Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

4 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Let's not forget Barnsley new manager who's doing a fantastic job. 

All the people saying "Well if Mowbray went who would you replace him with" it's an absolutely awful counter argument. 

Bet those asking for that had no idea who the Reading or Barnsley managers were beforehand.

Do you have confidence that Venkys would employ a quality manager if Mowbray was sacked? They've been here over 10 years and they haven't yet...in fact quite the opposite, they've employed some of the, worst managers we've ever had. 

[Mercer]

25 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

How did we "unconvincingly" limp home in Division 1 - we got club record numbers for points and wins.

Mowbray didn't take us down with 22 points from 15 games - Coyle did with 29 points from 31 games.

If Mowbray is so bad why do you keep placing bets on his team to win ?

IMO, and based upon the many matches I saw spanning our time in that division under Mowbray, Kendall, Lee and Furphy, I would say the season we were there with Mowbray was far less competitive than the seasons under previous managers.  I think the standard was very poor and most matches were won in a canter.  Think Wigan and Rovers finished about 10 points ahead of third placed Shrewsbury and some 20 points ahead of fourth place - evidence of just how relatively uncompetitive the league was - and I am almost certain you would not see such extreme margins in the promotion seasons under Lee and Kendall even when adjusting for 3 points / win instead of the then 2 points / win.

Mowbray took us down - full stop.  He was appointed to keep us up (his words) and he failed.

O'Neill kept Stoke up and Warnock kept M'boro up and they succeeded in what they were brought in to do.

Facts don't lie.

Why do I place bets on Rovers to win?  Firstly, I've supported Rovers home, away and in Europe for some 60 years, and sadly, sometimes my heart rules my head!  However, I look at some  of the players we have who are capable of winning matches for us and we should be doing far, far better - as Souey used to say, it's the 'big players' who win the matches for you.  IMO, Mowbray should be doing far, far better given the players he has, just as Bowyer should have done far, far better given the talent he had at his disposal.

[JacknOry]

5 hours ago, jasprovers said:

Maybe I have. I understand everyone's point of view. Some bad decisions have been made, but the amount of loan players we bring in is down to us not being able to bring in transfers due to lack of funds. We've tried over the last 4 years to bring players in but have been priced out and have had to resort to bringing in loans. Most recently with Pickering and Kipre, in the past we tried to sign the likes of Mcgin. We've had to settle for Ayala and Douglas. I believe Downing was signed with the thought of a lack of leaders and to add experience to a very young dressing room after the loss of Graham and Mulgrew in the dressing room. You can't say Lenihan is a leader. Maybe he will improve now he seems to have a defensive partner he can trust but we're yet to see Lenihan act as a captain. 

I agree that money was wasted both on Breo and Gallagher, but the improvement in Breo this season has made me question whether at some point he will come through and show he is worth the price we paid for him. Gallagher has regressed yes, his touch is terrible. 

Of course I want Rovers to be back in the Prem, I would rather just go up as a team that dominates games can keep hold of the ball and can sustain itself within the Prem. I understand we need the money from being promoted. But wouldn't everyone prefer that if we were to go up that we would stay up rather than being an up and down yoyo team. 

Since being relegated from the prem, the future hasn't looked so bright for Rovers. I don't think there has been a season where I have been excited to watch Rovers every game. I know things have been dire recently but I am still excited by the prospect of having a team with a fully fit Dack and Travis in. We cant rely on Johnson to do a job every week in midfield or defence. I am excited by the likes of Armstrong, Nyambe, Rothwell, Breo, and Buckley (I know he's weak at the moment but he'll get stronger and more powerful). 

I would give TM till the end of the season to make a real push for promotion. Anything outside the top 8 is a failure. Even if we were just to miss out on the playoffs. I believe the likes of Arma, Rothwell and Nyambe would be convinced to stay if Mowbray stayed. I think we're at greater risk of losing them and not being able to bring players if we get rid of Mowbray now. 

Going up is worth 100+ million to the club. I don't get people like you that say they do not want to go up as we will come straight back down. if we do, we have taken a chunk out of our debt, will have a better squad equipped to go back up again - look at Burnley and how they have done it (pains me to say).

Most clubs promoted will struggle, thats just how it is. You cannot expect to go up and have it easy.

[JacknOry]

5 hours ago, jasprovers said:

Nyambe should play more and be at right back every week IMO, I think he misses games due to injury or being away with Namibia more than TM leaving him out. Travis was a certain starter every week before his injury, he will back in the side fully fit every game before the end of the season. Davenports time will come, this issue is that we've gone from playing 5 in the middle to 3 in the middle, so it has become harder to fit midfielders into the side. Armstrong can have eyes elsewhere but we all know his relationship with Mowbray and will leave in the summer if we have a new manager. Lenihan has regressed because he runs round like a headless chicken every game because he doesn't trust his centre back partners, it will change with Branthwaite. 

Without TM we wouldn't have been able to bring in Elliot or Branthwaite on loan. We try to sign players permanently but are priced out so have to resort for loans if it wasn't for TM's style of football this season or reputation neither would have joined. Elliot has shown more promise than any other player. Branthwaite looks like he's got a cool head on his shoulders at the back, which we have been missing since Tosin left. 

We would not be able to buy players or get players on loan from big Prem teams if for example Ainsworth was in charge. 

Wow, quite a lot of assumptions there stated as fact.

TM is the only manager in the world that can loan Ellilott?

Armstrong will loves TM that much that he will leave if TM is not manager? Does that mean that Armstrong will stay should TM still be manager and a big bid comes in?

Ainsworth is banned from speaking to PL clubs and attempting to loan their players?

 

[rigger]

1 hour ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Do you have confidence that Venkys would employ a quality manager if Mowbray was sacked? They've been here over 10 years and they haven't yet...in fact quite the opposite, they've employed some of the, worst managers we've ever had. 

They employed Mowbray so I get your point

[Mercer]

6 hours ago, jasprovers said:

Maybe I have. I understand everyone's point of view. Some bad decisions have been made, but the amount of loan players we bring in is down to us not being able to bring in transfers due to lack of funds. We've tried over the last 4 years to bring players in but have been priced out and have had to resort to bringing in loans. Most recently with Pickering and Kipre, in the past we tried to sign the likes of Mcgin. We've had to settle for Ayala and Douglas. I believe Downing was signed with the thought of a lack of leaders and to add experience to a very young dressing room after the loss of Graham and Mulgrew in the dressing room. You can't say Lenihan is a leader. Maybe he will improve now he seems to have a defensive partner he can trust but we're yet to see Lenihan act as a captain. 

I agree that money was wasted both on Breo and Gallagher, but the improvement in Breo this season has made me question whether at some point he will come through and show he is worth the price we paid for him. Gallagher has regressed yes, his touch is terrible. 

Of course I want Rovers to be back in the Prem, I would rather just go up as a team that dominates games can keep hold of the ball and can sustain itself within the Prem. I understand we need the money from being promoted. But wouldn't everyone prefer that if we were to go up that we would stay up rather than being an up and down yoyo team. 

Since being relegated from the prem, the future hasn't looked so bright for Rovers. I don't think there has been a season where I have been excited to watch Rovers every game. I know things have been dire recently but I am still excited by the prospect of having a team with a fully fit Dack and Travis in. We cant rely on Johnson to do a job every week in midfield or defence. I am excited by the likes of Armstrong, Nyambe, Rothwell, Breo, and Buckley (I know he's weak at the moment but he'll get stronger and more powerful). 

I would give TM till the end of the season to make a real push for promotion. Anything outside the top 8 is a failure. Even if we were just to miss out on the playoffs. I believe the likes of Arma, Rothwell and Nyambe would be convinced to stay if Mowbray stayed. I think we're at greater risk of losing them and not being able to bring players if we get rid of Mowbray now. 

You talk about lack of funds!

Who spunked £12million+ up the wall on fees for Brereton and Gallagher, not to mention their wages and these two lads were sat on the bench on Saturday!

I also think it's nonsense to suggest we couldn't attract the likes of Elliott if it were not for Mowbray.  Similarly, to state we would be at greater risk of losing likes of Armstrong if Mowbray were to leave is, IMO, a bit of a stretch!

As for Mowbray's footballing philosophy - I've seen some of the worse football ever from a Rovers' side under Mowbray's tenure.  IMO, Mowbray's philosophy is all a bit of a myth as I believe what I see with my own eyes and in the main the football has been dire.  To think some criticised Big Sam's style!

 

[rigger]

2 minutes ago, Mercer said:

You talk about lack of funds!

Who spunked £12million+ up the wall on fees for Brereton and Gallagher, not to mention their wages and these two lads were sat on the bench on Saturday!

I also think it's nonsense to suggest we couldn't attract the likes of Elliott if it were not for Mowbray.  Similarly, to state we would be at greater risk of losing likes of Armstrong if Mowbray were to leave is, IMO, a bit of a stretch!

As for Mowbray's footballing philosophy - I've seen some of the worse football ever from a Rovers' side under Mowbray's tenure.  IMO, Mowbray's philosophy is all a bit of a myth as I believe what I see with my own eyes and in the main the football has been dire.  To think some criticised Big Sam's style!

 

If Mowbray worked to this so called football philosophy, it would be based around a pitch with a good surface.

[Riverside under the drip]

The pitch is an irrelevance. It is an issue for a couple of games. Just like an injury is an excuse that soon goes. There is always an excuse; always a reason why the journey isn't over yet and the manager needs another transfer window.

There were those who insisted he should be given until January. Not this January. 2 years ago. The same points were made then as now. When will these people admit things have not worked and will not work out if he gets another 2 years?

[DeeCee]

We seem to loan in up and coming players, Tosin, Reed, the Everton kid, yet we sign other teams cast offs, Downing, Ayala, Johnson, etc, talk about arse about face! The suggestion that we sign Keogh is just another sticking plaster on a missing limb.

We should have been all over the Crewe lad, Whiteman, and the other left sided player from QPR (?) whose name I forget (I've not been up long) talk about regression, hardly surprising with the dinosaur in charge.

Mowbray out!

[philipl]

I am wondering about my eyesight if anybody thinks what is happening is ok.

For the last couple of months it hasn't mattered who we are playing or what our team is, I see 11 individuals wearing Rovers shirts wondering where the other 10 are. Passing is pedestrian at best.

Even Rotherham were more fluid and fluent than us.

They instinctively knew where another Rotherham player was going to be. 

Rovers are vastly better players but simply not properly organised or instructed.

Is that Mowbray's responsibility to sort that out or isn't it?

If you agree with me that it is Mowbray's job then it follows he is now rubbish at it.

Edited January 18, 2021 by philipl

[simongarnerisgod]

tony`s big problem is his lack of coaching ability to get his message across to a bunch of players who have given up on him,once you lose the dressing room you never get the respect back, beside the fact i doubt it very much if he listens to his backroom staff at all,this possesion based lark is ok some of the time but you have to mix your approach up ,at the moment every side in the division has us clocked,knowing mowbray though he`ll get desperate,do an about turn and make us a long ball side with armstrong up front on his own with  big gally still plowing his furrough down the wing,that would be so mowbray!!!!!!!!!

[Leonard Venkhater]

16 minutes ago, philipl said:

I am wondering about my eyesight if anybody thinks what is happening is ok.

For the last couple of months it hasn't mattered who we are playing or what our team is, I see 11 individuals wearing Rovers shirts wondering where the other 10 are. Passing is pedestrian at best.

Even Rotherham were more fluid and fluent than us.

They instinctively knew where another Rotherham player was going to be. 

Rovers are vastly better players but simply not properly organised or instructed.

Is that Mowbray's responsibility to sort that out or isn't it?

If you agree with me that it is Mowbray's job then it follows he is now rubbish at it.

Every team seems more fluid and fluent than our disjointed team of crabs and backpassers.....

 

[RoversClitheroe]

2 hours ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Do you have confidence that Venkys would employ a quality manager if Mowbray was sacked? They've been here over 10 years and they haven't yet...in fact quite the opposite, they've employed some of the, worst managers we've ever had. 

Have to believe that they would get an improvement as they learn more. 

If there isn't that belief then, what is the point of supporting Rovers? 

I have the belief that we can get a manager in who will put this team in the position they should be and that's Top 6.

[Mashed Potatoes]

2 hours ago, Mercer said:

IMO, and based upon the many matches I saw spanning our time in that division under Mowbray, Kendall, Lee and Furphy, I would say the season we were there with Mowbray was far less competitive than the seasons under previous managers.  I think the standard was very poor and most matches were won in a canter.  Think Wigan and Rovers finished about 10 points ahead of third placed Shrewsbury and some 20 points ahead of fourth place - evidence of just how relatively uncompetitive the league was - and I am almost certain you would not see such extreme margins in the promotion seasons under Lee and Kendall even when adjusting for 3 points / win instead of the then 2 points / win.

Mowbray took us down - full stop.  He was appointed to keep us up (his words) and he failed.

O'Neill kept Stoke up and Warnock kept M'boro up and they succeeded in what they were brought in to do.

Facts don't lie.

Why do I place bets on Rovers to win?  Firstly, I've supported Rovers home, away and in Europe for some 60 years, and sadly, sometimes my heart rules my head!  However, I look at some  of the players we have who are capable of winning matches for us and we should be doing far, far better - as Souey used to say, it's the 'big players' who win the matches for you.  IMO, Mowbray should be doing far, far better given the players he has, just as Bowyer should have done far, far better given the talent he had at his disposal.

O'Neill took over Stoke with 31 games to play so had plenty of time to turn things around. Warnock took over Middlesbrough with them outside the relegation zone. In contrast Mowbray had 15 games in which to save a team that were 23rd.

The facts don't lie.

[Ewood Ace]

5 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

O'Neill took over Stoke with 31 games to play so had plenty of time to turn things around. Warnock took over Middlesbrough with them outside the relegation zone. In contrast Mowbray had 15 games in which to save a team that were 23rd.

The facts don't lie.

You were very confident though that Warnock would take Middlesbrough down, yet he managed to guide them to 17th in the end. Also that 'old man' has taken his side from heading for relegation to above the Teeside Messiah in the space of 6 months. If he's a 'has been' what does that make the Teeside Messiah?

On 06/07/2020 at 21:12, Mashed Potatoes said:

Warnock is an old man who is heading for  a second successive relegation unless the 12 point deduction rule gets him off the hook. Should call it a day whilst people still hold him in high regard.

 

On 06/07/2020 at 21:04, Mashed Potatoes said:

Has been. Relying on 12 point deduction for another club to avoid relegation.

 

[Mashed Potatoes]

8 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

You were very confident though that Warnock would take Middlesbrough down, yet he managed to guide them to 17th in the end. Also that 'old man' has taken his side from heading for relegation to above the Teeside Messiah in the space of 6 months. If he's a 'has been' what does that make the Teeside Messiah?

 

 

Irrelevant.

[Blue blood]

2 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Irrelevant.

None of that is irrelevant actually. 

And whilst I would agree TM had a tough gig trying to save us from relegation the uncomfortable fact is O'Neill and Warnock have turned their clubs round in a fraction of the time TM has. Also (and it seems by your own post you thought similarly) Boro were in a horrific mess when Warnock took over. 

I'm also a tad bemused how Warnock is a has been whilst TM is the man for us. In the past few years off the top of my head he has saved Boro from relegation and got them at the right end of the table, got promoted with Cardiff and saved Rotherham from relegation (one of his best achievements imo). Even before you factor in his other work his record is far superior to TMs. 

 

[LDRover]

10 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Irrelevant.

The facts don't lie.

Unless they go against your opinion and then they're irrelevant.

[Mashed Potatoes]

1 minute ago, Blue blood said:

None of that is irrelevant actually. 

And whilst I would agree TM had a tough gig trying to save us from relegation the uncomfortable fact is O'Neill and Warnock have turned their clubs round in a fraction of the time TM has. Also (and it seems by your own post you thought similarly) Boro were in a horrific mess when Warnock took over. 

I'm also a tad bemused how Warnock is a has been whilst TM is the man for us. In the past few years off the top of my head he has saved Boro from relegation and got them at the right end of the table, got promoted with Cardiff and saved Rotherham from relegation (one of his best achievements imo). Even before you factor in his other work his record is far superior to TMs. 

 

Thanks for being polite with your reply.

My posts were more trying to point out to Mercer that the comparisons he was making were unfair regarding relegation and were in my opinion complete nonsense regarding our promotion season when you looked at the facts. I think some of the criticism of Mowbray is grotesque because frequently it is based upon that sort of bending of the facts. I also dislike the personalised abuse of him - "feck off" etc- which I think is totally undeserved. 

I actually think Warnock has a superb record as a Championship manager although I suspect he won't get Middlesbrough up this season.

[Tom]

40 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

O'Neill took over Stoke with 31 games to play so had plenty of time to turn things around. Warnock took over Middlesbrough with them outside the relegation zone. In contrast Mowbray had 15 games in which to save a team that were 23rd.

The facts don't lie.

Mowbray took over with 15 games to go and us only 3 points from safety, hardly a lost cause, we had some bad luck in that run in but threw away a few games late on (ffs Gallagher) and had some awful performances to boot, remember Barnsley at home feeling like a surrender. 

When O’Neill took over at Stoke they were 6 points adrift, he had the January window but ultimately he succeeded.

The only facts around our relegation season is we didn’t quite do enough.

As you say, the facts don’t lie.

Edited January 18, 2021 by Tom

[Mashed Potatoes]

1 minute ago, Tom said:

Mowbray took over with 15 games to go and us only 3 points from safety, hardly a lost cause, we had some bad luck but threw away a few games late on (ffs Gallagher)

When O’Neill took over at Stoke they were 6 points adrift, he had the January window but ultimately he succeeded.

The only facts around our relegation season is we didn’t quite do enough.

As you say, the facts don’t lie.

As you say, the facts don't lie - the 51 points we got in our relegation season would have kept us up last season.

My posts are designed to show that Mowbray should not be blamed for our relegation. He achieved a 50% improvement on his predecessor in our points per game return; in no walk of life does a manager who achieves that with the same resources as before get described as having "failed". 

[gumboots]

So can we blame him for our rubbish performances this season? Whatever he did or didn't do at the start of his tenure, he's doing poorly now

[Silas]

3 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

My posts are designed to show that Mowbray should not be blamed for our relegation. He achieved a 50% improvement on his predecessor in our points per game return; in no walk of life does a manager who achieves that with the same resources as before get described as having "failed". 

I agree, relegation can't be put on Mowbray's head.

But I was just about to say similar to Gumboots. What about now?

If we fail to reach his target of top 6 (and imo we will miss it by a country mile), will he have "failed" then? 

[Mashed Potatoes]

1 minute ago, Silas said:

I agree, relegation can't be put on Mowbray's head.

But I was just about to say similar to Gumboots. What about now?

If we fail to reach his target of top 6 (and imo we will miss it by a country mile), will he have "failed" then? 

It will have been disappointing -yes.

[47er]

15 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

It will have been disappointing -yes.

Is that all? We don't do anything about it?