Jon Dahl Tomasson - Officially No Longer Our Head Coach

[The1mattjansen]

Our team, our squad, is nowhere near as good as Burnley's.

Everyone thinks we should be 'more' up for it than Burnley. But they've got every bit the same incentive as us, and arguably more. They're at home, they're expected to win, they're currently the better side.

JDT is giving game time to an awful lot of youngsters, the future. He's openly coming up and explaining that we should expect inconsistency. That's totally understandable. He's had very little time to fully get to know the squad and bring his own players in. Of those that he has, Hyam and Brittain are brilliant. Szmodics has done ok so far.

There needs to be a reality check here. Anyone calling for his head is utterly deluded. He was a great choice of manager and our trajectory is clearly positive, but not in a straight line.

Edited November 15, 2022 by The1mattjansen

[Upside Down]

46 minutes ago, The1mattjansen said:

Our team, our squad, is nowhere near as good as Burnley's.

Everyone thinks we should be 'more' up for it than Burnley. But they've got every bit the same incentive as us, and arguably more. They're at home, they're expected to win, they're currently the better side.

JDT is giving game time to an awful lot of youngsters, the future. He's openly coming up and explaining that we should expect inconsistency. That's totally understandable. He's had very little time to fully get to know the squad and bring his own players in. Of those that he has, Hyam and Brittain are brilliant. Szmodics has done ok so far.

There needs to be a reality check here. Anyone calling for his head is utterly deluded. He was a great choice of manager and our trajectory is clearly positive, but not in a straight line.

I'm sorry but that performance was absolutely unacceptable. I'm in no way calling for his head but he deserves a sever reprimand for that. 

I'm still absolutely baffled and thoroughly pissed off that he didn't play the Wharton brothers. 

[arbitro]

1 hour ago, The1mattjansen said:

Our team, our squad, is nowhere near as good as Burnley's.

Everyone thinks we should be 'more' up for it than Burnley. But they've got every bit the same incentive as us, and arguably more. They're at home, they're expected to win, they're currently the better side.

JDT is giving game time to an awful lot of youngsters, the future. He's openly coming up and explaining that we should expect inconsistency. That's totally understandable. He's had very little time to fully get to know the squad and bring his own players in. Of those that he has, Hyam and Brittain are brilliant. Szmodics has done ok so far.

There needs to be a reality check here. Anyone calling for his head is utterly deluded. He was a great choice of manager and our trajectory is clearly positive, but not in a straight line.

How many have called for his head? He and the team have received criticism and rightly so.

The reality check is that we have suffered our worst derby defeat since 1963 and did so without a fight.. Tomasson's team selection and tactics also contributed massively to the defeat.

 

[Waggy76]

2 hours ago, The1mattjansen said:

Our team, our squad, is nowhere near as good as Burnley's.

Everyone thinks we should be 'more' up for it than Burnley. But they've got every bit the same incentive as us, and arguably more. They're at home, they're expected to win, they're currently the better side.

JDT is giving game time to an awful lot of youngsters, the future. He's openly coming up and explaining that we should expect inconsistency. That's totally understandable. He's had very little time to fully get to know the squad and bring his own players in. Of those that he has, Hyam and Brittain are brilliant. Szmodics has done ok so far.

There needs to be a reality check here. Anyone calling for his head is utterly deluded. He was a great choice of manager and our trajectory is clearly positive, but not in a straight line.

That was not a one off performance, at least  6 dire away games..

We have lost every game when we have conceded first...That suggests to me no plan B ..

The nonsensical passing about in our penalty area , as contributed to other defeats , not just Burnley ..

He doesn't seem to learn ..The players are not good enough to play that way , it's crazy...

 

[Mashed Potatoes]

3 hours ago, The1mattjansen said:

Our team, our squad, is nowhere near as good as Burnley's.

Everyone thinks we should be 'more' up for it than Burnley. But they've got every bit the same incentive as us, and arguably more. They're at home, they're expected to win, they're currently the better side.

JDT is giving game time to an awful lot of youngsters, the future. He's openly coming up and explaining that we should expect inconsistency. That's totally understandable. He's had very little time to fully get to know the squad and bring his own players in. Of those that he has, Hyam and Brittain are brilliant. Szmodics has done ok so far.

There needs to be a reality check here. Anyone calling for his head is utterly deluded. He was a great choice of manager and our trajectory is clearly positive, but not in a straight line.

Spot on.

We are doing much the best of the clubs in the division who do not have the benefit of parachute payments. The manager is very much in credit for his work.

[The1mattjansen]

57 minutes ago, Waggy76 said:

That was not a one off performance, at least  6 dire away games..

We have lost every game when we have conceded first...That suggests to me no plan B ..

The nonsensical passing about in our penalty area , as contributed to other defeats , not just Burnley ..

He doesn't seem to learn ..The players are not good enough to play that way , it's crazy...

 

We're 3rd in the league playing that way, while our squad is nowhere near the 3rd best.

You can't take all the wins that it's brought and then suggest it should have been abandoned in certain fixtures with the benefit of hindsight.

The plan B point is fair. I think he's doing wonderful things in playing to our strengths, which are currently defensive. I don't recall ever feeling as confident that we can hold a lead as I currently do. But it's obviously true that we've got major problems when we concede first.

I think that's a symptom of where we're at. We just don't have enough forward thinking talent or speed. Fans understandably clamour for Dack, but the fact is that he's been out for years and hasn't torn it up on return. He was never a pace merchant to begin with and it's not obvious where he can come on in to our current system to make a difference. 

I do think it's a sign of a good managerial project that we're setting solid foundations to build from, in establishing ourselves as a solid defensive unit first and foremost.

The problem here is that he went overboard in trying to play to our strengths, in our biggest derby, and it didn't work out. As soon as Burnley scored we were f***ed. For me the only real anomalous selection was Garret. I strongly suspect Szmodics would have played there had he not been ill, and would have given us far more balance. Assuming he got ill at the last minute and JDT had to make a decision between 3 young lads (Buckley, Garret and Wharton), he decided to take the defensive option. I love A.Wharton to bits but he hasn't had the best of games of late, by his own admission. In hindsight he should have played, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

In hindsight, I should probably have listened when they were teaching paragraphing back in year 7.

[AllRoverAsia]

What were our "strengths" that were overplayed at the Turd?

Genuine question. I have absolutely no idea.

[Hasta]

22 minutes ago, The1mattjansen said:

You can't take all the wins that it's brought and then suggest it should have been abandoned in certain fixtures with the benefit of hindsight.

The plan B point is fair. I think he's doing wonderful things in playing to our strengths, which are currently defensive. I don't recall ever feeling as confident that we can hold a lead as I currently do. But it's obviously true that we've got major problems when we concede first.

Very few are calling for his head.

It's just that not, only have we lost every game we have conceded first, in all but 1 we haven't scored a single goal.

The passing from the back works against team that allow us time. It's brought us a huge number of wins, and as you say once we are infront we seem to be able to defend that lead. But any time a team closes us down and presses us we just give the ball away. There are countless examples home and away. Go watch the last 20 minutes of Birmingham and Huddersfield, and as soon as they start really coming at us to try and get back in the game and press, we lose control.

Therefore, when we start a game and are immediately getting closed down from the front we rarely manage to get forward and we are just waiting to concede. It was obvious to most regular Rovers watchers that we were not in that first half at all on Sunday, and we could not even get the ball up to the forwards on the half way line. But we persisted in playing the same way until we conceded, and then still carried on that way for the rest of the game. The one solitary shot we had in the whole game probably came from the only long ball I can remember from a centre half.

Now the reason I'm so disheartened (still), is that he sticks to this so stubbornly. We all know that if we are 1-0 down at half time against Preston and can't get out of our half, he will carry on doing the same shit.

Imagine how many points we could have had if by going forward more direct when plan A isn't working had actually managed to alter any of those 9 defeat. And the more teams become aware of it, the more teams will start doing it. In a high profile fixture Sheff United showed the league how to handle Burnley. Burnley have just done the same with us.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Hasta

[Hasta]

9 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

What were our "strengths" that were overplayed at the Turd?

Genuine question. I have absolutely no idea.

Play it around at the back. Try and pull the opposition out of shape and then move the ball quickly into that space. It works at Ewood when the opposition sit near the half way line and allow us to knock it around and probe. It doesn't work when the opposition are sat on your 18 yard line waiting for you to do it.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Hasta

[RTM08]

The way I see it we have had a few games where we have been lucky to win, but how many have we been unlucky to lose? 

The performances when we lose make us look 2 divisions lower than the opposition and I don't see that changing, but I do see teams we beat watching that Burnley game and seeing how unbelievably easy it is to press us.

In addition on the "Burnley are better and have a more expensive squad" points I keep seeing - who cares? In 2005 and 2009/10 we were in a far superior position, but they made us fight for every single game. We were pathetic on Sunday and if that's how up for it we are in the second biggest game of the season then that is a massive concern for me.

[Hasta]

2 minutes ago, RTM08 said:

 

In addition on the "Burnley are better and have a more expensive squad" points I keep seeing - who cares? In 2005 and 2009/10 we were in a far superior position, but they made us fight for every single game. We were pathetic on Sunday and if that's how up for it we are in the second biggest game of the season then that is a massive concern for me.

That's nonsense with regards to how bad we got battered. Blackpool had a ding-dong battle and got a draw. Rotherham conceded in the 112th minute but scored twice and did look dangerous on the break. I'd be surprised if there's any team burnley have played this season that have caused them as little problem up front as we did.  

[arbitro]

34 minutes ago, The1mattjansen said:

We're 3rd in the league playing that way, while our squad is nowhere near the 3rd best.

You can't take all the wins that it's brought and then suggest it should have been abandoned in certain fixtures with the benefit of hindsight.

The plan B point is fair. I think he's doing wonderful things in playing to our strengths, which are currently defensive. I don't recall ever feeling as confident that we can hold a lead as I currently do. But it's obviously true that we've got major problems when we concede first.

I think that's a symptom of where we're at. We just don't have enough forward thinking talent or speed. Fans understandably clamour for Dack, but the fact is that he's been out for years and hasn't torn it up on return. He was never a pace merchant to begin with and it's not obvious where he can come on in to our current system to make a difference. 

I do think it's a sign of a good managerial project that we're setting solid foundations to build from, in establishing ourselves as a solid defensive unit first and foremost.

The problem here is that he went overboard in trying to play to our strengths, in our biggest derby, and it didn't work out. As soon as Burnley scored we were f***ed. For me the only real anomalous selection was Garret. I strongly suspect Szmodics would have played there had he not been ill, and would have given us far more balance. Assuming he got ill at the last minute and JDT had to make a decision between 3 young lads (Buckley, Garret and Wharton), he decided to take the defensive option. I love A.Wharton to bits but he hasn't had the best of games of late, by his own admission. In hindsight he should have played, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

In hindsight, I should probably have listened when they were teaching paragraphing back in year 7.

You have highlighted several points that many others have which in their opinion cost us on Sunday. And that is all many are doing, criticising his team selection and tactics. And your wider point about them scoring first is highlighting another big weakness that Tomasson has whereby we just haven't looked like getting back into and game where we have conceded first.

[RTM08]

3 minutes ago, Hasta said:

That's nonsense with regards to how bad we got battered. Blackpool had a ding-dong battle and got a draw. Rotherham conceded in the 112th minute but scored twice and did look dangerous on the break. I'd be surprised if there's any team burnley have played this season that have caused them as little problem up front as we did.  

Not sure how accurate it was but I saw a couple of things that suggested it was the worst attacking display by any team in the Championship this season. It would be appalling jn any game but in that game? He's taken me from quietly optimistic to last chance saloon with that, especially with the cheery persona afterwards.

[tomphil]

4 hours ago, The1mattjansen said:

Our team, our squad, is nowhere near as good as Burnley's.

Everyone thinks we should be 'more' up for it than Burnley. But they've got every bit the same incentive as us, and arguably more. They're at home, they're expected to win, they're currently the better side.

JDT is giving game time to an awful lot of youngsters, the future. He's openly coming up and explaining that we should expect inconsistency. That's totally understandable. He's had very little time to fully get to know the squad and bring his own players in. Of those that he has, Hyam and Brittain are brilliant. Szmodics has done ok so far.

There needs to be a reality check here. Anyone calling for his head is utterly deluded. He was a great choice of manager and our trajectory is clearly positive, but not in a straight line.

Who is calling for his head ?

Your post is just an over reaction in itself and doesn't really mirror the overriding opinions on here.  Why in some heads is it always ok to have a go at supporters and not the plonkers being paid 10k a week to play football ?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Me too. I was optimistic until I saw the game against Hudds, especially the second half. I thought then if we give Burnley the same amount of ball in our half as we have given Hudds today we’ll get murdered. They pressed us right back and we were just clearing it anywhere at the end.

Then we had the West Ham game were we managed a great draw after 90 minutes, coming back late on in the game and going on to win the shoot out. 

I was hoping that we’d come out with the West Ham game mindset but we came out with the Hudds mindset and paid the price for that.

It’s too early to call for JDT’s head but at a normal club, which we aren’t, he would have been brought into the boardroom after that game and told that the performance was completely unacceptable, that the away form is a major cause for concern, as is our complete inability to respond to going behind in games. He would have been told in no uncertain terms that things must improve.

However, being who we are, absolutely nothing will happen.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Displaced Rover]

Can I just check, as I've tried to keep away from the media reporting on Sunday's debacle. Has he profusely apologised for the abject performance? Or was it more of the usual drivel we get post shocking away performance?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

18 minutes ago, Displaced Rover said:

Can I just check, as I've tried to keep away from the media reporting on Sunday's debacle. Has he profusely apologised for the abject performance? Or was it more of the usual drivel we get post shocking away performance?

Just business as usual with a smiley face. For me a totally inappropriate response. That result will be stain on his record for ever just like the 7-0 will be a stain on Mowbray’s record. He obviously hasn’t realised that and we’ve nobody at the club that is going to tell him.

[Exiled_Rover]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

It’s too early to call for JDT’s head but at a normal club, which we aren’t, he would have been brought into the boardroom after that game and told that the performance was completely unacceptable, that the away form is a major cause for concern, as is our complete inability to respond to going behind in games. He would have been told in no uncertain terms that things must improve.

And he'd reply with "ok, give me £10m in January to buy some attacking players".

He's hamstrung by the squad he's been left with.

People in one breath are saying losing to a squad assembled for £30m+ is completely unacceptable and puts JDT in the last chance saloon and in the next breath wondering why our 18 year old Academy graduate (who was just a promising player 5 months ago) wasn't on the field to save us - and don't see the hypocrisy.

[booth]

1 hour ago, RTM08 said:

The performances when we lose make us look 2 divisions lower than the opposition and I don't see that changing, but I do see teams we beat watching that Burnley game and seeing how unbelievably easy it is to press us.

He won’t play that way against most teams.
 

He massively overthought it, hence the inclusions of Garrett and Mola and exclusion of Scott Wharton.

[Exiled_Rover]

Just now, booth said:

He won’t play that way against most teams.
 

He massively overthought it, hence the inclusions of Garrett and Mola and exclusion of Scott Wharton.

To be fair S. Wharton has been off the boil for a few weeks - and he was rewarding Mola for a fine performance against West Ham.

I don't think he over thought it - we got mullered when we went to a 4-2-3-1 (with everyone's hero Dack playing as a #10 btw) and tried to be more attacking.

[Hasta]

16 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

To be fair S. Wharton has been off the boil for a few weeks - and he was rewarding Mola for a fine performance against West Ham.

I don't think he over thought it - we got mullered when we went to a 4-2-3-1 (with everyone's hero Dack playing as a #10 btw) and tried to be more attacking.

We got mullered football-wise first half but we limited them to 3 chances. We got mullered second half again, except they eventually broke through as they had been threatening. We got absolutely destroyed at 4-2-3-1 because we could get the ball to the 4 advanced players. This is because we couldn't keep the ball when we passed it out from the goalkeeper when we had 9 players sat around or own area. So once we have only 7 players there and keep playing the same way we go even worse.

It was such a bad performance, we became are the only team to play Burnley this season that managed less that 3 shots in the game, and that includes two lower league teams. It was an absolute shit show because everybody's hero JDT is stubborn and unadaptable. 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Hasta

[47er]

12 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

and he was rewarding Mola for a fine performance against West Ham.

The team that played West Ham reserves was an entirely new 11 (11 changes) so although it was good that Mola did well there  Sunday was his turn to rest. If we're going to reward those who did well in that game then some of  the original eleven haven't been rested--they've been dropped!

Not to pick the Whartons was tantamount to punishment given what we know that match meant to them.

Why?

 

[Leonard Venkhater]

5 hours ago, arbitro said:

How many have called for his head? He and the team have received criticism and rightly so.

The reality check is that we have suffered our worst derby defeat since 1963 and did so without a fight.. Tomasson's team selection and tactics also contributed massively to the defeat.

 

Correct. That performance was unacceptable.

And how do some posters think other teams' fans would have reacted to such a limp, no show in their biggest derby? Everton, Leeds, Brum, Bristol City? I can only imagine.

I think Rovers fans have been remarkably low key about their dissatisfaction. What worries me is that may be not so much a virtue, as a product of the soul destroying dumbing down that has been going on, since 2012.

Third in the table, so it's ok? Rubbish.

Getting beaten by your biggest rivals is never enjoyable, but we went onto the pitch waving a white flag and not only laid down, but actually started shooting ourselves..... to save the enemy's bullets!

As for calling for JDT's head, where is Salome, when you need her? lol

[MarkBRFC]

JDT saying he played Garrett because he needs to "develop" tells me that nothing has changed here and that results still don't matter, not even against that lot.

It's a huge bonus for everyone concerned to be 3rd.

Not saying i want him out but his card is certainly marked after this debacle.

Edited November 15, 2022 by MarkBRFC

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Exiled_Rover said:

And he'd reply with "ok, give me £10m in January to buy some attacking players".

He's hamstrung by the squad he's been left with.

People in one breath are saying losing to a squad assembled for £30m+ is completely unacceptable and puts JDT in the last chance saloon and in the next breath wondering why our 18 year old Academy graduate (who was just a promising player 5 months ago) wasn't on the field to save us - and don't see the hypocrisy.

Again another one twisting the narrative.

People are unhappy with the performance or lack of it more than anything, it shouldn't need explaining.