v Hull City (a) - 29/10/22

[Paul Mani]

10 hours ago, JoeH said:

If Hedges and Brittain are out then I think system change is the best answer. Treat it like the Blackpool game, defend the box well in a flat back four, focus on getting the simple things right up top with an easy to understand system like 4-2-3-1, maybe throw someone like Markanday in so we can keep that left-footed dynamic off the right hand side with no Hedges.

Kaminski

Travis
Hyam
S. Wharton
Pickering

Morton
A. Wharton

Markanday
Dack
Brereton Díaz

Gallagher

I wouldn’t be considering a formation change to one which affords us less defensive stability for two challenging but winnable away games.

Keep the two central (Def & Mid) banks of three, focus on being well set up and two clean sheets - 4pts from Hull and Cov 🙌🏽

[J*B]

4 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

If Brittain and Hedges are out, as suspected…

                    kaminski

        Hyam.   Ayala.   Wharton

Travis           Morton.           Pickering 

        Szmodics.          Wharton 

       Gallagher      Brereton-Diaz

Subs - Pears, Carter, Mola, Buckley, Garrett, Dolan, Vale

Id probably move Trav dependant on the threat from them. So if they’re particularly strong in midfield and less so out wide then you could bring Trav into the middle for Wharton and play Buckley at RWB. Alternatively, if we thought they were dangerous in both areas then Carter could play RWB.

I guess it will be the managers call based on what he sees.

Hedges and Brittain will be a loss. They’re key players. But I think we’ve got enough…

1-2 Rovers - Vale off the bench and off the mark after signing his contract 💙

From what I've seen of Vale I doubt he ever scores in our colours, he looks absolutely pony. 

[neophox]

5 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

I wouldn’t be considering a formation change to one which affords us less defensive stability for two challenging but winnable away games.

Keep the two central (Def & Mid) banks of three, focus on being well set up and two clean sheets - 4pts from Hull and Cov 🙌🏽

4p...we will never draw a game with JDT....its win or bust...

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Mike E said:

Buckley would be better suited imo, with Travis being the right-sided midfielder covering.

I don't love Buckley at RB/RWB and I think given his current predicament within the squad, it could be a really poor long term decision if it goes poorly. Would only potentially knock him even more and could see us lose value in a young player who's stock was so high just a matter of months ago.

[Guest]

49 minutes ago, J*B said:

From what I've seen of Vale I doubt he ever scores in our colours, he looks absolutely pony. 

From what we saw in pre-season, he's more than capable of being a solid squad option for us.

[Admiral Nelsen]

5 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

I wouldn’t be considering a formation change to one which affords us less defensive stability for two challenging but winnable away games.

Keep the two central (Def & Mid) banks of three, focus on being well set up and two clean sheets - 4pts from Hull and Cov 🙌🏽

 

I'd absolutely snatch your hands off for 4 points! 

Like you I wouldn't be looking to alter things if we can avoid it, but no Brittain and no Hedges makes it tricky at RWB. If you really pressed me I'd probably play Carter there and have either Ayala or Phillips in the back three, but it's far from ideal. Buckley could be another option, but again, far from ideal. 

[Admiral Nelsen]

2 minutes ago, JoeH said:

From what we saw in pre-season, he's more than capable of being a solid squad option for us.

 

I think pony is putting it a bit strongly. But there's no doubt that he's struggled to make an impact on the (admittedly few) league games that he has played in. Some nice touches in here and there, but usually I've come away thinking that he's not been able to get in the game. 

 

Maybe more first team experience will do him the world of good, but as was mentioned on another thread, he turns 22 this season, so he can't really be judged as a young lad for too much longer. 

[J*B]

5 minutes ago, JoeH said:

From what we saw in pre-season, he's more than capable of being a solid squad option for us.

What do you think he’s especially good at? From what I’ve seen he:

Isn’t especially quick 

Isn’t especially tall / good in the air 

Doesn’t have especially good movement

Doesn't have the poachers ability of being in the right place at the right time

Isn’t an especially good finisher 

Doesn’t seem to be able to hold the ball up

He’s one of those modern day footballers that does everything OK, but has no standout features. Jason Lowe, but up top.

If you where going to play to his strengths,  what would you need to do? 

[joey_big_nose]

6 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

If Brittain and Hedges are out, as suspected…

                    kaminski

        Hyam.   Ayala.   Wharton

Travis           Morton.           Pickering 

        Szmodics.          Wharton 

       Gallagher      Brereton-Diaz

Subs - Pears, Carter, Mola, Buckley, Garrett, Dolan, Vale

Id probably move Trav dependant on the threat from them. So if they’re particularly strong in midfield and less so out wide then you could bring Trav into the middle for Wharton and play Buckley at RWB. Alternatively, if we thought they were dangerous in both areas then Carter could play RWB.

I guess it will be the managers call based on what he sees.

Hedges and Brittain will be a loss. They’re key players. But I think we’ve got enough…

1-2 Rovers - Vale off the bench and off the mark after signing his contract 💙

If Brittain and Hedges out wouldn't the obvious choice be Szmodics? Played in midfield with tenacity, good pace, great workrate. A bit of an odd choice at Wing Back  in terms of his experience , but then again no stranger than picking Hedges there. Think it could be him? So something like : 

                           Kaminski

                Carter   Hyam.   S Wharton

Szmodics. Travis  Morton.  A Wharton  Pickering 

                Galllagher      Brereton-Diaz

[had.e.nuff]

17 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

My team and I have included Brittain, Hedges and Szmodics in my 18 match day squad. 

                           Kaminski 

                   Hyam  Ayala  S.Wharton

  Hedges Szmodics Travis Morton Brittain

                   Gallagher Brereton-Diaz

Subs:- Pears, Carter, Pickering, A.Wharton, Vale, Hirst, Dolan

have you seen hirst recently would be no where near the squad unless he can drive the bus.

[chaddyrovers]

11 minutes ago, had.e.nuff said:

have you seen hirst recently would be no where near the squad unless he can drive the bus.

of course I have seen Hirst in a Rovers shirt thanks. Like I said time after time, I think Hirst will come good and prove plenty of people on wrong. I've not given up on him yet

[rigger]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

of course I have seen Hirst in a Rovers shirt thanks. Like I said time after time, I think Hirst will come good and prove plenty of people on wrong. I've not given up on him yet

Chaddy, Had E Nuff didn't ask if you had seen Hirst in a Rovers shirt. He was asking, if you had seen Hirst play recently. The reason he is asking this is because Hirst has been absolutly diabolical in recent games ( for the U21s ). He would be lucky to make mascot.

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, J*B said:

What do you think he’s especially good at? From what I’ve seen he:

Isn’t especially quick 

Isn’t especially tall / good in the air 

Doesn’t have especially good movement

Doesn't have the poachers ability of being in the right place at the right time

Isn’t an especially good finisher 

Doesn’t seem to be able to hold the ball up

He’s one of those modern day footballers that does everything OK, but has no standout features. Jason Lowe, but up top.

If you where going to play to his strengths,  what would you need to do? 

He's not lightning quick, I agree, but he's very mobile in terms of change of direction.

He's fairly average in the air, certainly not a target man.

I think his off the ball movement has been fantastic at times, not always bang on but that comes with more game time and experience.

I don't think he's had the minutes to prove the right place right time bit.

I think his finishing is one of his better traits, again maybe not had the chance to showcase it in the first time, but in pre-season and at youth level he showed that he can certainly finish.

Hold up play is certainly no worse than Gallagher or Hirst, and he's a good few inches shorter and a good 50+ games behind them in terms of experience.

 

To play to his strengths I think you just have to give him more game time. Get him back out on a loan, or utilise him better in the first team. He's never going to be a 25 goal a season striker, but I'd place him above Hirst personally, who's seemingly worth £4-5m.. somehow.

[lraC]

1 hour ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

 

I think pony is putting it a bit strongly. But there's no doubt that he's struggled to make an impact on the (admittedly few) league games that he has played in. Some nice touches in here and there, but usually I've come away thinking that he's not been able to get in the game. 

 

Maybe more first team experience will do him the world of good, but as was mentioned on another thread, he turns 22 this season, so he can't really be judged as a young lad for too much longer. 

I'm not suggesting he will be anything like, but many will remember similar comments about Simon Garner, before he broke into the team properly. We came very close to selling him and it was only him insisting that he stayed and fought for a place that stopped the sale going through.

It is amazing how some things turn out, given a bit of patience.

[only2garners]

I didn’t see Vale in any pre-season games and I didn’t see anything to be excited about in his league games. But I thought in his cameo on Saturday that he did everything right given the game situation. But it’s way too early for me to have a considered long term view.

[Butty]

2 hours ago, J*B said:

From what I've seen of Vale I doubt he ever scores in our colours, he looks absolutely pony. 

I agree Josh, quite amazed he got a new deal in all honesty. 

[roversfan99]

You can't judge a player in pre-season either, purely fitness exercises, cobbled together teams with constant changes played at a really slow pace. 

Travis shouldn't be at right back/right wing back either, his performance there v Bristol City was as bad a performance as anyone has put in all season, just above Vale at Reading, he isn't suited to playing there and as a wing back, he would not be suitable defensively or offensively in that role. We left ourselves short in both full back positions in the summer, but surely Carter is the natural alternative having played there before? He can't attack so the question then is do you go to a back 4 or just stick with a very defensive back 5?

[roverstdt]

Not sure if Ayala is fit or not if he isn't i would go with:

 

---------------------Kaminski--------------

Carter---Philips--Hyam---Wharton--Pickering

--------Morton-------Travis------Wharton

------------Gallagher----Diaz

 

[tomphil]

Certainly not writing him off and the fact he works hard is good but Vale should never be anywhere near it before Dack.

I think he needs a loan again to get back amongst the goals and work on that side of things at a lower level.  I'm not a fan of what seems to be becoming the go to routine of chucking him on with Dolan for BBD/SG after 80 mins every game.

Ok if we are 3 or 4 up but JDT needs to start thinking a little bit more creatively than that long term we won't be hanging onto leads till 95 mins every week.

[joey_big_nose]

22 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Certainly not writing him off and the fact he works hard is good but Vale should never be anywhere near it before Dack.

I think he needs a loan again to get back amongst the goals and work on that side of things at a lower level.  I'm not a fan of what seems to be becoming the go to routine of chucking him on with Dolan for BBD/SG after 80 mins every game.

Ok if we are 3 or 4 up but JDT needs to start thinking a little bit more creatively than that long term we won't be hanging onto leads till 95 mins every week.

Yeah.... I really like the 352, but the big losers are players like Dolan, Vale, Markanday, Szmodics in terms of their wide striker roles being dropped.  Szmodics has adapted really well to dropping into midfield, but I don't think the other three can do that. So it's hard to see where Dolan, Vale, Markanday feature...

Could go for a "little and large" combo up front maybe in a two? Start BBD and Dolan, and then change them over for Gallagher and Vale/Markanday? But then.... why not just start the two players who score regularly and seem to play well in a two together (BDD and Gally). 

The issue is when BBD and Gally are knackered, and we end up bringing on Val and Dolan there is very little chance the ball sticks and it's all one way traffic. Hirst is supposed to b the target man backup for Gally and BBD, but he has really struggled so far. Tis a challenge. We probably need to shift one of Dolan, Vale, Markanday in Jan and get a proper central striker if Hirst doesnt come good.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

You can't judge a player in pre-season either, purely fitness exercises, cobbled together teams with constant changes played at a really slow pace. 

The Accrington friendlies weren't slow paced at all and plenty of tackles going in.  

[JacknOry]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

of course I have seen Hirst in a Rovers shirt thanks. Like I said time after time, I think Hirst will come good and prove plenty of people on wrong. I've not given up on him yet

Given up on Dack though. 

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, joey_big_nose said:

Yeah.... I really like the 352, but the big losers are players like Dolan, Vale, Markanday, Szmodics in terms of their wide striker roles being dropped.  Szmodics has adapted really well to dropping into midfield, but I don't think the other three can do that. So it's hard to see where Dolan, Vale, Markanday feature...

Could go for a "little and large" combo up front maybe in a two? Start BBD and Dolan, and then change them over for Gallagher and Vale/Markanday? But then.... why not just start the two players who score regularly and seem to play well in a two together (BDD and Gally). 

The issue is when BBD and Gally are knackered, and we end up bringing on Val and Dolan there is very little chance the ball sticks and it's all one way traffic. Hirst is supposed to b the target man backup for Gally and BBD, but he has really struggled so far. Tis a challenge. We probably need to shift one of Dolan, Vale, Markanday in Jan and get a proper central striker if Hirst doesnt come good.

Mowbray seemed allergic to having a central striker or target man anywhere in his squad once Grahams time was done.So hopefully this regime sees the need for one in this division.

I think we've seen from one or two other teams how these types of players can still be important, they give an outlet up top and give opposition something else to think about.

[Waggy76]

5 hours ago, lraC said:

I'm not suggesting he will be anything like, but many will remember similar comments about Simon Garner, before he broke into the team properly. We came very close to selling him and it was only him insisting that he stayed and fought for a place that stopped the sale going through.

It is amazing how some things turn out, given a bit of patience.

Thats very true but Simon Garner  initially scored a few goals.....Then lost is way and then came back  towards the end of the promotion year ..ie Chesterfield away ..

[Miller11]

I haven’t been impressed with any of our stand in right wing backs, so with Hedges and Brittain looking like they are out I’d try another. Either Dolan or Pickering (with Mola coming in on the left).

Whatever happened to Dan Pike?