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He has a couple of lines through the rest of the article On Alf Ramsay: ’He didn’t know the players like Walter Winterbottom, he was a bit naive at first. To be honest, the lads took the pis

Great piece in The Times today talking to England players from 1954 until 2014. Bryan Douglas talks about ‘58 and ‘62. It’s probably behind a paywall, so:      

Bullshit. They were nasty and tried every dirty trick in the book. Got what they deserved - out. 

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Just now, Audax said:

Arbitro:

Can the VAR room rule one way and the referee reject it? It almost seems that happened in the Egyptian/Saudi match. Thanks.

 

Yes the referee can disagree with the VAR but it will be a brave referee who does that. I said last week that once an incident is referred by VAR as a clear and obvious error the on field referee will be under huge pressure to go against their advice.

 

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VAR certainly isn’t making the game as sterile as it was feared by some. :lol: 

However, a bad referee will still be a bad referee even with a better tool at his disposal. And tonight’s candidate was a duck egg.

What doesn’t help though is that the referee is not being given a view of the most conclusive angle to base his decision on.

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So I’ve said from the start that I think VAR has been good this tournament - that brings us to today, firstly Ronaldo penalty, good decision, red card - good decision, Iran penalty - shambolic.

The problem that I see emerging is refs are using it as a safety net and constantly checking, the clear and obvious error line is being lost already.

The tech could work but refs need to be stronger and better - but if they were then we would have never needed it.

Used when appropriate this could work, as it is it’s far to prevelant and nearly every incident that half was referred.

At the same time it just allowed a perfectly good goal for Spain that would have been ruled out otherwise.

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The officials just don't seem to understand how VAR is supposed to work. They're using it for slightly contentious decisions rather than clear and obvious errors. Yes it's new and things won't go perfectly as a result, but as Shearer just pointed out, should they be trialling a system officials clearly don't fully understand at the most important tournament in world football? 

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3 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

 

Iran could/should have won that in the last 2 minutes. That miss will haunt their player for the rest of his life - assuming the Supreme Leader doesn't throw him in jail

Iraq athletes still celebrating that lunatic Uday Hussein's death.

Was P Neville commentating on this and Ronaldo's dive? Other day his nauseating "get up, get up" to some other player (can't remember who) bet he wouldn't have mentioned this. I would have thought cheating against Iran was beneath his dignity and by that I mean embarrassing on an ego level not integrity. ?

Did they show that thrilling footage of people staring at screens in the VAR room again? They could at least have some humor and make it look like something of a Bond villain HQ with gigantic screens all over the place. Maybe some hot lava (as if there's any other kind)

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Just now, Vinjay17 said:

Iraq athletes still celebrating that lunatic Uday Hussein's death.

Was P Neville commentating on this and Ronaldo's dive? Other day his nauseating "get up, get up" to some other player (can't remember who) bet he wouldn't have mentioned this. I would have thought cheating against Iran was beneath his dignity and by that I mean embarrassing on an ego level not integrity. ?

Highly illuminating post - what does it mean ? 

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Just now, Tom said:

So I’ve said from the start that I think VAR has been good this tournament - that brings us to today, firstly Ronaldo penalty, good decision, red card - good decision, Iran penalty - shambolic.

The problem that I see emerging is refs are using it as a safety net and constantly checking, the clear and obvious error line is being lost already.

The tech could work but refs need to be stronger and better - but if they were then we would have never needed it.

Used when appropriate this could work, as it is it’s far to prevelant and nearly every incident that half was referred.

At the same time it just allowed a perfectly good goal for Spain that would have been ruled out otherwise.

What FIFA are trying to do Tom is turn the decision making process in football into an exact science but that can never, ever happen. The vast majority of VAR referrals and ultimately decisions are still based on opinion not fact. I disagree with the Portugal penalty but you think it was one. Who is correct? The game has been around for well over 100 years and has managed by giving autonomy to the referee and his assistants to make decisions. It is farcical in my opinion. (but my opinion isn't fact) ?.

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I was watching both games and both of them became a total farce at the end, one decision was right, one was wrong, im in no doubt that it will increase the number of correct decisions (although there will still be that controversy) but you just have to weigh up and for me, its not worth it when you see examples tonight.

Taking that joy away at times that you get from scoring a goal by making everyone wait a few minutes hypothetically.

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Just now, Hasta said:

6 minutes injury time added. Then it takes 3 minutes to review VAR and for penalty to be taken.

Game ends on 97 minutes.

Farce.

And the Portugal sub waited 2 minutes to come on while the player he replaced ambled off the field 

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6 minutes ago, Stuart said:

VAR certainly isn’t making the game as sterile as it was feared by some. :lol: 

However, a bad referee will still be a bad referee even with a better tool at his disposal. And tonight’s candidate was a duck egg.

What doesn’t help though is that the referee is not being given a view of the most conclusive angle to base his decision on.

Except now there's more than one bad referee.

May as well let fan-zone ref a match next. ?

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Just now, Husky said:

Except now there's more than one bad referee.

May as well let fan-zone ref a match next. ?

Maybe Fifa are planning on a phone in on Var decisions like X factor. Premium rate numbers most votes get the decision.

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4 minutes ago, arbitro said:

What FIFA are trying to do Tom is turn the decision making process in football into an exact science but that can never, ever happen. The vast majority of VAR referrals and ultimately decisions are still based on opinion not fact. I disagree with the Portugal penalty but you think it was one. Who is correct? The game has been around for well over 100 years and has managed by giving autonomy to the referee and his assistants to make decisions. It is farcical in my opinion. (but my opinion isn't fact) ?.

I won’t be sad to see it go, just think there’s potential if used right.

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22 minutes ago, Tom said:

I won’t be sad to see it go, just think there’s potential if used right.

Looking ahead to when the blazers in Geneva sit down post World Cup to decide whether or not VAR has been a success will be a fait accompli as these are the people who decided to use it pretty much untried in the first instance. In their unfeeling way they will hide behind some manufactured statistics designed to show it was successful.

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One commentator was saying that Iran indeed missed a gifted goal attempt there at the end, where the Iranian, Taremi,  missed it. I'd say, granted, he should have made it but I don't think it was that easy. Maybe it was. I go to that Iranian forum just to see reactions (not a member, some profanity) some blame him, some seem to take it in stride   http://www.persianfootball.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?46-Persian-Football-Discussion-Community 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Audax said:

One commentator was saying that Iran indeed missed a gifted goal attempt there at the end, where the Iranian, Taremi,  missed it. I'd say, granted, he should have made it but I don't think it was that easy. Maybe it was. I go to that Iranian forum just to see reactions (not a member, some profanity) some blame him, some seem to take it in stride   http://www.persianfootball.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?46-Persian-Football-Discussion-Community 

 

 

I agree..wasnt centre of the goal..more a half/full chance..as for iran's penalty, very harsh but some are given, some arent.

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I think potentially the best route out of this is to set out a clear rule that says the referee cannot request VAR, he only gets notified and has to review. Any players who asks him to go to VAR gets booked. That should stop the players following him around, and also kill off this issue of he ref beginning to doubt himself and requesting to go to VAR all the time.

It's up to the full kit VAR room guys to buzz the ref immediately if something is clearly and obviously incorrect. Then the ref is obliged to review the video and remake the call.

Bosh done. If you take it out of the refs hands it cleans a lot of the indecision out. But absolutely key is the VAR room can only invoke it for something clearly incorrect.

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5 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

 

Bosh done. If you take it out of the refs hands it cleans a lot of the indecision out. But absolutely key is the VAR room can only invoke it for something clearly incorrect.

Bosh, and now Fifa basically control each game.  We are on the road to ruining the game by Fifa and UEFA wanting control over everything.  That guy wasn't giving the penalty tonight, then 4 people in a room who are probably his bosses whisper into his ear that he better look at something.  I'm telling you mate, most will take the advice and not go against 4 of his bosses and just go with the majority.  You could see tonight when he went over to the screen looking at the Cedric incident, there was somebody basically slowing the replay down for him so he could see the handlball clearly....they were trying to convince him by editing the video.  Road to ruin.

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Just now, Sparks Rover said:

 

Bosh, and now Fifa basically control each game.  We are on the road to ruining the game by Fifa and UEFA wanting control over everything.  That guy wasn't giving the penalty tonight, then 4 people in a room who are probably his bosses whisper into his ear that he better look at something.  I'm telling you mate, most will take the advice and not go against 4 of his bosses and just go with the majority.  You could see tonight when he went over to the screen looking at the Cedric incident, there was somebody basically slowing the replay down for him so he could see the handlball clearly....they were trying to convince him by editing the video.  Road to ruin.

Well yes if the four blokes in a room are biased we have a problem. But then isn't that just as valid with 1 bloke on a pitch? Why would that be any less biased? 

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7 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

I think potentially the best route out of this is to set out a clear rule that says the referee cannot request VAR, he only gets notified and has to review. Any players who asks him to go to VAR gets booked. That should stop the players following him around, and also kill off this issue of he ref beginning to doubt himself and requesting to go to VAR all the time.

It's up to the full kit VAR room guys to buzz the ref immediately if something is clearly and obviously incorrect. Then the ref is obliged to review the video and remake the call.

Bosh done. If you take it out of the refs hands it cleans a lot of the indecision out. But absolutely key is the VAR room can only invoke it for something clearly incorrect.

That is the process now. The VAR constantly review incidents involving every goal, sending off, penalties and mistaken identity. If the VAR feels there has been a clear and obvious error in any of these then the on field referee is advised to look at the pitch side screen. As I have said before once an incident is sent for review only an extremely brave referee will go against the advice of the VAR.

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