Pears/ Kaminski.. summer plans?

[Upside Down]

12 hours ago, philipl said:

We all remember and cherish some of the sensational saves Kaminski has pulled off. I think those memories are blinding us to the fact that there were quite a few goals let in during the season just gone which TK shouldn't have let in.

I think it is much more nuanced as to who is the best keeper between Pears and TK.

Had you asked me after that Wigan FA Cup defeat, I would have also argued it was nuanced as to who was the best keeper between Pears and me, and for that matter, I could have offered myself as the better central defender after one particular Hayden Carter "performance" three years ago...

Real players develop.

Pears has the advantage of years on his side to become much better and he doesn't scare me in the way TK does when we are kicking it around at the back to bring on a high press creating space upfield.

Not much nuance there. You could have hammered a stick in the ground on the goal line for that game and the stick would have turned in a better performance. 

Edited May 20, 2023 by Upside Down

[tomphil]

The issue was never really Pears getting his contract extension hes earned it and most acknowledge that.

The issue was where did this leave TK and most will acknowledge going off the past 2 or 3 years not a few months that he is clearly the best keeper.

So now at least GB has spoke up about it and it's obvious that they would like an offer for either but until then they duke it out for number 1.  That's the correct way to go about it as nobody in their right mind would want Kaminsky squeezing out just for the sake of a few hundred grand and the previous no 2 having a few decent months.

[rigger]

Very few successful teams get rid of their best keeper. The team is number one.

[K-Hod]

1 hour ago, philipl said:

We all remember and cherish some of the sensational saves Kaminski has pulled off. I think those memories are blinding us to the fact that there were quite a few goals let in during the season just gone which TK shouldn't have let in.

I think it is much more nuanced as to who is the best keeper between Pears and TK.

Had you asked me after that Wigan FA Cup defeat, I would have also argued it was nuanced as to who was the best keeper between Pears and me, and for that matter, I could have offered myself as the better central defender after one particular Hayden Carter "performance" three years ago...

Real players develop.

Pears has the advantage of years on his side to become much better and he doesn't scare me in the way TK does when we are kicking it around at the back to bring on a high press creating space upfield.

Pears might be able to pass it about at the back better, but, if the players give it away further up the field and there’s a 1 on 1, I’d much rather Kaminski was in that situation than Pears…

[Sweaty Gussets]

I would summarise last season thus:-

TK's best performances were better than anything Pears produced.

TK's worst performances were worse than anything Pears produced. 

Sell them both 🙂 

[wilsdenrover]

3 hours ago, Ulrich said:

So we've committed several hundred grand to retain a tenner? No one's paying money for Pears. Maybe we should try that approach with our players who have real financial value 👍

To be fair, we have renewed a significant amount of contracts during the course of thIs season.

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, philipl said:

We all remember and cherish some of the sensational saves Kaminski has pulled off. I think those memories are blinding us to the fact that there were quite a few goals let in during the season just gone which TK shouldn't have let in.

I think it is much more nuanced as to who is the best keeper between Pears and TK.

Had you asked me after that Wigan FA Cup defeat, I would have also argued it was nuanced as to who was the best keeper between Pears and me, and for that matter, I could have offered myself as the better central defender after one particular Hayden Carter "performance" three years ago...

Real players develop.

Pears has the advantage of years on his side to become much better and he doesn't scare me in the way TK does when we are kicking it around at the back to bring on a high press creating space upfield.

Quite the opposite. Many people seem to be suffering from recency bias in an attempt to justify a transfer before it has happened.

Quite a few goals? Up until the new year, Kaminski was the best keeper in the league, he kept us in many games with fantastic games in a way that Pears has never done, the general performances at that time were poor and Brereton's goals and Kaminski's saves led to us getting many wins that we wouldn't have got without them. Quite a few goals he let in that he shouldn't? There were a couple during his wobble in January, his biggest 2 errors came against Birmingham in the last game before his injury and against Rotherham in the third to last game before his injury. He then broke down in training a day or two after and Tomasson said that he had been struggling for a few weeks with the problem.

There is a clear disparity IMO (and many others) between them in terms of saving shots, if you are into your stats, @Mellor Rover pointed out that there are 4.5 goals between them in terms of expected saves. If you aren't, I saw with my eyes that Pears has not won us points like Kaminski has. The alternative argument is that Pears is better with his feet, even if you assume that both skills are equally as important, and I don't think that is the case, the disparity between the two is nowhere near as big as it is in terms of saving shots. And then there is a third area, command of the penalty box which Kaminski is again far superior at. Many times in the run in, there was indecision between Pears and his defence that led to unncessary set pieces being given away from nothing. In the last 2 games, Pears made a big error against Luton where he was nowhere and Luton hit the bar, and then the second goal at Millwall was a result of that lack of communication and faith in him from his defence, Pears came charging out and Pickering panicked and it led to a goal.

[philipl]

3 hours ago, Upside Down said:

Not much nance there. You could have hammered a stick in the ground on the goal line for that game and the stick would have turned in a better performance. 

Stick in the ground was about my level at my best...

[Ulrich]

4 hours ago, goozburger said:

I agree with everything that @Neal said about Pears. I think he gets unfair stick on here, probably because he was a Mowbray 'Boro connection signing, but I can certainly see the potential and future value in him. I like him, although there is much to improve.

He has made some right clangers in his time here. He seems to have improved but him being in the team coincided with our worst form period last season, TK saves shots that Pears cannot. I'm really reluctant to see us drop the GK quality for better ball play.

2 hours ago, wilsdenrover said:

To be fair, we have renewed a significant amount of contracts during the course of thIs season.

It's an issue we need to ensure does not remain so dominate with valuable players. We've lost a good 20m in fees the last few seasons, money like that is not something we can afford to lose.

[Mattyblue]

He’s ok, and that’s fine for  back up keeper. However, we are quite right to think ‘ok’ is not what you want to be going into a tough Championship season with in such a key position, especially when you have a far superior keeper already in the squad.

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

the second goal at Millwall was a result of that lack of communication and faith in him from his defence, Pears came charging out and Pickering panicked and it led to a goal.

You are wrong there cos Sky Sports shown that Pears shouted at Pickering and still Pickering went for the ball. So Pears isn't at fault for that. Any keeper need to have a clear communication with his defenders and team mates

[MarkBRFC]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

You are wrong there cos Sky Sports shown that Pears shouted at Pickering and still Pickering went for the ball. So Pears isn't at fault for that. Any keeper need to have a clear communication with his defenders and team mates

Or if Pears reads his surrounding area better he stays on his line and Pickering just nods it back to him.

Personally think Pears caused all that confusion by rushing out and shouting at what appeared to be the last minute.

[Dreams of 1995]

I’ve played defensive midfield / centre back all of my playing career. Any coach will tell you that you listen to the keepers shout and if you don’t you be sure you hit Row Z
People trying to put some blame on Pears for that Milwall goal are desperate to pin something else on him for this current Kaminski vs Pears debate 

The footage was clear. Pears shouted as loud as he could, was running onto the ball, and Pickering should have left him to clear it. The move would have been dead in the water from that point 

That goal was Pickerings fault

[rigger]

10 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

Or if Pears reads his surrounding area better he stays on his line and Pickering just nods it back to him.

Personally think Pears caused all that confusion by rushing out and shouting at what appeared to be the last minute.

So Pears it would seem does not instill confidence into his defenders

[roversfan99]

31 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

You are wrong there cos Sky Sports shown that Pears shouted at Pickering and still Pickering went for the ball. So Pears isn't at fault for that. Any keeper need to have a clear communication with his defenders and team mates

Pickering takes at least as much blame, 100%. But that sort of goal was in the pipeline for weeks, there have been numerous occasions of misunderstandings when the ball has gone in behind, Pears often half coming out and leaving nervous moments. Kaminski gives his defenders more confidence.

You are very keen on data etc. What do you think to the stats that the difference between Kaminski and Pears in terms of expected saves is 4.5 goals this season in Kaminski's favourite.

[chaddyrovers]

51 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

Or if Pears reads his surrounding area better he stays on his line and Pickering just nods it back to him.

Personally think Pears caused all that confusion by rushing out and shouting at what appeared to be the last minute.

If a keeper shouts for the ball then you leave it for him to deal it. I was keeper in my younger days of playing and I would expect my defenders to leave the ball for my deal with if 

21 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Pickering takes at least as much blame, 100%. But that sort of goal was in the pipeline for weeks, there have been numerous occasions of misunderstandings when the ball has gone in behind, Pears often half coming out and leaving nervous moments. Kaminski gives his defenders more confidence.

Pickering takes all the blame, Pears shouts for the ball, so Pickering should leave it. My opinion is based on being a keeper in my younger days not a great standard but it was my position in football. 

21 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

You are very keen on data etc. What do you think to the stats that the difference between Kaminski and Pears in terms of expected saves is 4.5 goals this season in Kaminski's favourite.

I am keen on data aswell as scouting live at games just as much as data cos he can see more whether the communicate or what happen when something bad happens like mistake leading to a goal or bad miss from a striker. 

I haven't seen that stat. where is it? was it posted on here? 

[roversfan99]

8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

If a keeper shouts for the ball then you leave it for him to deal it. I was keeper in my younger days of playing and I would expect my defenders to leave the ball for my deal with if 

Pickering takes all the blame, Pears shouts for the ball, so Pickering should leave it. My opinion is based on being a keeper in my younger days not a great standard but it was my position in football. 

I am keen on data aswell as scouting live at games just as much as data cos he can see more whether the communicate or what happen when something bad happens like mistake leading to a goal or bad miss from a striker. 

I haven't seen that stat. where is it? was it posted on here? 

Please see below.

I am a cynic of such stats, I think there are a lot of holes in them, but that is a big difference which doesn't surprise me, as purely from seeing them, Kaminski kept us in far more games with saves he wasn't entitled to make, Pears isn't a match winner.

21 hours ago, Mellor Rover said:

Bollocks

Kaminski conceded 3.1 goals less than expected from the shots he faced, Pears conceded 1.5 MORE than expected. No comparison between the two.

 

[chaddyrovers]

47 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I am a cynic of such stats, I think there are a lot of holes in them, but that is a big difference which doesn't surprise me, as purely from seeing them, Kaminski kept us in far more games with saves he wasn't entitled to make, Pears isn't a match winner.

thanks for the stats. I like stats but also like using my eyes. We aren't going to agree on Pears vs Kaminski debate so lets just agree tom disagree on it and leave it there

[Hasta]

It’s not black and white. If a ball comes into the box and the keeper calls the defender has to leave it. In that instance the defender is aware that there’s a good chance the keeper is coming.

However Pickering is in no way expecting a shout at all at Millwall. Why would the keeper be 5 years outside his area and heading the ball away when Pickering has the situation control? He’s probably deciding whether to try and control it, or head it back, when at the last second he gets a bizarre call from Pears and has to make an absolute split second decision. Of course he should then leave it and if Pears heads it into danger so be it. But he decides to try and take control of the situation and it goes wrong.

  The confusion in what is a simple situation is caused by Pears making a rash decision to come out when there is absolutely no need. But Pickering should heed the call. Both at fault.

Edited May 20, 2023 by Hasta

[MarkBRFC]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

If a keeper shouts for the ball then you leave it for him to deal it. I was keeper in my younger days of playing and I would expect my defenders to leave the ball for my deal with if 

 

Pickering was.already dealing with it before Pears comes charging off his line. He communicates too late, I thought that at the game and seen on replays on TV that he clearly shouts and reacts too late.

If Pears reads the play better he just let's Pickering nod it back to him.

 

[Bbrovers2288]

39 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

Pickering was.already dealing with it before Pears comes charging off his line. He communicates too late, I thought that at the game and seen on replays on TV that he clearly shouts and reacts too late.

If Pears reads the play better he just let's Pickering nod it back to him.

 

Absolutely, shouts when he is jumped in the air, far too late, which then leads to Pickering panicking as he gets mixed between dealing and leaving it, what happens was a mess. Both at fault but I’m not having that pears was blameless. I said I’m the weeks before it that pears is a poor communicator with his defence, wasn’t the first time that there was a near catastrophe at the back with defenders not knowing pears intentions 

[goozburger]

 

[wilsdenrover]

3 hours ago, goozburger said:

 

How is goals prevented measured?

[Ulrich]

1 hour ago, wilsdenrover said:

How is goals prevented measured?

With a ruler?

Is there not a strong element of subjectivity in how this data is collected? Joe? 

[goozburger]

Kaminski second in line for the Belgium number one jersey. On the bench.