the goalie booting it straight to their centre halves as we have no forwards who can get on the end of punts and not give it away. To my mind, the plan is play it out from the back to encourage the press which stretches the oppositions formations and creates spaces. Then exploit these spaces with fast 1-2 touch play and then overload a point in the back four with three free role forwards.

Of course, as is obvious, some players are passing and others failing the audition. Hedges is by far the one who gets it most, I think because he has such great awareness and really does move the ball fast. Others who I think are assets to the system are Ayala, who is better than I thought at passing through the press to feet, Brittain, Morton and Diaz. Hyam and the Wharton Bros also as the season progresses. Dolan is adapting - not one step-over yesterday and a right  time, right place calmly taken goal. Trav I’m not sure about, but he’s at least not a liability.

The ones I see not being with us long are obvious: Gally is miles off with touch and awareness; Dacky has never been a rule follower in his life - subbed off at half time, benched, then coming on for the last six minutes is a clear as day message: fit in or fuck off. Bucko’s tendency to glide with the ball but sometimes have it nicked off him is what I think cost him his place, he needs to be as quick as Hedges to move the ball but it’ll take time to unlearn five years of Mowbray.

I think the manager has no intention whatsoever of adapting his tactics to suit the current players, he’s going to adapt the players to suit his tactics.

[chaddyrovers]

5 hours ago, rigger said:

If someone gets injured in the warm-ups, then they are not doing them correctly.

anything cos happen in the warmups. So have an extra man there is a sensible and logical decision. 

Joe Hilton also arrived at Ewood Park to warm up with the team later in the pre match warmups. In case Kaminski or Pears got an injury. 

[chaddyrovers]

20 minutes ago, USABlue said:

I been asking that for a while.

he has been playing for the under 21's and he was with the Rovers squad yesterday but was 19th man 

[RoversTilliDie]

It took an half time talk from JDT to get Rovers going in the second half. Great to see some fantastic long balls pin pointed. It was a carbon copy of the Watford game, Rovers took their foot off the gas and let Millwall back in it the last twenty minutes and nearly paid the price. Overall I am happy with Rovers progress and great to see us back to full strength nearly.

[joey_big_nose]

The way I'd sum us up now is if we can sort out the final pass we should make playoffs. Reckon we'll do it. Just need to get Dack/Buckley/Adam Wharton into the midfield and make it work.

Were not in a false position, we've played some good teams. Just need to keep refining. Winning games while not playing particularly well is a good sign, not a bad one. Shows we've got more to come.

[Atko's Engine]

3 hours ago, bluebruce said:

Millwall finished below us actually, albeit only by one GD.

I stand corrected, you're right, although they could still have crept into the top 6 on the last day whereas our match was a dead rubber.

That said, my point still stands re Millwall being a tougher but to crack than some give credit for.

[tomphil]

4 hours ago, simongarnerisgod said:

there has to be a balance between playing it around the back four and hitting it long from a goalkick,yesterday fannying around at the back nearly ended in disaster a few times,if millwall had`nt come set up for a point we`de have been in serious ****,the time to keep it is when you are winning,we did the opposite,2-0 up and we are giving the ball away,lot of work to do on this team but if you`de said at the start of the season we`de in the top six going into october you would have received some seriously strange looks and remarks about secure units😉,the way it`s going i expect this season to be to soon for the play offs but next season i expect a serious go at promotion,mind you i had big expectations when lambert got the job and look how that ended🙄

Having been able to replace Lenihen and Nyambe with good cash buys plus the good young players we and still holding onto the likes of Dack and BBD imo we really need to be having a go this season.

A load more will probably leave in summer and they'll need replacing with little or no money so i'd be aiming for the top 6 this season. JDT is a young ambitious coach and he's come into a club finishing 8th last season and been backed to replace some of those who left.

They need to put top 6 aspirations before the need to get mins and value into players otherwise we'll never get near it.

Edited October 2, 2022 by tomphil

[R0verb0y]

7 hours ago, M_B said:

Looks like the love in for Tomasson has all but disappeared, it didn't take long. Doesn't sound like there are many who still want him to read them a bed time story. 

The bloke's been here 2 minutes, he needs time to do whatever he feels he needs to do. It's just as well we're 6th in the table(joint 4th), we've already had boos at half time yesterday. I can only imagine the stick if we were near the bottom. 

We won playing badly and moved joint 4th in the table, it's a nice message for him to pass on to the players. Let's hope for a better performance but the same result on Tuesday. 

I hold onto the comments JDT made on that "glad confident morning" when he arrived. Namely, that we were "a Project" which would take three or four transfer windows to get to where he wants us to be.

January '23 will be the first of those; let's see who we get - and get rid of - then.

[jim mk2]

5 minutes ago, R0verb0y said:

I hold onto the comments JDT made on that "glad confident morning" when he arrived. Namely, that we were "a Project" which would take three or four transfer windows to get to where he wants us to be.

The dreaded "Project" word. The poor old Wolves manager had one of those until today

[Hasta]

4 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

I think the manager has no intention whatsoever of adapting his tactics to suit the current players, he’s going to adapt the players to suit his tactics.

And in my opinion that is why he will fail.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, jim mk2 said:

The dreaded "Project" word. The poor old Wolves manager had one of those until today

Two very different club at different stages and Wolves will be concerned about Relegation and losing their best players. Rovers have a plan/project to get us to PL and keep us there. 

3 minutes ago, Hasta said:

And in my opinion that is why he will fail.

Why that? He is shaping the squad into how he wants to play and anyone who won't fit that model will be gone.