Tony Mowbray's Reign...& is he off to Sunderland ?

[davulsukur]

6 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Yep....why hasn't Waggot come out like this chap at QPR

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.qpr.co.uk/news/club-news/warburton-to-leave-at-end-of-season-280422/%3fdisplayMode=GoogleAmp

A statement on the website to clarify the situation is Tesco's job, wonder why it hasn't happened.  Owners wouldn't even get involved in posting stuff on the website.

 

Waggot won't be allowed to make a brew without sign off from India.

It's a complete shambles of a setup.

[Tom]

At this point we just have to hope Ben Benson stays 

Not sure we can replace his clipboard prowess 

[arbitro]

7 hours ago, Bluerover78 said:

I think it's a shit show having no statement from the owners, but listening to Simon Jordan on talk sport on Friday he said he would not have come out and spoke to the manager regarding a new contract whilst in our position and said it would be upto the manager to contact the owners if he was wanting clarification on a new contract. Seems like he's been sacked  but not until his contract has finished hence not having to pay severance pay. Hear it lots now, some manager is potted and a new manager is named before the desk is cleared, which is similar to Tony in that he hasn't a clue what the owners want and is in the dark whilst plans have been made for the future without him knowing. Doubt that will be the case with us I'm afraid, we will advertise for a replacement half way through pre season. As many have often said though regarding Waggot and Mowbray being close I find it very odd that they haven't spoke about future plans. Maybe they are both mushrooms being kept in the dark. Hopefully the local media can find Waggot and ask the question of does the club have a plan and timescale for a replacement? I'm not actually sure what Waggot does day to day, no one ever seems to see or hear from him, he's certainly not out and about engaging with fans like John Williams seemed to do. Odds on we get a 1 paragraph written statement saying "thanks Tony we wish you all the best and good luck we will provide a further statement in due course". 

In truth Simon Jordan has very little credibility when it comes to running football clubs. Venkys have handled this particular situation awfully, pretty much in keeping with the last twelve years.

The elephant is still in the room.

[arbitro]

It was good to hear boos when Waggott stepped into the pitch yesterday to present some award. Hopefully he is hanging his head in shame today after the way his bosses have behaved with Mowbray. 

And then he leaves too.

[Guest]

I'm pretty sure that, even where fixed term contracts are in place, an employment relationship of this duration (5 years) would be deemed 'permanent' by an Employment Tribunal. TM could quite easily be looking at a claim for unfair dismissal here (nooooooo!!) and the 'hands-off' Venksters clueless about UK Employment Law may well have to pay him out anyway. I wouldn't expect the hapless Waggott to have any idea about the club's liability in this respect, and there appears to be nobody else in the building who actually deals with such matters...

How long till we hear snippets coming from the League Managers Association, outraged about the vile treatment of one of their own...? www.leaguemanagers.com 

He is sitting pretty, end of contract or not.

[K-Hod]

7 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Yep....why hasn't Waggot come out like this chap at QPR

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.qpr.co.uk/news/club-news/warburton-to-leave-at-end-of-season-280422/%3fdisplayMode=GoogleAmp

A statement on the website to clarify the situation is Tesco's job, wonder why it hasn't happened.  Owners wouldn't even get involved in posting stuff on the website.

 

When you say Tesco, are you on about Waggott? If so, how come?

[Tugayisgod]

Not too many names here to get excited about apart from Carvalhal , and maybe Michael Carrick? Not one I’d thought of tbh but not a bad shout

https://www.bettingodds.com/thesackrace/teams/blackburn-rovers

 

[matt83]

No idea why Appleton is the favourite. He was another Venky flop. Was lucky not to get sacked at half time vs millwall. 

[Ossydave]

2 minutes ago, Tugayisgod said:

Not too many names here to get excited about apart from Carvalhal , and maybe Michael Carrick? Not one I’d thought of tbh but not a bad shout

https://www.bettingodds.com/thesackrace/teams/blackburn-rovers

 

How can it be considered a credible list when they have Lambert on it

[Tugayisgod]

 

[Gav]

10 hours ago, Blue blood said:

Personally I am highly impressed with TM. 

I'm impressed that after 5 years he leaves us in scarcely any better place than when he arrived. 

I'm impressed so many people think he is honourable despite having told enough whoppers to feel at home in the government and having slated the fans repeatedly. 

I'm impressed we have had so many death spirals. I didn't think it was possible to implode after Christmas year in year out. 

Im impressed we somehow missed playoffs despite our strong position and our rivals all slipping up plenty. 

I'm impressed that he has played players in positions even a 4 year old would balk to play them. 

Well done Tony, it's a belting job you have done. Surprised me left right and centre. 

I’m not have a go Blue blood, but I think comments like this show how posters on here have lost any sort of grip on reality.

When you say we’re scarcely better than when he arrived? How many games did you go to under Coyle? How many £10m or £20m assets did Coyle leave us with? 

When Coyle was sacked we were unfit, the football was pathetic, we were 2nd bottom, 3 points adrift and hadn’t been above 20th place all season. We’d been in a 7yr death spiral when Mowbray arrived and he almost rescued us with the dross Coyle had left him with.

Coyle was offered the same deal as Warnock, zero transfer budget. Mowbray was given money to spend and he’s hit the jackpot for the owners a number of times (Armstrong, Diaz, Kaminski, Dack and Dolan will be another given time) £60m+ probably in today's market? Half the debt gone if these owners cash in? Job done? 

Mowbray hasn’t been good enough, working with absent owners and a club rudderless for the most part, but things could be worse and my prediction, will get even worse once he leaves. 
 

Mowbray, Coyle, Lambert, Bowyer, Appleton, Berg and King rat are symptoms, Venkys are the disease.

Venkys Out!

Edited May 1, 2022 by Gav

[Bluerover78]

8 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Hold on a minute.   I'm no fan of the owners but they have placed a CEO in charge who should be doing this type of shit....its Tony's mate isn't it , so why hasn't he come out with a load of platitudes and positive noises so Tony gets a new job, you know like a good reference and good PR for his mate..."thanks for all you've done, promotion blah blah....'  he could do it tomorrow but choosing not to..why?

Why is it being left to the owners and giving them bad publicity?.....this is Mogadon and Tesco last fingers up before they both fuck off, or even worse bag themselves another 3 years each.

A disgrace the pair of them.

I agree on that, poor wording on my part, I wasn't expecting a direct response from India, but definitely from Mr Waggot who should be Venkies mouthpiece. Its another reason why fans are fed up, lack of communication and not knowing which direction the club is going. 

[Mattyblue]

Won’t be much of a ‘revolution’ with those two…

[Gav]

Good article here on Mowbray and Warburton, it’s no way to treat people.

https://www.football365.com/news/opinion-blackburn-qpr-mowbray-warburton-manager-risks

[matt83]

3 minutes ago, Gav said:

Good article here on Mowbray and Warburton, it’s no way to treat people.

https://www.football365.com/news/opinion-blackburn-qpr-mowbray-warburton-manager-risks

Couldn’t read it after the first sentence. I’m not having that finishing 11th-15th in the championship is punching above our weight. At the very least it’s exactly our weight. 

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Interesting how things work out - imagine we had a more consistent season (i.e. not feast and famine) - TM would be able to go to the owners and say - look we are 13 (possibly 16 if we beat Brum) points better than last season and we only just missed out on the play-offs. Then spout usual guff about being on a journey - then out comes a new 3 year contract.

At least our flirtation with automatic promotion followed by the death spiral may at least bring an end to TM's tenure.

I am grateful for a lot of things he has done at Rovers - but the last couple of seasons reminded me of the final days of Souness (strange tactically decisions, blaming everyone but themselves, players out of favour being dropped - but dragged out far longer than it should have been. Even the most ardent fan has to admit that TM isn't tactically that great - every now and then he gets it spot on - but you can't help but feel it is more luck than judgement or intense planning on the training field.

[Gav]

1 minute ago, matt83 said:

Couldn’t read it after the first sentence. I’m not having that finishing 11th-15th in the championship is punching above our weight. At the very least it’s exactly our weight. 

Do you know of any other business where the owners are absent, yet CEO has no decision making power Matt?

For that reason alone we are punching above our weight and I’ve not even mentioned or mid-table budget.

[matt83]

4 minutes ago, Gav said:

Do you know of any other business where the owners are absent, yet CEO has no decision making power Matt?

For that reason alone we are punching above our weight and I’ve not even mentioned or mid-table budget.

I’m not sure if the Venkys/swag had more input that would change things for the better. But I agree a proper ceo given decision making power would solve a lot of problems.

Out of interest with everything considered where do you see rovers natural weigh as? Even with Venkys/swag I see it as mid table in this division.

[Blue blood]

13 minutes ago, Gav said:

I’m not have a go Blue blood, but I think comments like this show how posters on here have lost any sort of grip on reality.

Gav never think you are having a go whether you agree or disagree with me. That said if we are talking about reality aren't most of these stone cold facts? The only one which is more opinion based is the squad quality which I will come on too. All the others are in the record book in  black and white - a grim reality indeed. 

13 minutes ago, Gav said:

When you say we’re scarcely better than when he arrived? How many games did you go to under Coyle? How many £10m or £20m assets did Coyle leave us with? 

When Coyle was sacked we were unfit, the football was pathetic, we were 2nd bottom, 3 points adrift and hadn’t been above 20th place all season. We’d been in a 7yr death spiral when Mowbray arrived and he almost rescued us with the dross Coyle had left him with.

He's an upgrade on Coyle but surely that can't be the standard? Better than utterly useless? I would agree that I don't hold too much blame for getting relegated as we were dire under Coyle and has several years of having the squad decimated when TM took over. But its not much of an endorsement, better than Coyle. 

Continuing on Coyle here's the rub. Firstly Dack alone cost twice, thrice what Coyle got to spend on fees. You can't say where are Coyle's 10 million assets when he has had zero to spend compared to TM. That's hardly a fair comparison. TM did hit the jackpot with a few players but when the cheap ones costs significantly more that Coyle's budget it really can't be considered a fair comparison whatsoever and of course you would expect improvements. Again though better than Coyle - even of it were a fair comparison - isn't enough. 

13 minutes ago, Gav said:

Coyle was offered the same deal as Warnock, zero transfer budget. Mowbray was given money to spend and he’s hit the jackpot for the owners a number of times (Armstrong, Diaz, Kaminski, Dack and Dolan will be another given time) £60m+ probably in today's market? Half the debt gone if these owners cash in? Job done? 

I doubt we would get 60 million for them. Partly because of mismanaging contracts - owners and manager to blame for that- and partly because that's highly unrealistic. Armstrong went for £15 m and he had shown form over a longer period than Diaz. Dack won't go for a big fee after 2 injuries and Kaminski probably isn't going to fetch that much either. (And I think we should steer clear of Keepers here, given we sold Raya for pittance.)  Also it's disingenuous to put Dolan in that bracket as he's nowhere near that level at present. 

In terms of squad better than arrived. I'd say marginally at best. Which for 5 years work is appalling. We have holes all over the place and if the new manager can't invest the Diaz money, he will inherit a squad that's pretty toothless in attack with a ton of gaps everywhere.  No right back. One good centre back. Short in midfield and out wide. And Gally is the best of our attackers. It's hard to say that's there's massive improvement for 5 years. We have some promising youngsters, although TM inherited some of those as well. So there's much of a muchness imo. 

I'd say marginally better as we do have Travis, a solid keeper (which is huge) Warton and I think Buckley will go far in the game when he has stopped being shunted about. But outside of these 4, the squad looks threadbare or poor. If that's the sum total of 5 years journey you wonder what the heck has been done. Also that's 5 years with no enforced sales save Armstrong. 5 years without having to worry about results. Contrast that with previous managers continually having to sell our best players and get results it's a pretty good gig. Should have left much more in that time. 

(for the purpose of this I am assuming Diaz will be off, but then equally Coyle had Hanley and Duffy leave which totally sunk the defence. Given the writing was on the wall for this in all 3 cases I think that is a fair comparison.)

 

13 minutes ago, Gav said:

Mowbray hasn’t been good enough, working with absent owners and a club rudderless for the most part, but things could be worse and my prediction, will get even worse once he leaves. 

It could have. And getting out of league 1 was key and a good achievement. But could be worse doesn't mean he's done a good job whatsoever. I mean if that's our standard, crap, as oppose to scraping the bottom of the barrel couldn't be any worse crap, then we may as well pack it in. Being not quite as bad is not a ringing endorsement. 

13 minutes ago, Gav said:

 

 

Mowbray, Coyle, Lambert, Bowyer, Appleton, Berg and King rat are symptoms, Venkys are the disease.

Venkys Out!

Agree on this. It's why we keep getting them. 

[47er]

3 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Venkys are the disease.

VD!

[MarkBRFC]

1 hour ago, Gav said:

We’d been in a 7yr death spiral when Mowbray arrived and he almost rescued us with the dross Coyle had left him with.

 

Not sure I agree with this part Gav.

Bowyer inherited a much bigger mess than Mowbray did. A season following utter chaos with Shebby and Shaw still squabbling, a season following 5 managerial changes from k*an, Black, Berg, Appleton, a squad containing the likes of Orr, Murphy, Etuhu, Best, all those weird Portuguese lads.

He then put a squad together in his first season signing the likes of Gestede, Marshall, Conway, Cairney, Evans that was still in with a very slight chance of finishing 6th on the final day of the season. 

The year after is the sickener under Bowyer as a seasoned Championship manager would have had that team in the top 6 at least in my opinion, but we still finished 9th. Something Mowbray still hasn't achieved yet in 5 years.

Now look at who Mowbray inherited. Raya, Nyambe, Lenihan, Mulgrew, Williams, Bennett, Evans, Conway & Graham. All those were lauded as hero's 12 months later for finishing second in the third division. Mowbray even gave most of them new deals, and with the exception of Raya, all look like they have walked away for nothing.

I'm not having that Mowbray has saved the club from some sort of oblivion, he's been the most average manager I have ever seen and done nothing more than the bear minimum I would have expected from somebody given 5 years at the job to shape the club as he saw fit.

I'm personally glad to see the back of him, although admittedly a bit anxious to who comes in next.

Edited May 1, 2022 by MarkBRFC

[DE.]

2 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

Not sure I agree with this part Gav.

Bowyer inherited a much bigger mess than Mowbray did. A season following utter chaos with Shebby and Shaw still squabbling, a season following 5 managerial changes from k*an, Black, Berg, Appleton, a squad containing the likes of Orr, Murphy, Etuhu, Best, all those weird Portuguese lads.

He then put a squad together in his first season signing the likes of Gestede, Marshall, Conway, Cairney, Evans that was still in with a very slight chance of finishing 6th on the final day of the season. 

The year after is the sickener under Bowyer as a seasoned Championship manager would have had that team in the top 6 at least in my opinion, but we still finished 9th. Something Mowbray still hasn't achieved yet in 5 years.

Now look at who Mowbray inherited. Raya, Nyambe, Lenihan, Mulgrew, Williams, Bennett, Evans, Conway & Graham. All those were lauded as hero's 12 months later for finishing second in the third division. Mowbray even gave most of them new deals before, and with the exception of Raya, all look like they have walked away for nothing.

I'm not having that Mowbray has saved the club from some sort of oblivion, he's been the most average manager I have ever seen and done nothing more than the bear minimum I would have expected from somebody given 5 years at the job to shape the club as he saw fit.

I'm personally glad to see the back of him, although a bit anxious to who comes in next.

Agree. It's funny how Mowbray's time here is considered the pinnacle of the Venky tenure, yet Bowyer's time here is now regarded as an abject failure and part of the club's destruction - when in reality as a total rookie manager GB finished higher than Mowbray ever has with much less to spend on transfers (albeit assumedly a higher wage budget). I'm sure a lot of the people doing so were likely praising Bowyer at the time as well, as I remember very similar sentiments about 'dignity', 'pride brought back to the club', etc being thrown around then too. The king is dead, long live the king I suppose. 

[Sparks Rover]

1 hour ago, K-Hod said:

When you say Tesco, are you on about Waggott? If so, how come?

He holds a similar contempt for his customer base as Tesco do, with his half arsed attempt at BOGOFs, his nasty Waggot tax and overall cheap way he runs everything.  Just like Tesco

[den]

1 hour ago, Gav said:

I’m not have a go Blue blood, but I think comments like this show how posters on here have lost any sort of grip on reality.

When you say we’re scarcely better than when he arrived? How many games did you go to under Coyle? How many £10m or £20m assets did Coyle leave us with? 

When Coyle was sacked we were unfit, the football was pathetic, we were 2nd bottom, 3 points adrift and hadn’t been above 20th place all season. We’d been in a 7yr death spiral when Mowbray arrived and he almost rescued us with the dross Coyle had left him with.

Coyle was offered the same deal as Warnock, zero transfer budget. Mowbray was given money to spend and he’s hit the jackpot for the owners a number of times (Armstrong, Diaz, Kaminski, Dack and Dolan will be another given time) £60m+ probably in today's market? Half the debt gone if these owners cash in? Job done? 

Mowbray hasn’t been good enough, working with absent owners and a club rudderless for the most part, but things could be worse and my prediction, will get even worse once he leaves. 
 

Mowbray, Coyle, Lambert, Bowyer, Appleton, Berg and King rat are symptoms, Venkys are the disease.

Venkys Out!

You want another 5 years of the same then Gav?

[lraC]

38 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Gav never think you are having a go whether you agree or disagree with me. That said if we are talking about reality aren't most of these stone cold facts? The only one which is more opinion based is the squad quality which I will come on too. All the others are in the record book in  black and white - a grim reality indeed. 

He's an upgrade on Coyle but surely that can't be the standard? Better than utterly useless? I would agree that I don't hold too much blame for getting relegated as we were dire under Coyle and has several years of having the squad decimated when TM took over. But its not much of an endorsement, better than Coyle. 

Continuing on Coyle here's the rub. Firstly Dack alone cost twice, thrice what Coyle got to spend on fees. You can't say where are Coyle's 10 million assets when he has had zero to spend compared to TM. That's hardly a fair comparison. TM did hit the jackpot with a few players but when the cheap ones costs significantly more that Coyle's budget it really can't be considered a fair comparison whatsoever and of course you would expect improvements. Again though better than Coyle - even of it were a fair comparison - isn't enough. 

I doubt we would get 60 million for them. Partly because of mismanaging contracts - owners and manager to blame for that- and partly because that's highly unrealistic. Armstrong went for £15 m and he had shown form over a longer period than Diaz. Dack won't go for a big fee after 2 injuries and Kaminski probably isn't going to fetch that much either. (And I think we should steer clear of Keepers here, given we sold Raya for pittance.)  Also it's disingenuous to put Dolan in that bracket as he's nowhere near that level at present. 

In terms of squad better than arrived. I'd say marginally at best. Which for 5 years work is appalling. We have holes all over the place and if the new manager can't invest the Diaz money, he will inherit a squad that's pretty toothless in attack with a ton of gaps everywhere.  No right back. One good centre back. Short in midfield and out wide. And Gally is the best of our attackers. It's hard to say that's there's massive improvement for 5 years. We have some promising youngsters, although TM inherited some of those as well. So there's much of a muchness imo. 

I'd say marginally better as we do have Travis, a solid keeper (which is huge) Warton and I think Buckley will go far in the game when he has stopped being shunted about. But outside of these 4, the squad looks threadbare or poor. If that's the sum total of 5 years journey you wonder what the heck has been done. Also that's 5 years with no enforced sales save Armstrong. 5 years without having to worry about results. Contrast that with previous managers continually having to sell our best players and get results it's a pretty good gig. Should have left much more in that time. 

(for the purpose of this I am assuming Diaz will be off, but then equally Coyle had Hanley and Duffy leave which totally sunk the defence. Given the writing was on the wall for this in all 3 cases I think that is a fair comparison.)

 

It could have. And getting out of league 1 was key and a good achievement. But could be worse doesn't mean he's done a good job whatsoever. I mean if that's our standard, crap, as oppose to scraping the bottom of the barrel couldn't be any worse crap, then we may as well pack it in. Being not quite as bad is not a ringing endorsement. 

Agree on this. It's why we keep getting them. 

Good post that and I am particularly interested what you have said about Buckley. I also agree that he will go far in the game when he stops being shunted about and consider him to be one of our best players.

From what I have seen of him, when he is played in his best role, I think he is a real gem and could be a player to build a team around.