Jon Dahl Tomasson - Officially No Longer Our Head Coach

[Mattyblue]

The results were more than fine until December 2023. Obviously no question it went sour very quickly post then.

[DE.]

JDT did well in his first season. Obviously the second half of 22/23 was pretty galling, but when you've got a squad filled with weak-minded players it's somewhat inevitable. We also had our main goalscorer totally lose form after Christmas and stop scoring, which was a hammerblow to our chances of keeping up with the teams around us. 

This season we were doing fine until November, at which point injuries crippled us and the proverbial chickens came home to roost insofar as our dismal recruitment and financial cutbacks are concerned. The players seemed to lose faith and confidence (doesn't take much with this lot) and we went on a huge downward spiral. JDT was either unable or unwilling to change how we played to try and shore up, so we were just conceding ridiculous amounts of goals with no end in sight. The manager's position had become untenable by January as seemingly the "senior committee" of players had lost their trust in him and the relationship between JDT and the higher-ups was irrevocably fractured. It probably had been since the summer when he first offered his resignation. 

I think we only got to see glimpses of what was possible under JDT as he wasn't suitably backed for the project he had signed up for. I'm sure he was clear on what he saw as requirements to succeed before he was appointed, so that's on the owners and upper management if they were not able to commit to the manager's vision during the course of his contract. Obviously things can change financially, but at that point JDT did the right thing and offered to leave and the owners stubbornly refused to let him go. Again, that's completely their fault. Nobody with a modicum of sense would force the manager to stay in that scenario. 

JDT was never the problem, and the truth is neither is Eustace. The owners have always been and will always be the problem. They aren't capable of running this club properly and they've had long enough to prove otherwise. Until they go we are stuffed no matter who comes in. At best treading water in the Championship, at worst hurtling down the leagues if things really do start to unravel.  

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

10 minutes ago, DE. said:

JDT did well in his first season. Obviously the second half of 22/23 was pretty galling, but when you've got a squad filled with weak-minded players it's somewhat inevitable. We also had our main goalscorer totally lose form after Christmas and stop scoring, which was a hammerblow to our chances of keeping up with the teams around us. 

This season we were doing fine until November, at which point injuries crippled us and the proverbial chickens came home to roost insofar as our dismal recruitment and financial cutbacks are concerned. The players seemed to lose faith and confidence (doesn't take much with this lot) and we went on a huge downward spiral. JDT was either unable or unwilling to change how we played to try and shore up, so we were just conceding ridiculous amounts of goals with no end in sight. The manager's position had become untenable by January as seemingly the "senior committee" of players had lost their trust in him and the relationship between JDT and the higher-ups was irrevocably fractured. It probably had been since the summer when he first offered his resignation. 

I think we only got to see glimpses of what was possible under JDT as he wasn't suitably backed for the project he had signed up for. I'm sure he was clear on what he saw as requirements to succeed before he was appointed, so that's on the owners and upper management if they were not able to commit to the manager's vision during the course of his contract. Obviously things can change financially, but at that point JDT did the right thing and offered to leave and the owners stubbornly refused to let him go. Again, that's completely their fault. Nobody with a modicum of sense would force the manager to stay in that scenario. 

JDT was never the problem, and the truth is neither is Eustace. The owners have always been and will always be the problem. They aren't capable of running this club properly and they've had long enough to prove otherwise. Until they go we are stuffed no matter who comes in. At best treading water in the Championship, at worst hurtling down the leagues if things really do start to unravel.  

10/10

[arbitro]

I was told last night that on the last day of the window Pasha and Waggott arranged a loan deal for a player Tomasson rated behind his back. Tomasson got wind of this and asked the player who told him it was true but he was of the understanding that Tomasson had agreed to it. Tomasson went ballistic at those two and went to town on them, it was said to me that it was the straw that broke the camel's back. Being the cowards that are they were scared they would be called out in his press conference the day before the QPR game and stopped him doing it. This ties in with the 'ask Steve and Pasha' comment after the QPR game.

And Broughton knew nothing of this scurrilous deal.

I was told the name of the player but it would be unfair to name him.

 

[RevidgeBlue]

6 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I was told last night that on the last day of the window Pasha and Waggott arranged a loan deal for a player Tomasson rated behind his back. Tomasson got wind of this and asked the player who told him it was true but he was of the understanding that Tomasson had agreed to it. Tomasson went ballistic at those two and went to town on them, it was said to me that it was the straw that broke the camel's back. Being the cowards that are they were scared they would be called out in his press conference the day before the QPR game and stopped him doing it. This ties in with the 'ask Steve and Pasha' comment after the QPR game.

And Broughton knew nothing of this scurrilous deal.

I was told the name of the player but it would be unfair to name him.

 

Of all the things JDT could be aggrieved about that doesn't sound like it should be very high up the list.

Why would he be upset about a loan deal being arranged for a player he rated?

And also difficult to believe this player wouldnt have been an improvement on the players we did end up with who Broughton presumably did sign?

Plus as we used to keep getting told, he was a head Coach and not a manager so wouldn't have had the sole say on incomings.

[JHRover]

12 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I was told last night that on the last day of the window Pasha and Waggott arranged a loan deal for a player Tomasson rated behind his back. Tomasson got wind of this and asked the player who told him it was true but he was of the understanding that Tomasson had agreed to it. Tomasson went ballistic at those two and went to town on them, it was said to me that it was the straw that broke the camel's back. Being the cowards that are they were scared they would be called out in his press conference the day before the QPR game and stopped him doing it. This ties in with the 'ask Steve and Pasha' comment after the QPR game.

And Broughton knew nothing of this scurrilous deal.

I was told the name of the player but it would be unfair to name him.

 

These kind of slippery underhand maneouvurings are no surprise at all to me. I'm convinced that a number of Mowbray's signings were arranged without his input or involvement.

Why though, if Tomasson rated the player, would they be so sneaky about it?

[MarkBRFC]

3 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Of all the things JDT could be aggrieved about that doesn't sound like it should be very high up the list.

Why would he be upset about a loan deal being arranged for a player he rated?

And also difficult to believe this player wouldnt have been an improvement on the players we did end up with who Broughton presumably did sign?

Plus as we used to keep getting told, he was a head Coach and not a manager so wouldn't have had the sole say on incomings.

Guessing it was an out going player, and with the squad thin enough as it is why would he want someone else leaving?

[Glosrover]

29 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I was told last night that on the last day of the window Pasha and Waggott arranged a loan deal for a player Tomasson rated behind his back. Tomasson got wind of this and asked the player who told him it was true but he was of the understanding that Tomasson had agreed to it. Tomasson went ballistic at those two and went to town on them, it was said to me that it was the straw that broke the camel's back. Being the cowards that are they were scared they would be called out in his press conference the day before the QPR game and stopped him doing it. This ties in with the 'ask Steve and Pasha' comment after the QPR game.

And Broughton knew nothing of this scurrilous deal.

I was told the name of the player but it would be unfair to name him.

 

loan in, or loan with outgoing player?? - sorry just seen someone else ask exactly that.......Doh

Edited March 21 by Glosrover
repetition

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

13 minutes ago, Glosrover said:

loan in, or loan with outgoing player?? - sorry just seen someone else ask exactly that.......Doh

Sounds like a loan out.

[arbitro]

38 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Of all the things JDT could be aggrieved about that doesn't sound like it should be very high up the list.

Why would he be upset about a loan deal being arranged for a player he rated?

And also difficult to believe this player wouldnt have been an improvement on the players we did end up with who Broughton presumably did sign?

Plus as we used to keep getting told, he was a head Coach and not a manager so wouldn't have had the sole say on incomings.

I think you have got the wrong end of the stick. It was a Rovers player being loaned out.

 

[arbitro]

11 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Sounds like a loan out.

It was. Well done for joining the dots 😂

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

10 minutes ago, arbitro said:

It was. Well done for joining the dots 😂

It’s outrageous that things like that can happen behind the managers back ! No wonder he was pissed off. We’ll never get anywhere whilst we’re owned by these idiots but I’m not telling you anything you don’t already know.

[RevidgeBlue]

1 hour ago, arbitro said:

I think you have got the wrong end of the stick. It was a Rovers player being loaned out.

 

Ah right. No wonder he went ballistic then. On top of the Mcguire shitshow as well.

[den]

I originally thought Arbitro was talking about an incoming loan.

Im far from convinced that the player recruitment is either set up correctly or has the right personnel involved. It seems as though the manager has no say in player recruitment. Of course scouting players in modern day football can’t be as it used to be. No manager anywhere can be expected to know everything about who’s available, at what price etc. He can’t be expected to know everything about every player.

To me though, it seems that the manager here just outlines the positions that need filling and the player just turns up. Well at most clubs they turn up - but not necessarily here. 
 

Im not convinced that the system is set up right to get the right players in, nor am I convinced that Waggott/Broughton and whoever else have the experience needed.

You have to look at the people responsible for things being this way. Ultimately, the owners.

Edited March 21 by den

[lraC]

2 hours ago, arbitro said:

I was told last night that on the last day of the window Pasha and Waggott arranged a loan deal for a player Tomasson rated behind his back. Tomasson got wind of this and asked the player who told him it was true but he was of the understanding that Tomasson had agreed to it. Tomasson went ballistic at those two and went to town on them, it was said to me that it was the straw that broke the camel's back. Being the cowards that are they were scared they would be called out in his press conference the day before the QPR game and stopped him doing it. This ties in with the 'ask Steve and Pasha' comment after the QPR game.

And Broughton knew nothing of this scurrilous deal.

I was told the name of the player but it would be unfair to name him.

 

Whether people rated him or not, is  irrelevant really now. We have lost a manager who was so honest and decent and prepared to let the fans know about some of the crazy things going on at the club, as he was the only one, who had the philosophy, football is nothing without the fans.

This new guy will simply toe the line now, so it was a very sad day, when JDT left and with it, any hopes of success under these idiots.

[martonrover]

Surely, player trading is chiefly a responsibility for the Director of Football.

I wonder if Broughton was aware of what Waggott and Pasha were up to?
Obviously, any such decisions should only be actioned after full consultation with the Head Coach.

It’s just another example of how dysfunctional the club is, because the owners fill key positions with hired goons, who don’t work together as a team.

 

 

Edited March 21 by martonrover

[tomphil]

Why had they set this alleged deal up anyway ?

Which agents where they using and were they just cutting the wage bill or did they have a nice drink to gain out of it ?

Seems these two operate on a basis soley to try and impress the owners with their cost cutting and keep themselves in several hundred grand a year each.  The more time goes on the more this double act is resembling the new Shagnew there are remarkable similarities to that era unfolding.

It's time to oust them !

By the way i'm presuming this loan out involved our next opponents and their quest for a big lad.

Edited March 21 by tomphil

[JHRover]

When anyone worries themselves about promotion and relegation it would be useful to remember this sort of thing. Whilst we are now fighting to preserve our Championship status the CEO and shadow man are scurrying like rats in the shadows trying to find new ways of getting players out and off the wage bill. Even going behind the manager's back and undermining him in the process.

They're not here to do any good by BRFC. Promotion, relegation, progress, growth, improvement - never on the agenda with this lowlife scum. They're paid to do one thing and one thing only.

We need shut of the lot of them and this club will never improve or prosper until they are history.

Edited March 21 by JHRover

[lraC]

12 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Why had they set this alleged deal up anyway ?

Which agents where they using and were they just cutting the wage bill or did they have a nice drink to gain out of it ?

Seems these two operate on a basis soley to try and impress the owners with their cost cutting and keep themselves in several hundred grand a year each.  The more time goes on the more this double act is resembling the new Shagnew there are remarkable similarities to that era unfolding.

It's time to oust them !

By the way i'm presuming this loan out involved our next opponents and their quest for a big lad.

It is only a guess on my part, but given it was Pasha involved and he has the direct line to the owners, it will have been a big wage.

Gallagher would be the likely one and given what Waggott said to me about him, it makes me think it is him, even more so,

[RoverDom]

1 hour ago, lraC said:

Whether people rated him or not, is  irrelevant really now. We have lost a manager who was so honest and decent and prepared to let the fans know about some of the crazy things going on at the club

It's a sad state to be in but I would prefer a manager who loses games but is shouting at the top of his voice about how shit the club is rather than a manager who gets wins and but blows peas up waggots arse. 

[Mike E]

1 hour ago, lraC said:

It is only a guess on my part, but given it was Pasha involved and he has the direct line to the owners, it will have been a big wage.

Gallagher would be the likely one and given what Waggott said to me about him, it makes me think it is him, even more so,

I wondered about Gally, esp with the late flurry of rumours he was being loaned out.

[Rogerb]

Think this confirms who stopped the incomings.

[tomphil]

All this 'needs approval from India' stuff that gets blamed for everything i'm thinking now it's just a smoke screen.

Shadowman and Waggot get the budget then run the club their way whilst trying to bother the owners as little as poss in order to get their own brownie points.

A real comfortable number as long as ..

lights are kept on.

Costs are cut.

You don't bother the owners unless you have to.

It's probably been these two all along that have zero ambition for anything other than their own wages. Take no risks, push for nothing unless asked or told and just exist in the twilight zone, getting to close to the spotlight then draw your horns in again.

[JHRover]

34 minutes ago, tomphil said:

All this 'needs approval from India' stuff that gets blamed for everything i'm thinking now it's just a smoke screen.

Shadowman and Waggot get the budget then run the club their way whilst trying to bother the owners as little as poss in order to get their own brownie points.

A real comfortable number as long as ..

lights are kept on.

Costs are cut.

You don't bother the owners unless you have to.

It's probably been these two all along that have zero ambition for anything other than their own wages. Take no risks, push for nothing unless asked or told and just exist in the twilight zone, getting to close to the spotlight then draw your horns in again.

Largely agreed although I think the 'big' deals like O'Brien and McGuire - where the wage bill needs stretching or cash needs putting up beyond the set summer budget - requires their special permission and authorisation.

Owners set a budget in the summer, Waggott and shadow man left to get on with it. This will cover the essential costs and they have permission to reinvest a percentage of money generated so long as the wage bill comes down.

Either permission for extra spending is too slow to come through, they don't agree to it or Waggott and shadow man don't even ask them not wanting to cause any turbulence it's fundamentally getting permission from India to do something that is the issue.

[G Somerset Rover]

He’s hardly ripping up trees but IF it was Gally they were looking to offload on loan behind JDTs back, then coupled with the McGuire ‘balls up’, then surely the owners, Waggott and Sohail were intent - or at least comfortable - with the prospect of seeing this club get relegated this season.  

Edited March 21 by G Somerset Rover